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 skoffs wrote:
Anyone having any luck with the Praetorians and their formation?
I see tons about the Cult and the Harvest, even a bit about the Deathbringer Flight, but not much about the Judicator Battalion.
Particularly I'm interested to see how those dedicated Night Scythes are with rerolls to pen (no comment on whether Praetorians can even get inside their plane. There are other places to discuss that).
Also, how are Stalkers doing? Just the one, or do you get a couple more?

It's not terrible. In fact, I don't think any of the formations are, with previously discussed Annihilation Node being the closest.

Praetorians are interesting. They're somewhere between (Warscythe) Lychguard and Wraiths. Faster than Scytheguard, less durable than Wraiths (no Invuln, but yes RP all the time), similar damage output to both, depending on loadouts and targets. Which means they hold a strange position, not being big beefy tarpits, but still being fast and able to take apart certain enemies with ease.

Stalkers are cool, but I feel like you need to take them in a Squad because an Open Topped Walker is going to get one-shot if it a Melta/Lascannon/Haywire gun so much as glances at it. I have discussed my distaste for vehicles currently already, but having the BS5 bonus is pretty nice and perhaps worth the risk of first blood. Especially when combo'd with Preferred Enemy/Reroll 1s Strategic Trait (from Zahndrekh).

Overall, the formation is pretty solid. Rerolling Praetorians aren't anything special, but hey it's something. The main bonus (for me) is giving them Move Through Cover, so they can jump around freely and not take the -2" charge downside.

If you don't want to take Wraiths but you still want a good Assault unit, this is a good Formation. Or, if you just want to use those specific models, it's fine. Otherwise, the Harvest is better for pure Assault units 90% of the time imo.

Requizen wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Anyone having any luck with the Praetorians and their formation?
I see tons about the Cult and the Harvest, even a bit about the Deathbringer Flight, but not much about the Judicator Battalion.
Particularly I'm interested to see how those dedicated Night Scythes are with rerolls to pen (no comment on whether Praetorians can even get inside their plane. There are other places to discuss that).
Also, how are Stalkers doing? Just the one, or do you get a couple more?

It's not terrible. In fact, I don't think any of the formations are, with previously discussed Annihilation Node being the closest.

Praetorians are interesting. They're somewhere between (Warscythe) Lychguard and Wraiths. Faster than Scytheguard, less durable than Wraiths (no Invuln, but yes RP all the time), similar damage output to both, depending on loadouts and targets. Which means they hold a strange position, not being big beefy tarpits, but still being fast and able to take apart certain enemies with ease.

Stalkers are cool, but I feel like you need to take them in a Squad because an Open Topped Walker is going to get one-shot if it a Melta/Lascannon/Haywire gun so much as glances at it. I have discussed my distaste for vehicles currently already, but having the BS5 bonus is pretty nice and perhaps worth the risk of first blood. Especially when combo'd with Preferred Enemy/Reroll 1s Strategic Trait (from Zahndrekh).

Overall, the formation is pretty solid. Rerolling Praetorians aren't anything special, but hey it's something. The main bonus (for me) is giving them Move Through Cover, so they can jump around freely and not take the -2" charge downside.

If you don't want to take Wraiths but you still want a good Assault unit, this is a good Formation. Or, if you just want to use those specific models, it's fine. Otherwise, the Harvest is better for pure Assault units 90% of the time imo.

I like this post--it sums up the unit's place in the hierarchy and the meta pretty well.

If I want to casualize a strong list, I usually swap out Harvest for this formation.

Xafilah wrote:
Can we get the news on warrior blocks? It sounds like fun, but how can you bolster it?

I generally run a block of 15-20 in a list that I bring the D-cult. I slap my lord in there and make him the warlord, buffs them up pretty well. If it is decurion, I throw the overlord in the unit as well. Last game was a CAD, I had the D-lord plus cryptek in the unit. Took 20 invisible flesh hounds 5 turns to go through them. Eventually I failed a moral and was run down.

In other games they have done really well. Very large, very durable block, especially in decurion.

Lots of feedback on here about most formations/units, just have a quick question on Lychguard and a royal court. Specifically is it competitive, because I'd love to run it, it looks cool and I love all of those models, but I'm afraid a foot slogging CC unit that's a ton of points is just going to loose me games.

Maybe not lose you the game, but yes, Lychguard are too slow to be truly competitive.
What they ARE good for, on the other hand, is keeping near your vulnerable Warrior blobs. People tend to be more hesitant to charge a big unit of Warriors if there's a CC heavy weight standing guard just itching to get into combat.

Royal Courts can jump into Ghost Arks to circumvent the mobility issue, but they're just too expensive to consider competitive.

Lychguard, by themselves, are not super competitive. However, the number of necron players that are using Spacecurves' lychbomb deathstar lately shows that they can be the core of a top tier deathstar. Zahndrekh from your reclamation legion and a DLord from your DCult with the veil and a resorb with a big wad of warscythe lychguard is a super-flexible, super-resilient unit that can wreck all the faces. Add in Orikan and/or maybe a staff of light cryptek from an allied detachment or CAD to make it even more rediculous.

Of course, you have to play that unit expertly to get the damage out of it that you need to make up for its points. And a mishap on your veil attempt basically loses you the game. So, no, it's not a unit or list that I'd recommend for most players. However, it can very well be competitive.

What can people suggest as good decurion lists to take on the new Ravenwing and their re-rollable saves of brokenness/assault on turn 2?

zerosignal wrote:
What can people suggest as good decurion lists to take on the new Ravenwing and their re-rollable saves of brokenness/assault on turn 2?

I haven't played against the new Ravenwing, and know next to nothing other than their 2+ rerollable jink, but whats the big deal? You have S5 Ignores Cover Twin-linked weapons? You also have Wraiths?

Yep, Wraiths and Bikes. That's actually where my newest list is going to. Maybe moving towards a mini Scarab farm as well.

My 1850 list brings a little of all the best.
Decurion
A giant 850pt destroyer cult.
A 5 wraith harvest
3 units of 3 tomb blades for quick harass

Then I bring a bunch of warriors to fill the rest. I've had a lot of good results with this list. Oh, required 5 immortals as well.

Use ignores-cover Tomb Blades to plink down the darkshroud and ap3 Destroyers to keep the bikes jinking instead of shooting. Put up speed-bump units like wraiths, scarabs, or flayed ones to keep the bikes from charging your Tomb Blades or Destroyers.

Good luck!

 FL5 wrote:
Use ignores-cover Tomb Blades to plink down the darkshroud and ap3 Destroyers to keep the bikes jinking instead of shooting. Put up speed-bump units like wraiths, scarabs, or flayed ones to keep the bikes from charging your Tomb Blades or Destroyers.

Good luck!

Eh, don't waste the Destroyer's shooting at the bikes, as it won't doing something. Shoot standard gauss at them. If they jink, they won't die, but they jinked. If they don't jink, they only have a 3+ save. Win-win.

I rarely have to deal with jink, so I can't remember, but
If a unit takes a jink save against a shooting attack from enemy A, can it still take a jink save against a shooting attack from enemy B? (does the jink last for the entire shooting phase, or just against the first thing it jinks from?)
Because if not, you could probably organize something between the Warriors and Destroyers (ie. 20 Warriors shoot at bikes, they jink, then Destroyers finish them off)

 skoffs wrote:
I rarely have to deal with jink, so I can't remember, but
If a unit takes a jink save against a shooting attack from enemy A, can it still take a jink save against a shooting attack from enemy B? (does the jink last for the entire shooting phase, or just against the first thing it jinks from?)
Because if not, you could probably organize something between the Warriors and Destroyers (ie. 20 Warriors shoot at bikes, they jink, then Destroyers finish them off)

Jink lasts until the beginning of their next turn.

I plan on taking this army to a NOVA prep tourney.

Decurion:
Reclamation Legion-851
NEMESOR ZAHNDREKH-150
10xWarriors
10xWarriors
5xImmortals
5xLychguard: 4xHyper phase sword, dispersion shields
5xLychguard: 4xHyper phase sword, dispersion shields
3xTomb Blades:3x Nebuloscope, 3xshield vane

Canoptek Harvest 325
Spyder
3xScarabs
5xWraiths:whip coils

Canoptek Harvest 325
Spyder
3xScarabs
5xWraiths:whip coils

Royal Court-345
Overlord:Veil of Darkness
Orikan the Diviner
Vargard Obyron

Strat is Overlord and Nemesor goes with one unit of lychguard, Orikan and Vargard goes with the other. Turn 1 or 2, Overlord uses veil of darkness and DS in, then Vargard uses ghost walk mantle and DS with 12" of Nemesor without scatter. With the support of the wraith wings, you can be in your opponents face immediately.

Army lists should go in the army list section.
Tactics threads are for tactic discussion.

Also you can't mix and match Lychguard weapons.

Requizen wrote:
Also you can't mix and match Lychguard weapons.

I feel like being able to mix and match would vastly improve Lychguard as a choice. Two Shields I would feel safe with, and then the rest have the Scythes.

I don't care about mixing and matching Praetorians because they're fast enough to catch up with their designated target, but Lychguard really aren't.

Anyone utilized a Tau Firebase Support Cadre alongside the Crons? What loadouts work, and what do they combo well with?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Requizen wrote:
Also you can't mix and match Lychguard weapons.

I feel like being able to mix and match would vastly improve Lychguard as a choice. Two Shields I would feel safe with, and then the rest have the Scythes.

I don't care about mixing and matching Praetorians because they're fast enough to catch up with their designated target, but Lychguard really aren't.

Yep, Lychguard are good, but mixing weapons would make them one of the best Assault units in the game, slow or not imo.

Oops my mistake.

Anyways my point is lychguard can be VERY competitive if you don't fk up the veil drop. Therefore be extra careful dropping Nemesor's unit and then use Obyron's ghost walk mantle to drop another unit within 12" away in the enemy's face without scatter. Next turn you wreck havoc with wraith support.

Most of the necron lists that have done well in big US tournaments have had a large unit of lychguard. Most notably Ben Mohlie (2nd at WargamesCon) and Alex Gonzalez (top 16 at BAO) both had a similar unit of eight scytheguard with zahndrekh, orikan and a destroyer lord (Alex's also had other characters). To me that means, without any doubt, that lychguard IS very much competitive, at least in the ITC tournament format.

 MLKTH wrote:
Most of the necron lists that have done well in big US tournaments have had a large unit of lychguard. Most notably Ben Mohlie (2nd at WargamesCon) and Alex Gonzalez (top 16 at BAO) both had a similar unit of eight scytheguard with zahndrekh, orikan and a destroyer lord (Alex's also had other characters). To me that means, without any doubt, that lychguard IS very much competitive, at least in the ITC tournament format.

Well yeah, they are. They just require a lot of finesse.

Wraiths? Wraiths you just run at stuff and then charge. The hardest thing you have to do is prioritize targets correctly and occasionally make sure you're in range to get Reanimation from a Spyder.

The Scytheguard unit that's used in those lists are different. They're too slow to walk anywhere and be useful, so you have to DS them with the Veil. If you get them where they need to be, 8 Lychguard with Warscythes and Preferred Enemy and Zealot are going to absolutely wreck anything not named Wraithknight. However, you need to get them there. Deep Striking can be finnicky, and then you need to make sure they're
a) safe enough to survive a turn until they can charge
and
b) in a good enough position to charge something the turn after, once the opponent moves away.

Scytheguard are just as durable as Shieldguard against anything that doesn't ignore 3+. And if you get them into Ruins with the Veil and then switch Zahndrekh's Trait to Stealth(Ruins), they have a 3+ cover. They're bloody survivable. But, unlike Shieldguard, they can't just walk up the middle of the board and shrug off Demolisher Cannons. You need to be really smart with how you get them into position and what targets you get them to.

Part of this comes from using the Wraiths that both of those lists have. You use the Wraiths to pen something into a corner, and then cut off their retreat with a teleporting Lychguard unit. Seems simple enough, but can be difficult to pull off depending on the unit.

Additionally, note that anything that's AP3 or better and good at Assault may just wreck them (like Daemon Princes, a Herald of Khorne, or GK stuff), since they're still I2 and only have RP once in combat, unless you let the characters tank, which can be scary. Wraithguard with Scythes with also give them a bad day, and don't even think about charging a GC such as a Wraithknight or a Barbed Hierodule.

So, yeah, they're great, and occasionally will punch way above their weight class. But you need to use them intelligently to make them worthwhile, and some armies can outplay it with positioning and mobility.

Yeah, I totally agree. Wraiths are good in a simple and obvious way, while lychguard is harder to use and also needs certain independent characters to join them before they really shine.

Adding a destroyer lord with a phase shifter helps the unit a lot, because he can tank AP3 or lower wounds in close combat (and shooting if he stands in front), even S10 ones since he's T6.

However, I don't think a full deathstar is the only way to use lychguard. I play a lot of 1500 point games, and at that size you can't really fit a destroyer cult AND a royal court into a decurion list. For that reason my version includes only five scytheguard, zahndrekh and a destroyer lord with veil, warscythe and a phase shifter. In a list that's otherwise pure shooty, that unit works more like a counter assault unit than the main threat. Considering that I have to take both characters anyway, 125 points for a serious close combat threat is really cheap.

You can also use the wraiths as anvil for the hammer(lychguards). Wraiths are probably the only CC unit that can catch jet bikes, bikes, and etc, then you finish it off with the lychguards.

What do you guys think about Night Shroud Bombers vs Doom Scythes?

Both are similar in that their main weapons are S10 AP1 Blasts, though the Death Ray has Lance and the Bombs have Blind/Pinning and are Large. The Night Shroud is tougher (with 4HP and AV12), but more expensive as well.

I'm not really sure which one to take since I have points for both. Obviously the DScythe is easier to hit targets with since it doesn't have to pass over the target, but it scatters 2d6" and is smaller. The Bombs are very strong, but necessitate certain positioning because of the movement that may or may not be possible in some situations.

What do you guys think?

Doom Scythes, because you can more easily take them in a Decurion.

Need a head to head comparison between Scythe Lychguard and Rod Praetorians:

S.L.
Pros-
- very killy, with S7 AP2
- easy to attach characters to
Cons-
- slow
- only 3+/5+++

R.P.
Pros-
- fast
- fairly killy, with S5 AP2
Cons-
- only 3+/5+++
- only IC that might be able to keep up with them is Destroyer Lord

What else?

 skoffs wrote:
Need a head to head comparison between Scythe Lychguard and Rod Praetorians:

S.L.
Pros-
- very killy, with S7 AP2
- easy to attach characters to
Cons-
- slow
- only 3+/5+++

R.P.
Pros-
- fast
- fairly killy, with S5 AP2
Cons-
- only 3+/5+++
- only IC that might be able to keep up with them is Destroyer Lord

What else?

Well you hit their individual effectiveness but you also need to consider ease of use. Each unit has an extended price to use.

S.L.
Pros-
- Easy to include in a Decurion.
Cons-
- Requires a character or a transport to perform well.

R.P.
Pros-
- Doesn't need a character to perform.
Cons-
- Requires an expensive formation to include in a Decurion.

It also depends on what you're using them for. What's in the rest of the army? Do you need a fast striker, or do you need a brick that will stand next to the rest of your army and counter charge? They're very different units.

Rod Praetorians are fast, and are great at roaming around to poke at things and threaten a charge with AP2. At only S5 and no Armorbane, they're not as great in Assault as Scytheguard, but they're faster and have guns, so they can pick their targets with some modicum of ease.

Scytheguard are insanely strong in Assault, but can't get anywhere, so you use them to babysit your ranged units and charge anything that gets close. They'll wipe damn near anything in the game other than Gargantuans, and depending on what ICs you have with them they can do that well.

You know who doesn't get discussed much anymore?
Flayed Ones.
Now that they don't suck I'd expected to see a lot more of them, but not so much.

Those people who do use them, what's your preference?
MSU? Large group?
Deployed? Infiltrated? Deep struck? Out flanked?
By themselves? With attached IC? If so, who? Destroyer Lord is kind of a waste of Preferred Enemy, seeing as how they already reroll 1s to wound. Would a combat Lord be worth considering?
Working in conjunction with what other units?
What tactics are there?