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 Pertruabo wrote:

So for 30 Points is it better to give him voidreaper or give him warscythe + mind shack or phase shifter or phylactery?

I'd say voidreaper, because mindshackles won't do anything in most games and it's nice to have a real close combat weapon.

Although, if you have the models available, I'd rather take those heavy destroyers in each unit.

Requizen wrote:


Yes, it's still not going to wreck 4 Wraithknights. But, it can kill damn near everything else on the table and put a wound or two on one. Coupled with a Destroyer Cult it can put out some really crazy damage. After that I really just need a lot of bodies on the table to compensate.
.

Well if the WK are all in a straight line you will have a decent shot. I have a poor second hand pylon. It is in some seriously bad shape. I am torn between making it terrain and fixing it up.

 MLKTH wrote:

 Pertruabo wrote:

So for 30 Points is it better to give him voidreaper or give him warscythe + mind shack or phase shifter or phylactery?

I'd say voidreaper, because mindshackles won't do anything in most games and it's nice to have a real close combat weapon.

Although, if you have the models available, I'd rather take those heavy destroyers in each unit.

Ah ok, I could get the Heavy Destroyers,So is it better to kit the D-Lord or pimp out the normal Destroyers to Hevy Destroyers.?

 gwarsh41 wrote:

Requizen wrote:


Yes, it's still not going to wreck 4 Wraithknights. But, it can kill damn near everything else on the table and put a wound or two on one. Coupled with a Destroyer Cult it can put out some really crazy damage. After that I really just need a lot of bodies on the table to compensate.
.

Well if the WK are all in a straight line you will have a decent shot. I have a poor second hand pylon. It is in some seriously bad shape. I am torn between making it terrain and fixing it up.

If they would just go and give the regular Pylon the ability to fire non-Skyfire, I would build one so fast it's not even funny. Alas, it's basically a useless Superheavy until then.

Is there any way to give the Sentry Pylons relentless anymore? Without it the Alpha-strike capabilities are pretty much gone.
(You can still give them a Veil to move around with, but as soon as they drop they'll get shot to hell before they have a chance to fire.)

 skoffs wrote:
Is there any way to give the Sentry Pylons relentless anymore? Without it the Alpha-strike capabilities are pretty much gone.
(You can still give them a Veil to move around with, but as soon as they drop they'll get shot to hell before they have a chance to fire.)

...gak

You can give them Relentless with Zahndrekh. Turn 2, switch his Warlord Trait to the Relentless/Crusader trait (Necrons #5), then teleport. Turn 1 just gotta shoot them or hide them, which kinda sucks. I guess at that point it's still decent, but now you're adding another 150 on top and putting your Warlord out there to get charged and what not.

Anrakyr has that Warlord Trait as a set one, so you can use him as well and still get it Turn 1, but he's more expensive and also more useless than Zahndrekh.

They're still pretty decent artillery, set up Death or Heat Ray guys up near the edge of the DZ and kill anything that gets in range, but yeah I forgot about that. Makes it much less appealing as a deathstar unit.

Hey, as far as anti-Knights/SuperHeavies go, how do Acanthrites stack up?

 skoffs wrote:
Hey, as far as anti-Knights/SuperHeavies go, how do Acanthrites stack up?

Well, they're drop melta.

Not drop pod melta though, so random turn and a need to land accurately within six inches. Using them that way works better against medium vehicles causing you a hassle from out of retribution range really.

Still, I guess you could work them into things if your opponent was moving their combat superheavy forward agressively, letting you pop conventionally jumping jump melta into a side or rear arc.

So, if your opponent's superheavy is a Knight Gallant, you're golden.

Anyhow, I'll tell you the niche where Acanthrites shine: Tau.

Since Tau are universally downright terrible in melee, their melee potential works equally well as a Wraith unit would. The extra would be wasted frankly. Add in their extra wound, the fact that they can threaten support vehicles as well as the main gunline... They can be dealt with, but not easily.

Wraiths would also work, but I think the extra versatility pays off in this example.

Trying to think in terms of handling things Necrons have the most difficulty dealing with.
Ever since we lost Haywire, we have no guaranteed way to deal with things like A.Lance (and please, no "hurr, gauss can do it!" comments. I'm talking about reliable methods)

Destroyer cult is probably the best answer the crons have to knights. Normal destroyers are surprisingly good at stripping hull points since they reroll armour pens and heavies can cause those explode results for extra d3 HPs if you get lucky. Plus they can deepstrike to shoot a knight from multiple facings.

Still not as reliable as the old stormteks were, but the best I can think of.

10 Scarabs in a Canopteck Harvest with shred is an other possible solution (still depending on theses 6')

Shred doesn't help with To Pen, unfortnunately.

Dammit, we need the Storm-teks back!
Hurry up and release a supplement already!
("Harbingers of the Silent King" or something along those lines)

With more and more superheavies/Gargantuans coming out, Necrons will continue to fall behind, mark my words.

Against most things - small arms fire, special weapons, etc - we're considered OP. We never die to Bolters! People love to complain about them. But once more D hits the table and things that ignore RP like Stomp, there goes our big strength. And we don't have the shooting to keep up.

I try not to be gloom and doom about these things, but looking at all the stuff coming out from Forge World and then looking at what we can do to counter it... it doesn't look good. We already struggle with AdLance, Wraithknights, and the like, as that becomes more normal we're going to drop down.

In casual games, that doesn't matter. Most FLGS players don't like to bring gargantuans or lots of D shooting. But, in the competitive scene, as it gets more widespread in the rules it'll become more accepted. And then we'll be in a sticky situation.

Everyone except the Eldar is already on a sticky situation.

 Tyran wrote:
Everyone except the Eldar is already on a sticky situation.

Chaos if fine. Summoning en mass is still broken as ever. The Wargames Con winner featured an Invisible, Grimoired D-Bloodthirster alongside Summoning, which can and will run roughshod through anything in the game. Brass Scorpion is also pretty good.

Imperial armies are probably fine. CentStar is still a thing, any amount of mass Grav wins just fine. Librarian Conclave makes getting Psychic Buffs a joke. Plus, they have Knights as well, even if they're not exactly on the same level as Wraithknights.

Tyranids will do... ok. 3-5 Flyrants, 2+ save Barbed Hierodules, Lictorshame shenanigans all still work, just need to be done carefully. Barbed/Scythed Hierodules are actually decent at taking out other Superheavies, since S10 shooting is fantastic and it can Stomp just like the rest.

Orks, DEldar (outside of allied to Eldar), pure CSM, Tau are probably all in a rough spot. Maybe Tau can hang, especially with Forge World giving them a new Gargantuan some time soon.

I guess it really comes down to how long tourneys and events continue to blockade Lords of War from being part of the game. In my opinion, the longer the better - not just because Necrons suffer, but because it makes things stale. Pack as many big guys as possible or an unkillable Deathstar to counter them and hope for the best, that's what it'll boil down to.

Requizen wrote:
With more and more superheavies/Gargantuans coming out, Necrons will continue to fall behind, mark my words.

Against most things - small arms fire, special weapons, etc - we're considered OP. We never die to Bolters! People love to complain about them. But once more D hits the table and things that ignore RP like Stomp, there goes our big strength. And we don't have the shooting to keep up.

I try not to be gloom and doom about these things, but looking at all the stuff coming out from Forge World and then looking at what we can do to counter it... it doesn't look good. We already struggle with AdLance, Wraithknights, and the like, as that becomes more normal we're going to drop down.

In casual games, that doesn't matter. Most FLGS players don't like to bring gargantuans or lots of D shooting. But, in the competitive scene, as it gets more widespread in the rules it'll become more accepted. And then we'll be in a sticky situation.

Except Space Marines and Dark Angels didn't get super heavies, gargantuans, or reliable Strength D.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Except Space Marines and Dark Angels didn't get super heavies, gargantuans, or reliable Strength D.

They already had it with Imperial Knights.

When talking about competitive things, Imperials are all lumped together, because being Battle Brothers with the Imperium is basically one of the best special rules in the game.

And Cent Star is basically D against anything but Hordes, but no one plays those types of armies anymore (though maybe they should).

Requizen wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Except Space Marines and Dark Angels didn't get super heavies, gargantuans, or reliable Strength D.

They already had it with Imperial Knights.

When talking about competitive things, Imperials are all lumped together, because being Battle Brothers with the Imperium is basically one of the best special rules in the game.

And Cent Star is basically D against anything but Hordes, but no one plays those types of armies anymore (though maybe they should).

Imperial Knights aren't that scary. Destroyers will typically ruin their day, Gauss can add to it, as well as Scarabs (since we know you're running a harvest anyway). Is it reliable? Meh, nothing when you have to roll and roll a 6 is reliable, even with rerolls. But it'll do work.

Plus, I don't see the big deal with the competitive setting. Worrying about how you're going to deal with an OP threat in a game that is the farthest star from the center of the Balance galaxy is pointless.

Imperial Knights aren't that scary. Destroyers will typically ruin their day

Are you talking regular Destroyers, or just heavies?

 skoffs wrote:

Imperial Knights aren't that scary. Destroyers will typically ruin their day

Are you talking regular Destroyers, or just heavies?

In my experience it's been both. What's been most important for me is spreading out my cult so I can get shots in on separate arcs so to ignore their saves. If you can do this then the reg destroyers will do a decent number of hull points.

 Chosen Praetorian wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

Imperial Knights aren't that scary. Destroyers will typically ruin their day

Are you talking regular Destroyers, or just heavies?

In my experience it's been both. What's been most important for me is spreading out my cult so I can get shots in on separate arcs so to ignore their saves. If you can do this then the reg destroyers will do a decent number of hull points.

This. ^

Destroyers in general will do damage to most things. Heavies just help that cause more.

On a different note; does anyone else find it silly that decurions are still getting banned from many tournaments while other armies get to keep crazy stuff?

oddly enough, last tournament our IK player running triple wardens in a baronial court formation just ran over two decurion necrons with destroyer cults.

good placement of the IKs with 3++ on the front, coming in at a slight diagonal angle can actually negate a lot of a D-Cult's firepower. the one slight exposed angle? he sent his small twc star in that direction.
the triple warden's 36 avenger shots concentrated at the heavy destroyers, or the furthest destroyers while he strive to charge the nearer ones. Given average rolls, 3 (heavy) destroyers will die in one turn by that shooting alone.

Deshkar wrote:
oddly enough, last tournament our IK player running triple wardens in a baronial court formation just ran over two decurion necrons with destroyer cults.

good placement of the IKs with 3++ on the front, coming in at a slight diagonal angle can actually negate a lot of a D-Cult's firepower. the one slight exposed angle? he sent his small twc star in that direction.
the triple warden's 36 avenger shots concentrated at the heavy destroyers, or the furthest destroyers while he strive to charge the nearer ones. Given average rolls, 3 (heavy) destroyers will die in one turn by that shooting alone.

Yes, IKs are stupid. We all know this.

Which is why we need reliable methods of dealing with them.

Oh, Storm-teks, how I miss thee...

 skoffs wrote:
Which is why we need reliable methods of dealing with them.

Oh, Storm-teks, how I miss thee...

Or, Haywire in general. You'd think as Necrons, we'd have some...

 krodarklorr wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Which is why we need reliable methods of dealing with them.

Oh, Storm-teks, how I miss thee...

Or, Haywire in general. You'd think as Necrons, we'd have some...

We do as part of a Warlord trait in the "supplement"

Heavy Destroyers, and Destroyers in the Cult, are perfectly acceptable as AT. Hell, Praetorians with Voidblades (especially in the formation) are pretty killer too. I don't think we're lacking at all to be hoenst in that department. We just don't have suicide squads, in a sense.

Sorry if this isnt a good place to put this but I figured it would be better than making a new thread. So ive decided on making a second army, which of course is Necrons. Ive been trying to create a 1500 list and ive gotten stuck at 1100 points. Im really having trouble deciding what to do with the remaining 400. Heres the list so far:

Decurion Detachment - 1100 points

Reclamation Legion - 826 points:
Command Barge: Overlord (Warscythe, Resurrection Orb, Phase Shifter) - 205 Points
5x Immortals - 85 points
3x Tomb Blades (3x Nebuloscope, Shield Vanes) - 66 points
Ghost Ark - 105 points
10x Necron Warriors - 130 points
Ghost Ark - 105 points
10x Necron Warriors - 130 points

Canoptek Harvest - 294 points:
Canoptek Spyder (Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism) - 65 points
3x Canoptek Wraiths (3x Whip Coils) - 129 points
4x Canoptek Scarabs - 80 points

I hope those points are allocated correctly, someone correct me if you notice anything.

Any help would be great, just looking for something that would really compliment what I have so far and also any changes recommended for what I already have listed. Thanks!

Rygar91 wrote:
Sorry if this isnt a good place to put this but I figured it would be better than making a new thread. So ive decided on making a second army, which of course is Necrons. Ive been trying to create a 1500 list and ive gotten stuck at 1100 points. Im really having trouble deciding what to do with the remaining 400. Heres the list so far:

Decurion Detachment - 1100 points

Reclamation Legion - 826 points:
Command Barge: Overlord (Warscythe, Resurrection Orb, Phase Shifter) - 205 Points
5x Immortals - 85 points
3x Tomb Blades (3x Nebuloscope, Shield Vanes) - 66 points
Ghost Ark - 105 points
10x Necron Warriors - 130 points
Ghost Ark - 105 points
10x Necron Warriors - 130 points

Canoptek Harvest - 294 points:
Canoptek Spyder (Fabricator Claw Array, Gloom Prism) - 65 points
3x Canoptek Wraiths (3x Whip Coils) - 129 points
4x Canoptek Scarabs - 80 points

I hope those points are allocated correctly, someone correct me if you notice anything.

Any help would be great, just looking for something that would really compliment what I have so far and also any changes recommended for what I already have listed. Thanks!

I'd drop the orb and add a Nightmare Veil on the CCB.
I'd drop the array on the Spyder, and suggest reviewing your meta to consider dropping the prism.
I'd suggest considering dropping the whip coils on the wraiths: if they will be mostly tarpitting, striking first is irrelevant, otherwise they are 'killy' enough without against normal targets.
I'd drop the 4th scarab.

I'd suggest considering a Night Scythe for effective precision deep strike on the immortals, or the Judicator Battalion, or a second 3-man squad of tomb blades (same kit), or more wraiths (if tarpitting).

Of all of these, my strongest opinion is in favor of the praetorians; your list lacks AP2 (I'd recommend considering your CCB more of a tank buster or fast objective grabber--against dedicated close combat, they usually opt to punch the AV13 for a blow up result).