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Actually been thinking about running a variation with
5x D
1x HD + 2x D
1x HD + 2x D
3x HD
That way I've got one specialist unit for 3+ saves and one for 2+ saves/armor, and two jack-of-all-trades units to run as backup for each if needed, as well as threatening anything in a pretty large bubble.

What point level do you guys play at with these destroyer cults? I tried to put together a list with the cult and I couldn't fit much outside of a naked decurion.

Hoping I will get to proxy test these dudes soon. Still hoping that a tomb blade and destroyer heavy army could be good. I wouldn't mind a fast shooty army.

I ran one at Adepticon, so 1850.

I agree though. The 6D6H setup with Warscythe/Phase Shifter DLord is 695, so it's a big chunk of an army. I feel like it's designed for people who want to make "Destroyer Armies", that is, centrally about Destroyers and the rest of your points supporting that with cheaper bodies/number of attack units (Warriors, Flayed Ones). At 1000 or lower, you either can't run the formation, or you have to play it with less Heavies.

Overall worthwhile, I think, as the bonus is amazing. All that rerolling is top notch.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
What point level do you guys play at with these destroyer cults? I tried to put together a list with the cult and I couldn't fit much outside of a naked decurion.

Hoping I will get to proxy test these dudes soon. Still hoping that a tomb blade and destroyer heavy army could be good. I wouldn't mind a fast shooty army.

I fit the cult into 1500 and 2000 point armies, both are decurions. Have to run the reclamation legions pretty thin, but they still do well at its minimum. Though I do find a harvest required so the destroyer lord has something to do, still you can fit a destroyer cult a harvest and a reclamation legion into 1500pts for your decurion and just work up from there.

So I'm not sure how yall run the lychguard star but I was considering doing a lychguard squad (7 man) with a destroyer lord, Zahndrekh, two plain lords (one with a veil and both with warscythes), orikan, and a cryptek with the solar staff. I wanted to DS it into their lines turn one, pop the pulse at the start of their turn to protect from blast/templates (if needed), and just cause a whole lot of disruption. Maybe force them to fan out and come closer to my lines so my warriors shots are more effective. In Maelstrom I think this could cause some havoc for them. What do yall think?

Everybodies losing their minds over the Eldar all Jetbikes have ST6 weapons and I'm like , Okay cool let me just put these 2 Squads of 10 Tomb Blades on the table from the Decurion Detachment. Enjoy chewing threw 3+ , 4+ T5 .

 Chosen Praetorian wrote:
So I'm not sure how yall run the lychguard star but I was considering doing a lychguard squad (7 man) with a destroyer lord, Zahndrekh, two plain lords (one with a veil and both with warscythes), orikan, and a cryptek with the solar staff. I wanted to DS it into their lines turn one, pop the pulse at the start of their turn to protect from blast/templates (if needed), and just cause a whole lot of disruption. Maybe force them to fan out and come closer to my lines so my warriors shots are more effective. In Maelstrom I think this could cause some havoc for them. What do yall think?

I don't tend to use the Veil (or Obyron's Mantle) that often, as I'm usually afraid of mishaps. Especially on a unit that expensive and important. but, if you're careful with it, the results can be absolutely entertaining.

I usually take a similar loadout minus the Cryptek and march it up the table. It basically creates a wall of inevitable advance, something that they either need to pour an insane amount of shooting into or just keep running from.

Honestly my current worry with Eldar is that they will go from one horrible annoyance (serpent shields and scatter lasers) to another annoyance (strength D all over)
S6? No worries.

Also, I can't wait to get more tomb blades.

Hollismason wrote:
Everybodies losing their minds over the Eldar all Jetbikes have ST6 weapons and I'm like , Okay cool let me just put these 2 Squads of 10 Tomb Blades on the table from the Decurion Detachment. Enjoy chewing threw 3+ , 4+ T5 .

10 Jetbikes with Scatter Lasers will kill 3 Tomb Blades on average without buffs. With Guide they'll kill 4. All from 36" away and a 2d6" move in the assault phase.

10 Tomb Blades shooting at eldar jetbikes from 12" away will kill 4 while only killing 2 from 24" away. They do not have an extra move in the assault phase.

This is also assuming the Tomb Blades are in a Decurion for 4+++.

That's actually a pretty even matchup considering the Jetbikes will cost 5 more ppm.

What people are really freaking out about this though is that Eldar Jetbikes are TROOPS choices with Objective Secured so there's no need to tax yourself with other units. Hell, anyone can take an allied detachment with a Jetseer and 10 Jetbikes and just have them be a roaming volume of fire unit.

I think your math is a little off , did you calculate the reroll 1s.

The reroll 1s for the decurion? No I didnt calculate that. It might shift the numbers a little but it'll still average the same total.

It won't matter what the tomblades have when they get vaporized by D shots from the WK.

The new eldar are going to be a tough counter - the WK is a gargantuan creature, and the jetbikes are objsec psykers with a lot of shots and jink saves.

We have not even seen what Kelly has done to the rest of his favorite book yet (if only he loved the ctan....).

Back to other conversation....

I have found the decurion to be incredibly restricting and giving me LESS flexibility in my lists. As pointed out before, the destroyer cult is a LOT of points, and does not leave a lot of room for other stuff.

I love the 4+++ but am going to see how well some CAD lists do...for those times I just want 3 destroyers and maybe a second stalker.

davethepak wrote:
It won't matter what the tomblades have when they get vaporized by D shots from the WK.

The new eldar are going to be a tough counter - the WK is a gargantuan creature, and the jetbikes are objsec psykers with a lot of shots and jink saves.

We have not even seen what Kelly has done to the rest of his favorite book yet (if only he loved the ctan....).

Back to other conversation....

I have found the decurion to be incredibly restricting and giving me LESS flexibility in my lists. As pointed out before, the destroyer cult is a LOT of points, and does not leave a lot of room for other stuff.

I love the 4+++ but am going to see how well some CAD lists do...for those times I just want 3 destroyers and maybe a second stalker.

Best hard counter for the Wraithknight is still gonna be the Conclave. Should be easy to whittle the wounds down.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

davethepak wrote:
It won't matter what the tomblades have when they get vaporized by D shots from the WK.

The new eldar are going to be a tough counter - the WK is a gargantuan creature, and the jetbikes are objsec psykers with a lot of shots and jink saves.

We have not even seen what Kelly has done to the rest of his favorite book yet (if only he loved the ctan....).

Back to other conversation....

I have found the decurion to be incredibly restricting and giving me LESS flexibility in my lists. As pointed out before, the destroyer cult is a LOT of points, and does not leave a lot of room for other stuff.

I love the 4+++ but am going to see how well some CAD lists do...for those times I just want 3 destroyers and maybe a second stalker.

Best hard counter for the Wraithknight is still gonna be the Conclave. Should be easy to whittle the wounds down.

In all sincerity sir, is this an attempt at sarcasm? I hope it is, because if so, its pretty funny. If not....well, lets just say it does not meet my experience with the conclave.
(the new WK has either D ranged shots, or D CC attacks, neither of which a conclave can stand up to).

I suspect the counter to the WK will be guass spam, and hope for sixes and failed saves. Heck, in that regard, might even be easier to kill than a riptide/Dk etc.
It just might be difficult to get into rapid fire range, depending up the mobility of the new WK and the weapon ranges.

Tomblades with ignores cover will help against the eldar jetbikes, but have to wait and see what surprises the rest of the book has in store.

Yeah, no need for the sky is falling reactions just yet. We can't build tactical ideas with scraps of information.

I have a rematch with my 'crons against my housemate on sunday - he's going to try some Grey Knights/Inquisitors (proxied). I ran deathstar/decurion + deathmarks last time (2x 10 warriors/GA, 2x 5 immortals/NS, minimum tomb blades).

I have no idea what will happen, although I am guessing he's running GK so he can force death my crons/psychic phase me to death.

I don't have many options yet, though I do have a canoptek harvest built (6 wraiths) - do you think this might be worth it over the deathstar? (clearly he wants to get me into cc where his force weapons will murderise me).

I played against GK/Scars a bit ago. The ONLY thing I had to deal with the DK was lychstar with shields. However he fell back, shunted and then proceeded to whoop on the rest of my army. Honestly I think wraiths might do better against them. slightly less durable, but rending and S6 will go a long way.

GK are one of the armies I just feel hopeless against with my necrons. Anything high toughness with a good save is demoralizing. I imagine once I build and run some praetorians that will change.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I played against GK/Scars a bit ago. The ONLY thing I had to deal with the DK was lychstar with shields. However he fell back, shunted and then proceeded to whoop on the rest of my army. Honestly I think wraiths might do better against them. slightly less durable, but rending and S6 will go a long way.

GK are one of the armies I just feel hopeless against with my necrons. Anything high toughness with a good save is demoralizing. I imagine once I build and run some praetorians that will change.

Hm, how did he fall back with the Dreadknight?

Either way, the ability to kill a Dreadknight in Assault largely depends on how many Warscythes are there with him, otherwise the only real other options are C'Tan, Wraiths, or massed Praetorians (have to make sure to have enough to weather him going first). Most everything else will just get wrecked by him.

From a range we really just have Heavy Destroyers. Praetorians do well, and you can get lucky with Beamer Wraiths, though that's expensive and often wasted.

I'm really considering getting Sentry Pylons. Death Ray ones are relatively cheap on points and could deal with a lot of things the rest of our army struggles with. Heat Ray ones are super expensive, but are basically the best artillery our army can get (especially since Artillery > Vehicles in basically all situations). Either would be a nice source of long range AP2 or better weaponry.

Would it be worth me putting warscythe on a CCB and trying to go toe-to-toe with one?

My lychguard are currently sword/shield, but I have obyron and orikan in the unit (plus zahndrek, but he just has a staff).

I do have a canoptek harvest built with 6 wraiths (3 whipcoils, 3 beamers). Obviously I'd have to drop nightscythes, deathstar or ghost arks to fit them in :/

edit: technically I could just proxy, as his entire army will be, but I don't want to list-build too heavily. I might just run the list as is, but I anticipate getting thrashed... he's claiming he chose grey knights 'just because', but I suspect he's smarting a bit as I've either won or drawn the last three games and he needs a victory to feel better about the game

actually considering audible into my nids, as shadow in the warp could be funny versus him >_<

zerosignal wrote:
Would it be worth me putting warscythe on a CCB and trying to go toe-to-toe with one?

My lychguard are currently sword/shield, but I have obyron and orikan in the unit (plus zahndrek, but he just has a staff).

I do have a canoptek harvest built with 6 wraiths (3 whipcoils, 3 beamers). Obviously I'd have to drop nightscythes, deathstar or ghost arks to fit them in :/

Warscythe CCB would get wrecked by a Dreadknight. With the Hammer or Powerfists, it hits at S10 with 3 attacks, 4 on the charge. If it just puts them on the vehicle, it has a 50% to pen and a 1/3 to just explode. If it puts it on the Overlord, they're ID, so any failed wound (only a 4++/5+++) will kill him outright.

Again, CCBs need to be very careful about what targets they engage.

Again, CCBs need to be very careful about what targets they engage.

I second that, I was playing with one a few days ago, first time with it in new dex, I forgot one major issue, In CC he gets wrecked by powerswords, I remembered he didnt have a 2 up after i made the charge and went, "right so what are you attacking?" , "the lord.... with AP3 powerswords"

Well, I think I want to try out the canoptek harvest, as I have the models built, so I'll probably downgrade my CCB to a bare overlord. I'll probably keep the deathstar character-lychguard in the interests of not list-tailoring, although I can see that the points investment may just not be worth it. It should be an interesting game... I fully expect to get thrashed, as I don't have the GK codex and really have no idea what they are capable of. At best I suspect I should try to keep them at range and drown them in gauss/tesla shots...

Requizen wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I played against GK/Scars a bit ago. The ONLY thing I had to deal with the DK was lychstar with shields. However he fell back, shunted and then proceeded to whoop on the rest of my army. Honestly I think wraiths might do better against them. slightly less durable, but rending and S6 will go a long way.

GK are one of the armies I just feel hopeless against with my necrons. Anything high toughness with a good save is demoralizing. I imagine once I build and run some praetorians that will change.

Hm, how did he fall back with the Dreadknight?

Either way, the ability to kill a Dreadknight in Assault largely depends on how many Warscythes are there with him, otherwise the only real other options are C'Tan, Wraiths, or massed Praetorians (have to make sure to have enough to weather him going first). Most everything else will just get wrecked by him.

From a range we really just have Heavy Destroyers. Praetorians do well, and you can get lucky with Beamer Wraiths, though that's expensive and often wasted.

I'm really considering getting Sentry Pylons. Death Ray ones are relatively cheap on points and could deal with a lot of things the rest of our army struggles with. Heat Ray ones are super expensive, but are basically the best artillery our army can get (especially since Artillery > Vehicles in basically all situations). Either would be a nice source of long range AP2 or better weaponry.

Are DKs fearless? He just failed his moral and fell back. Looking back on the game, he did moral wrong, but I didn't call him on it. If I had the game might have been different.

On the topic of sentry pylons, I just got one in the mail. Death ray variant. Obviously the old rules are the busted has hell old death ray, but this one hits twice for gaks and giggles. Heat ray is what I was thinking, as there wouldn't be any 10 min lectures on how the death ray works (as that happened every time I used a death ray with the old book).

Wait wouldn't the Deathmarks be a hard counter for Wraithknights?

Even though it is Gargantuan and sniper wounds on a 6+ , their special rule is they wound on a 2+ regardless.

Destroyer Lord + Deathmarks deep striking?

Rerolling 1s to hit with Preferred , Rerolling 1s with the 2+. Plus if it is a D Weapon carrying Wraithknight you'd get the AP2 on 6s so that'd just be 3+ and then the Feel No Pain.

Don't think it is mathmatically possible though to kill in one turn though.

A Destroyer Lord will in fact tank ST6 shooting all day long.

The problem is the bikes. Really when not even Decurion Necrons are tough enough we have a problem.

gwarsh41 wrote:

Requizen wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:
I played against GK/Scars a bit ago. The ONLY thing I had to deal with the DK was lychstar with shields. However he fell back, shunted and then proceeded to whoop on the rest of my army. Honestly I think wraiths might do better against them. slightly less durable, but rending and S6 will go a long way.

GK are one of the armies I just feel hopeless against with my necrons. Anything high toughness with a good save is demoralizing. I imagine once I build and run some praetorians that will change.

Hm, how did he fall back with the Dreadknight?

Either way, the ability to kill a Dreadknight in Assault largely depends on how many Warscythes are there with him, otherwise the only real other options are C'Tan, Wraiths, or massed Praetorians (have to make sure to have enough to weather him going first). Most everything else will just get wrecked by him.

From a range we really just have Heavy Destroyers. Praetorians do well, and you can get lucky with Beamer Wraiths, though that's expensive and often wasted.

I'm really considering getting Sentry Pylons. Death Ray ones are relatively cheap on points and could deal with a lot of things the rest of our army struggles with. Heat Ray ones are super expensive, but are basically the best artillery our army can get (especially since Artillery > Vehicles in basically all situations). Either would be a nice source of long range AP2 or better weaponry.

Are DKs fearless? He just failed his moral and fell back. Looking back on the game, he did moral wrong, but I didn't call him on it. If I had the game might have been different.

On the topic of sentry pylons, I just got one in the mail. Death ray variant. Obviously the old rules are the busted has hell old death ray, but this one hits twice for gaks and giggles. Heat ray is what I was thinking, as there wouldn't be any 10 min lectures on how the death ray works (as that happened every time I used a death ray with the old book).

Huh, just looked it up, DKs aren't Fearless. That makes sense now. Wraiths are indeed a bit more reliable in that situation - not for surviving or killing, but for the fact that they can keep up with and catch the Dreadknight even if it jumps away or what not. Lychguard would have a bear of a time getting to a Jump Dreadknight that doesn't want to be caught.

Let me know how the Sentry Pylons work out, I'm seriously considering creating a conversion for them out of a Ghost Ark.

Hollismason wrote:Wait wouldn't the Deathmarks be a hard counter for Wraithknights?

Even though it is Gargantuan and sniper wounds on a 6+ , their special rule is they wound on a 2+ regardless.

Destroyer Lord + Deathmarks deep striking?

Rerolling 1s to hit with Preferred , Rerolling 1s with the 2+. Plus if it is a D Weapon carrying Wraithknight you'd get the AP2 on 6s so that'd just be 3+ and then the Feel No Pain.

Don't think it is mathmatically possible though to kill in one turn though.

A Destroyer Lord will in fact tank ST6 shooting all day long.

That is in fact a decent idea. Not to mention that with Sniper's AP2 on 6s you should do some decent damage if you have 10 or more Deathmarks doing their thing.

The rest of the army would have a bit of a bad time with Wraithknights. D weaponry (either ranged or melee) sucks for us. Heavy Destroyers are the only thing that reliably works against them in shooting, though Nightbringer works at least somewhat with Gaze and the possibility to roll a S9 or SD weapon. Mass Gauss can chip away at it, as can things like Scarabs with Entropic, but it's extremely difficult to drop quickly. In fact, we have a much easier time taking down 1-2 Knights per turn than we do killing a Wraithknight in a turn or two. I would be loath to get into Assault with this thing, especially with the Sword. Even a 10-man Scytheguard unit would have a hard time killing it in any reasonable amount of time, and then Stomps.

Oh well, we'lll see what works. I'm thinking that with Jetbikes and possible no-scatter Wraithguard toting D-weapons, getting my Night Scythes on the board again might be a good idea. I've shyed away from them this edition, but now I think dropping Immortals/Warriors onto Jetbikes might be a really good way to do things (especially if you can also drop a Lord/Overlord with Gauntlet of the Conflagrator at the same time).

Destroyer Lords can tank those shots if their strong enough.

Honestly looks like best counter is going to be AV13.

Dunno what the hell to do about the D-Cannons.

Hollismason wrote:
Destroyer Lords can tank those shots if their strong enough.

Honestly looks like best counter is going to be AV13.

Dunno what the hell to do about the D-Cannons.

Normal Destroyer Lords will die to 10 jetbikes a turn.

A Destroyer Lord with a 2+ will die to 20 jetbikes.

A Decurion Destroyer Lord with a 2+ will die to 27 jetbikes

But rerolleable 2+ with Orikan is still practically unkillable... well until it gets hit by a d-weapon.

 Tyran wrote:
The problem is the bikes. Really when not even Decurion Necrons are tough enough we have a problem.

Do we though? We've all seen the thread where you can have 1080 points of Scatterbikes putting out 160 shots. You know how many Warriors that kills? 22. That seems like a lot, but 22 Warriors is 286 points, so that's not a lot. And they can't hurt our vehicles. And they kill a lot less things that are T5, especially since T5 units have 3+ or better.

I'm less worried about the bikes than I am about the Wraith units, which are fairly durable and deal with our units more effectively. Jetbikes with Scatter are scary against some armies, but I don't count Necrons among them personally.

The problem is that Necrons' damage output is actually quite low compared to their resistance. That in addition to the short ranges and the absurd Eldar mobility means they will be losing most shooting match against jetbikes. And wraiths will kill anything the jetbikes can't.