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 Chosen Praetorian wrote:
Adding the heavy destroyer per unit along with the allowed unit of 3 heavy destroyers is a must. It allows you to reliably deal with Imperial Knights. With their mobility you can easily get into different arcs to negate their ion shields. I played a game recently against Knights and putting the Nightmare shroud destroyer lord in front to tank for the heavy destroyer unit keeps them alive against all the Rapid fire battle cannon shots.

Putting the DLord into the Destroyer units means that he's more or less "wasted", though. His big strengths are his Assault power and granting Preferred Enemy to his unit. Destroyers want to be nowhere near Assault, and they already have PE. So yeah, while he's good at tanking shots for them, I think he's usually better sticking in a unit of other things to give them PE or help Assault units tear through things.

Besides, Heavy Destroyers can always have a cover save thanks to Thrust Move + Move Through Cover.

Requizen wrote:

 Chosen Praetorian wrote:
Adding the heavy destroyer per unit along with the allowed unit of 3 heavy destroyers is a must. It allows you to reliably deal with Imperial Knights. With their mobility you can easily get into different arcs to negate their ion shields. I played a game recently against Knights and putting the Nightmare shroud destroyer lord in front to tank for the heavy destroyer unit keeps them alive against all the Rapid fire battle cannon shots.

Putting the DLord into the Destroyer units means that he's more or less "wasted", though. His big strengths are his Assault power and granting Preferred Enemy to his unit. Destroyers want to be nowhere near Assault, and they already have PE. So yeah, while he's good at tanking shots for them, I think he's usually better sticking in a unit of other things to give them PE or help Assault units tear through things.

Besides, Heavy Destroyers can always have a cover save thanks to Thrust Move + Move Through Cover.

The only time I put the D-Lord with the Heavy destroyers is when I play against 3 imperial knights. In this instance the heavy destroyers are going to be a key unit in dealing with the knights. Now this all also depends on the type of terrain in your game. If there's alot of LoS blocking then you can easily JsJ in and out of LoS at which point the destroyer lord can go elsewhere. The game I recently played was on a table with little LoS blocking so if I hadn't put the D-Lord with the heavy destroyers and jumped around the flanks of the knights they would have been hit with rapid fire battle cannons and whittled down to a point of being worthless. In any other scenario I would more than likely put the D-Lord with a brick of warriors to give PE but in this case I had to keep the Heavy Destroyers alive. They dealt a decent amount of hull points over the course of the game (9 I think) and more importantly they caused my opponent to put the shield in the arc they were in which opened his other arcs to mass warrior fire. I have no doubt that if I hadn't put the D-Lord with 2+ with the Heavy destroyers I would have lost.

In my pure Destroyer list, I put both Destroyer Lords in one unit, give one of them the Gauntlet of the Conflagrator and find it works pretty well for giving me a single decent close combat unit. They'll detach before charging under ideal circumstances, but the spare wounds are handy in the meantime.

True, best to put him where he's needed, I was more just talking in general.

Requizen wrote:
True, best to put him where he's needed, I was more just talking in general.

I absolutely agree with you. 20 warriors rapid firing with PE then charging with PE is scary (due to relentless from Decurion). Even a 30man squad of Ork Boyz doesn't want to see that happen. A warrior blob is usually where I put my D-Lord.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

changemod wrote:
In my pure Destroyer list, I put both Destroyer Lords in one unit, give one of them the Gauntlet of the Conflagrator and find it works pretty well for giving me a single decent close combat unit. They'll detach before charging under ideal circumstances, but the spare wounds are handy in the meantime.

Is the Gauntlet really worth it? It's super expensive and only a 1 shot? I have been going back and forth with it and can't bring myself to take it. If it was 15pts I could see but its double that and take up your one relic slot.

 Chosen Praetorian wrote:

changemod wrote:
In my pure Destroyer list, I put both Destroyer Lords in one unit, give one of them the Gauntlet of the Conflagrator and find it works pretty well for giving me a single decent close combat unit. They'll detach before charging under ideal circumstances, but the spare wounds are handy in the meantime.

Is the Gauntlet really worth it? It's super expensive and only a 1 shot? I have been going back and forth with it and can't bring myself to take it. If it was 15pts I could see but its double that and take up your one relic slot.

S7 AP2 Ignores cover rerolling wounds? Yeah, easily worth it. Not like there's that many other good relics for a Destroyer Lord anyhow.

I've modelled them as husband and wife, one with Voidreaper and Res Orb, the other with Warscythe and Gauntlet. Least useful item is probably the res orb honestly, but I modeled the first lord last edition when it actually did anything.

changemod wrote:

 Chosen Praetorian wrote:

changemod wrote:
In my pure Destroyer list, I put both Destroyer Lords in one unit, give one of them the Gauntlet of the Conflagrator and find it works pretty well for giving me a single decent close combat unit. They'll detach before charging under ideal circumstances, but the spare wounds are handy in the meantime.

Is the Gauntlet really worth it? It's super expensive and only a 1 shot? I have been going back and forth with it and can't bring myself to take it. If it was 15pts I could see but its double that and take up your one relic slot.

S7 AP2 Ignores cover rerolling wounds? Yeah, easily worth it. Not like there's that many other good relics for a Destroyer Lord anyhow.

I've modelled them as husband and wife, one with Voidreaper and Res Orb, the other with Warscythe and Gauntlet. Least useful item is probably the res orb honestly, but I modeled the first lord last edition when it actually did anything.

The stats of the weapons aren't what I'm questioning, it's the points that bother me. Plus it's S7 so it isn't even instant death to the things that you want to instant death (anything with T4 and FnP, characters that aren't eternal warrior). On top of that needs a delivery system and I don't play flyers so that's difficult for me. I guess I'll just have to try it out and stop over analyzing it.

 Chosen Praetorian wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Chosen Praetorian wrote:

changemod wrote:
In my pure Destroyer list, I put both Destroyer Lords in one unit, give one of them the Gauntlet of the Conflagrator and find it works pretty well for giving me a single decent close combat unit. They'll detach before charging under ideal circumstances, but the spare wounds are handy in the meantime.

Is the Gauntlet really worth it? It's super expensive and only a 1 shot? I have been going back and forth with it and can't bring myself to take it. If it was 15pts I could see but its double that and take up your one relic slot.

S7 AP2 Ignores cover rerolling wounds? Yeah, easily worth it. Not like there's that many other good relics for a Destroyer Lord anyhow.

I've modelled them as husband and wife, one with Voidreaper and Res Orb, the other with Warscythe and Gauntlet. Least useful item is probably the res orb honestly, but I modeled the first lord last edition when it actually did anything.

The stats of the weapons aren't what I'm questioning, it's the points that bother me. Plus it's S7 so it isn't even instant death to the things that you want to instant death (anything with T4 and FnP, characters that aren't eternal warrior). On top of that needs a delivery system and I don't play flyers so that's difficult for me. I guess I'll just have to try it out and stop over analyzing it.

It's 30 points to essentially erase a squad. With the speed of the Destroyer Lord, it's pretty cool.
Now, if you're doing a Reclamation and didn't care about the Overlord in there, give the Immortals a Scythe and have him pack the Gauntlet and drop him off for a quick problem solver. Now your Destroyer Lord can take the Void Reaper or Nightmare Shroud.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Chosen Praetorian wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Chosen Praetorian wrote:

changemod wrote:
In my pure Destroyer list, I put both Destroyer Lords in one unit, give one of them the Gauntlet of the Conflagrator and find it works pretty well for giving me a single decent close combat unit. They'll detach before charging under ideal circumstances, but the spare wounds are handy in the meantime.

Is the Gauntlet really worth it? It's super expensive and only a 1 shot? I have been going back and forth with it and can't bring myself to take it. If it was 15pts I could see but its double that and take up your one relic slot.

S7 AP2 Ignores cover rerolling wounds? Yeah, easily worth it. Not like there's that many other good relics for a Destroyer Lord anyhow.

I've modelled them as husband and wife, one with Voidreaper and Res Orb, the other with Warscythe and Gauntlet. Least useful item is probably the res orb honestly, but I modeled the first lord last edition when it actually did anything.

The stats of the weapons aren't what I'm questioning, it's the points that bother me. Plus it's S7 so it isn't even instant death to the things that you want to instant death (anything with T4 and FnP, characters that aren't eternal warrior). On top of that needs a delivery system and I don't play flyers so that's difficult for me. I guess I'll just have to try it out and stop over analyzing it.

It's 30 points to essentially erase a squad. With the speed of the Destroyer Lord, it's pretty cool.
Now, if you're doing a Reclamation and didn't care about the Overlord in there, give the Immortals a Scythe and have him pack the Gauntlet and drop him off for a quick problem solver. Now your Destroyer Lord can take the Void Reaper or Nightmare Shroud.

I need to pick up one flyer to put the required immortals in so they'll be somewhat useful. I could see taking a Gauntlet in this case. I just haven't wanted to pick one up, I feel like tomb blades do a better job of objectives in this codex. Plus they seem to do better damage with AP4 and Ignores cover (against some armies)

The idea that the res orb doesn't do anything baffles me. It increases the success rate of Reanimation Protocols from 33% to 62%, or from 50% to 75% in a Decurion (or from 68% to 75% in a Reclamation Legion within 12" of the Overlord, which is where it is least effective).

Alcibiades wrote:
The idea that the res orb doesn't do anything baffles me. It increases the success rate of Reanimation Protocols from 33% to 62%, or from 50% to 75% in a Decurion (or from 68% to 75% in a Reclamation Legion within 12" of the Overlord, which is where it is least effective).

Once.

Nice if you're preserving your deathstar, completely random if it'll be useful elsewhere when your durability is already solid and you could have just used those points on offence.

As for the nightmare shroud, that's horrifically overpriced. Could be handy in a Mephrit build where payoff of the combo is worth it though.

The two situations I'd go for Gauntlet of the Conflagrator are destroyer lord and shooty bargelord.

Oh, and as far as Voidreaper goes, ten points might be a fairly big cost for just master crafted, but on the few occasions where Fleshbane is actually helpful it's downright invaluable.

col_impact wrote:


Destroyer Cult:
Destroyer Lord (Phase Shifter, The Nightmare Shroud, Warscythe),
6x Destroyer,
3x Heavy Destroyer

How do you only have 6 destroyers in the d cult? The formation description says you need 3 units of destroyers with at least 3 models and then you could have up to one unit of heavy destroyers, so I think you'd need 9 regular destroyers. Did I miss something?

Someone else asked that earlier. They are in units of 2 normal and 1 heavy.

You are required to run 3 units of normal per the formation description. How do you get around that?

 RobPro wrote:
You are required to run 3 units of normal per the formation description. How do you get around that?

6 destroyers and 3 heavy destroyers = 3 units of 2x Destroyers and 1x Heavy Destroyer.

Except you need 3x units of Destroyers of at least 3 models. Read the restriction in the formation. Heavy Destroyers are not Destroyers.

 RobPro wrote:
Except you need 3x units of Destroyers of at least 3 models. Read the restriction in the formation. Heavy Destroyers are not Destroyers.

Here's what the entry says:

RESTRICTIONS:

Each unit of Destroyers must consist of at least 3 models.

Zimko is running 3 units and in each there are 2 destroyer and 1 heavy.

Ok, so let's put it all together

Formation
1 Destroyer Lord (pg 69)
3 Units of Destroyers (pg 91)
0-1 Units of Heavy Destroyers (pg 92)

Restrictions
Each unit of Destroyers must consist of at least 3 models.

It looks like you need 9 minimum regular destroyers. What are you seeing that I'm not?

 RobPro wrote:
Except you need 3x units of Destroyers of at least 3 models. Read the restriction in the formation. Heavy Destroyers are not Destroyers.

... okay, I can't tell, are you trolling?
They've explained multiple times now:
Destroyer Cult
1x Destroyer Lord
1x Destroyer unit (2x Regular, 1x Heavy)
1x Destroyer unit (2x Regular, 1x Heavy)
1x Destroyer unit (2x Regular, 1x Heavy)
0x Heavy Destroyer unit

9x Destroyers + 1 Destroyer Lord = Fulfilled requirements.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Dammit, ninja'd

Gotcha, thanks. I am not used to seeing people list units in separate squads together. Sorry for the confusion.

 RobPro wrote:
Gotcha, thanks. I am not used to seeing people list units in separate squads together. Sorry for the confusion.

I agree, the way that was written was quite confusing.

But yes, the units have to be 3 models, not 3 Destroyers, so 2D1H units are fine.

Yep, no problems there.

Alcibiades wrote:
The idea that the res orb doesn't do anything baffles me. It increases the success rate of Reanimation Protocols from 33% to 62%, or from 50% to 75% in a Decurion (or from 68% to 75% in a Reclamation Legion within 12" of the Overlord, which is where it is least effective).

I actually play res orbs alot (because they were built in 4th/5th edition when res orbs mattered). I also play in a meta with alot of Imperial knights and assault armies so I always get something out of my res orbs. If a knight hits me with 2 battle cannon shots the res orb gives me a 5+++/5+++ (about a 55% save) if I decide to use it. Against a squad of Orks (which there's a few ork players at my shop when I myself am not playing them), they're going to charge in with 116 attacks (assuming worse case scenario and the full squad gets in on you), hit with 58 and wound with 29. You're going to save half with your armor, taking it to 14.5, half with your first RP, taking it to 7.25, then another half with your second RP, taking it to 3.625 (so round to 4). The nob jumps up with his Klaw and hits with 2, wounds with 2, and you save 1. That means orks just jumped you in combat and only dealt 5 total wounds. That many attacks will completely wipe a full squad of marines. Like I said, I only take Res Orbs because my lords are already modeled with them and I hate not being WYSIWYG, but they can be pretty kewl at times.

 Chosen Praetorian wrote:

Alcibiades wrote:
The idea that the res orb doesn't do anything baffles me. It increases the success rate of Reanimation Protocols from 33% to 62%, or from 50% to 75% in a Decurion (or from 68% to 75% in a Reclamation Legion within 12" of the Overlord, which is where it is least effective).

I actually play res orbs alot (because they were built in 4th/5th edition when res orbs mattered). I also play in a meta with alot of Imperial knights and assault armies so I always get something out of my res orbs. If a knight hits me with 2 battle cannon shots the res orb gives me a 5+++/5+++ (about a 55% save) if I decide to use it. Against a squad of Orks (which there's a few ork players at my shop when I myself am not playing them), they're going to charge in with 116 attacks (assuming worse case scenario and the full squad gets in on you), hit with 58 and wound with 29. You're going to save half with your armor, taking it to 14.5, half with your first RP, taking it to 7.25, then another half with your second RP, taking it to 3.625 (so round to 4). The nob jumps up with his Klaw and hits with 2, wounds with 2, and you save 1. That means orks just jumped you in combat and only dealt 5 total wounds. That many attacks will completely wipe a full squad of marines. Like I said, I only take Res Orbs because my lords are already modeled with them and I hate not being WYSIWYG, but they can be pretty kewl at times.

I love the Res orb, and all my friends hate it.

I've survived, if not won or tied combats from charging Bloodcrushers (5, to be exact, into my 9 necron warriors) and a full squad of Nobs with a warboss into my warriors as well.

Gah, I'm having trouble with competitive list building. As you know, I'm a huge proponent of Orikanstar. I think it's one of the best Deathstars in the game. But, I also love the Destroyer Cult, as it's probably one of the strongest formations out there. But fitting them both together has proven somewhat problematic. To get a 6D6H Destroyer Cult (3x 2D1H Destroyer units, 1x 3 Heavys) and a Orikanstar in a Decurion is pretty difficult. You can do it with base amounts, making something like this:

Decurion - 1846/1850


Gives you a Fearless Orikanstar with 3 Warscythes and Preferred Enemy. The only downside is that now you're only looking at min units of everything, and the Lord/Overlord only have Warscythes. There were 16 points left over and I threw 12 into the Tomb Blades to give them the upgrades I consider necessary (3+ and Ignores Cover), the only other thing worth considering would have been putting one of the Warscythes to Voidreaper, but with PE already on the unit and high number of attacks already, I though making the Tomb Blades better was the best option.

So, this isn't a bad list. A big, killy deathstar, extremely durable MSU, and good shooting from the Destroyers. But, as I said it's very minimal. The Orikanstar is very minimal. The Lord/Overlord don't have Invulns, there's no Res Orb in the unit, no other 2+ other than Zahndrekh. That's not necessarily a bad thing, since it should still tank like a mofo and eat a huge number of shots, while also killing things in assault. But, if the characters get challenged out or sniped out, there's not a whole lot they can do to specifically survive.

The other downside is that the Reclamation Legion is pretty basic. I haven't found this to be too big of an issue in the past, but it does mean that the Immortals and Tomb Blades are fairly easy to kill off for First Blood or the like. Not that 3+/4+++ is easy to kill, but just that low model counts tend to not last long. The Warriors survive longer by sheer virtue of more models and nearly as strong saves, but still.

I could cut back to ~7 Shieldguard (I wouldn't want to go any smaller) and then spread the love a little bit. Phase Shifters for the Overlord/Lord and maybe a Nightmare Shroud on the DLord. Or more troops, could buy another unit of Immortals or Tomb Blades with the savings.

It's easier to fit them together if we're come out of the Decurion for CAD + Destroyer Cult, but then we're missing out on the 4+++ that makes Necrons so freaking strong. There's a big difference between a Decurion Destroyer and just one with a 5+++, and that's often the difference between winning and losing.

So I think the above list is fine, but I'm not sure if it's worth dropping some 'Guard to beef up the rest of the list. Each one is an insanely durable model with 2 AP3 attacks and the ability to ignore most things outright (a 90.7% chance to ignore each wound per Shieldguard). However, the main downside of this Deathstar is the mobility, and in cases where it can't reach things, the extra boost to shooting units might be preferable.

What do you guys think about the list?

Requizen wrote:
What do you guys think about the list?

A five independent character unit in a low model count list with minimal, barely upgraded units... So you're just plain trying to do too much, honestly.

There's no fat to trim here. You're pretty much going to have to pick low optimisation, drop the Decurion or drop one of the thematic elements.

Too slow, enemy just has to stay away from the unit and you've wasted all the points that went into it.
Sure, you've got Destroyers to do some killing, but if the points you've poured into the Orkianstar aren't going to be used, might as well take them and do something more productive with them, ie. more Destroyers.

I remember that when the codex came out there was a lot of talk about how Tomb Blades are the greatest thing ever, possibly even imbalanced, making Immortals obsolete etc.

Since then, has experience confirmed this? What do people think?

Alcibiades wrote:
I remember that when the codex came out there was a lot of talk about how Tomb Blades are the greatest thing ever, possibly even imbalanced, making Immortals obsolete etc.

Since then, has experience confirmed this? What do people think?

They're not obsolete, as they can be a decent bodyguard for an Overlord and take a Night Scythe. Best spend points on Tomb Blades first though.

Alcibiades wrote:
I remember that when the codex came out there was a lot of talk about how Tomb Blades are the greatest thing ever, possibly even imbalanced, making Immortals obsolete etc.

Since then, has experience confirmed this? What do people think?

They are excellent, only issue is they are fast attack. Immortals are your cheapest troop taxes
They can also be helpful to get a night scythe.

I'd almost always rather tomb blades over immortals, for 5 points extra you get +1 Toughness , Jetbike mobility, twin linked, and ignores cover.