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Has anyone done a writeup/battle report of a Destroyer Cult list? I'm building one up but I'm not really knowledgeable on how a handful of AP3 Heavy Bolters and half range Lascannons can be used.

 krodarklorr wrote:
Yeah, A-barges are very lackluster in this codex. And, the Annihilation Nexus just seems pitiful with what it actually gives you. I'd think that a Heavy Support formation would actually do something to bolster their offensive power of some sort, but naaaaah.

The theme of the Necron book is durability rather than damage output. There's very few things in here that are bonuses to damage output, and thematically they make sense (Destroyers are hell-bent on killing everything). Which was the point that I was getting at before, that our "toughness before all" paradigm falls flat in a game where the big competitive lists have the damage output to nullify that and then Necrons don't have much to back it up. But I won't go into that tirade again

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Has anyone done a writeup/battle report of a Destroyer Cult list? I'm building one up but I'm not really knowledgeable on how a handful of AP3 Heavy Bolters and half range Lascannons can be used.

I haven't done one yet, but I can tell you from experience: DCult is insane. It's by and far the best formation in the book, only possibly tied with the Harvest in certain situations. Destroyers wreck anything that's not T8+, Heavy Destroyers smash vehicles extremely well and deal with 2+ tanking dudes. I used to not Deep Strike them, but ever since I started doing so, they've done amazingly well. Suddenly dropping 3 Destroyers near anything that's not 2+ or extremely tough will generally just remove them or at least weaken them quite a bit, and saves them against Alpha Strikes.

Not to mention that giving Heavy Destroyers Move Through Cover just lets them camp in cover and jump around without worrying, turning them into a great stationary target. Especially if you can give them Stealth(Ruins) from Zahndrekh to combo for durability.

I figure that movement's a big thing with them, right?

Well... yes and no. Much of the time that I've used them they move to some terrain that gives them cover and firing arcs and then stay there. Or you're using their Jet Packs to JSJ behind LOS blockers and such. Not mobility in the same way of Wraiths and Scarabs, but you can abuse them to dance in and out of range against certain things.

So it partially depends on the terrain that your meta uses. Lots of huge buildings that you can jump around/behind/on top of? You're in business, JSJ for basically free damage. No terrain and just some 5+ area? Well, you might use the packs to stay out of range of small arms fire.

It's a good perk, though. Never forget about it.

 MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Has anyone done a writeup/battle report of a Destroyer Cult list? I'm building one up but I'm not really knowledgeable on how a handful of AP3 Heavy Bolters and half range Lascannons can be used.

My Youtube channel did a batrep using them. 2000 points, Reclamation Legion + Destroyer Cult + Canoptek Harvest vs. my friend's Eldar (pre-update).

Adequate Wargamers

I haven't done any write big write ups. I have fielded them a few times and commented in this thread on how it went. On paper they don't look that superb, but they almost always hit, and almost always wound thanks to all the re-rolls they get. With decurion they are insanely tough unless targeted with massed equal firepower. Jet pack lets them ignore pretty much everything that would have been bad. A recent game went a little south because I rolled snake eyes for all but 1 unit. However it was still a win.

Only list I have had trouble with so far was a bunch of flyers. So I could see a 3 drake list giving me some issues if they targeted my destroyers ASAP.

Biggest downside of the D-cult is how much cash it is.

 gwarsh41 wrote:

Biggest downside of the D-cult is how much cash it is.

Fortunately the destroyer models have been around for a really long time and there are usually plenty of used ones available. If you don't mind repainting stuff, an ebay salvage job can save you a ton of money.

 MLKTH wrote:

 gwarsh41 wrote:

Biggest downside of the D-cult is how much cash it is.

Fortunately the destroyer models have been around for a really long time and there are usually plenty of used ones available. If you don't mind repainting stuff, an ebay salvage job can save you a ton of money.

Also, if you don't mind retro, you can sometimes find the original metal destroyers for cheap. Although some people use those as tomb blades, they're still legit destroyers.

Has anyone tried running just the Necron formations by themselves?
As in, no Reclamation, no CAD, just pure formations. (I've heard that's a thing that's possible, but I'm just not sure how to do so without going unbound or whether it'd even be worth doing)

I can see a Destroyer Cult with Deathbringer Flight as air support as being pretty vicious, especially if you didn't have to worry about spending points on troops and Overlords.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
As in,

 skoffs wrote:
Has anyone tried running just the Necron formations by themselves?
As in, no Reclamation, no CAD, just pure formations. (I've heard that's a thing that's possible, but I'm just not sure how to do so without going unbound or whether it'd even be worth doing)

I can see a Destroyer Cult with Deathbringer Flight as air support as being pretty vicious, especially if you didn't have to worry about spending points on troops and Overlords.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
As in,

Spoiler:

+ All The D's (1845pts) +

Destroyer Cult (800pts)
• Destroyer Lord [Phase Shifter, The Nightmare Shroud, Warscythe]

• Destroyers [5x Destroyer]
• Destroyers [2x Destroyer, 1x Heavy Destroyer]
• Destroyers [2x Destroyer, 1x Heavy Destroyer]

• Heavy Destroyers [3x Heavy Destroyer]


Destroyer Cult (725pts)
• Destroyer Lord [Phase Shifter, The Gauntlet of the Conflagrator, Warscythe]

• Destroyers [2x Destroyer, 1x Heavy Destroyer]
• Destroyers [2x Destroyer, 1x Heavy Destroyer]
• Destroyers [2x Destroyer, 1x Heavy Destroyer]

• Heavy Destroyers [3x Heavy Destroyer]


Deathbringer Flight (320pts)
• Doom Scythe
• Doom Scythe

It is a perfectly legal thing to do. And it wouldn't be unbound, either. The restrictions for bound require all units in your army to belong to a detachment, that of which Formations are.

I've run one a couple times that was purely Cult/Harvest/Flight/Living Tomb (Obelisk only, no Monoliths). Lots of scary things, no tax. However, you do end up missing the all-arounders a bit. Troops may not be the most glamorous of units, but they're cheap and at least workable against most targets. Losing a Troop feels like nothing, losing a unit of Destroyers, Wraiths, or the Obelisk is a big f'n deal in comparison.

I have a 2000 point two Destroyer cult and Deathbringer flight list. Frankly the Doom Scythes are more or less dead weight most of the time, but they're the support formation that both plugs a small tactical gap (flying stuff, also help a little with Knights) whilst remaining in theme, so.

Fairly obvious tip: Put both Destroyer Lords in the one unit, you get an actual functional assault unit that way.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Chosen Praetorian wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

Imperial Knights aren't that scary. Destroyers will typically ruin their day

Are you talking regular Destroyers, or just heavies?

In my experience it's been both. What's been most important for me is spreading out my cult so I can get shots in on separate arcs so to ignore their saves. If you can do this then the reg destroyers will do a decent number of hull points.

This. ^

Destroyers in general will do damage to most things. Heavies just help that cause more.

If the destroyers are alive for more than one turn of the knight and in range of 24" the night player is not scary because he is bad.

My friend fields a crusader knights sometimes and it has never been anything less than what carries his entire army.

jakejackjake wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Chosen Praetorian wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

Imperial Knights aren't that scary. Destroyers will typically ruin their day

Are you talking regular Destroyers, or just heavies?

In my experience it's been both. What's been most important for me is spreading out my cult so I can get shots in on separate arcs so to ignore their saves. If you can do this then the reg destroyers will do a decent number of hull points.

This. ^

Destroyers in general will do damage to most things. Heavies just help that cause more.

If the destroyers are alive for more than one turn of the knight and in range of 24" the night player is not scary because he is bad.

My friend fields a crusader knights sometimes and it has never been anything less than what carries his entire army.

If the Destroyers stay within 24" of the Knight they deserve to die. Especially Heavies. Thrust move = range dancing and LoS dancing.

And the Crusader is pretty well considered the most broken of all Knight variants.

Can we get the news on warrior blocks? It sounds like fun, but how can you bolster it?

"News"?
Is something new happening to them?

Xafilah wrote:
Can we get the news on warrior blocks? It sounds like fun, but how can you bolster it?

If you mean like how to make them better or how to run them. Just run blobs of 20 with Ghost arks to rez dudes, and maybe add a cryptek with a chronometron for a 5++. Go have fun.

For extra Silver Tide lulz, take the Mephrit Dynasty Resugence Decurion Formation:

1 Monolith
2x Warriors
2x Immortals

Monolith is basically a mega-Ghost Ark, can restore d3 Immortals or d6 Warriors from the Formation.

So, take 2 bricks of 20 Warriors with Ghost Arks, take a Royal Court with 2 Chronometron Crytpeks and the Lord + Overlord with Res Orbs. Laugh as you march up with your 4+/5++/4+++ with possible reroll Warriors that gain d3+d6 models back per turn.

Is it "competitive"? No, but it is freaking hilarious if you just want a blob of Warriors that never, ever die.

I recently proxied a list with my friends models for a devastating combo.

A CAD with two Flyrants and Mucolids, a Destroyer Cult with the goods (x3 5 Destroyers and 3 Heavy Destroyers), a Destroyer Lord with Voidreaper, and a Canoptek Harvest with 5 Wraiths w/ Beamers. It absolutely wrecked.

Well, that begs the question: how exactly did it wreck?

 skoffs wrote:
Well, that begs the question: how exactly did it wreck?

I was facing a few different armies today. A Battle Demi Company where the amount of rerolls for Gauss and the S6 Devourers did awesomely against the Razorbacks. Then was a Scatterbike list, which was the hardest match. However, the Flyrants proved to be awesome distractions whilst the Destroyers got into range to force a ton of Jinks. Wraithknight was ridiculously obnoxious, but there's not much you can do about that, and luckily the Destroyer Lord and Wraiths kept it occupied for a minor part of the game. Lastly was a Greentide list and the massive firepower did wonderfully.

I would highly recommend the list. It was fun to use, at least to me.

Requizen wrote:


Formation doesn't make Praetorians any better at killing tanks, as it only effects shooting.

Regular Destroyers are ok at being anti tank, but only because of the rerolls. They're still only glancing on 6s like the rest of the army, and don't have AP2 or AP1 to explode. For the price of one, you could get 3 Warriors, who have a better chance of doing a hull point if in Rapid Fire range. Which doesn't mean they're bad, just that they're nothing particularly "special" when it comes to anti-tank, especially when you talk things with invuln saves like Imp Knights or other Superheavies (Titans, Greater Brass Scorpions, etc).

As far as anti-tank goes, people love to point out "Gauss glances everything!", but numerically it's not that great compared to armies with actual dedicated anti-tank weaponry or just plain D-guns.

It takes about 9 gauss shots (2/3 and 1/6) to get a glance, with a re-roll from destroyers (2/3 and 11/36) its a little less than 5 (11 in 54) gauss shots per glance. Comparing them price wise, You are loosing out if you use destroyers instead of warriors to shoot at hard targets (12+ av). Destroyers should avoid shooting at hard targets when SMEQ targets are available.

As for gauss glances everything argument, that's a trickier cat to skin. All other things being equal, you want to shoot at where you can inflict the most damage points wise (the moneyball rule of 40k). With that in mind, lets look at that 9 shots per glance/wound and compare it against other targets you could be shooting at with warriors. SMEQ are a hard target (2/3 * 1/2 * 1/3), it takes about 9 shots to get a wound through, for a return of 15ish points. Tau warrior and other medium armor troops are easier targets (2/3 * 2/3 * 1/2) with about 2 in 9 shots getting a wound for a return of 20ish points. For very light infantry it's about 4 in 9 (2/3 * 2/3) for a return 28ish points.

For vehicles 9 shots against a land raider will get you 1/4 of the LR which is 62ish points, for a predator you could be doing between 18ish points or upwards of 30pts per 9 shots depending on it's config. So moneyball wise guass allows your warriors to be as effective or more effective against vehicles/MCs as they are against other troop choices. A 20 man warrior squad will generally be inferior to a dedicated devastator squad (unless they are in rapid fire range), but is quite a bit more than twice as tough, and able to engage a large variety of targets.

20 warriors Compared (260 points) to a full devastator squad with lascannons (220 pts), here is how the math works out:

AV 14: Warriors 2/4(RF) glances/HP; Devastators (2/3 * 1/3) 1 HP and a (2/3 * 1/6 *1/6) 1 in 54 chance of outright destruction per canon for a total chance of destruction of 7.2% or 1 in 15
AV 13: Warriors 2/4(RF) glances/HP; Devastators (2/3 * 1/2) 1 HP and a (2/3 * 1/3 * 1/6) 1 in 27 chance of killing it out right per cannon for a total chance of destruction of 14% or 3 in 20
AV 12: Warriors 2/4(RF) glances/HP; Devastators (2/3 * 2/3) 2 HP and a (2/3 * 1/2 * 1/6) 1 in 18 chance of killing it out right per cannon for a total chance of destruction of 20% or 1 in 5
AV 11: Warriors 2/4(RF) glances/HP; Devastators (2/3 * 5/6) 3 HP and a (2/3 * 2/3 * 1/6) 1 in 12ish chance of killing it out right per cannon for a total chance of destruction of 30% or 1 in 3ish

So warriors are better than devastators on AV 14, 13, (and 12 if they are in rapid fire range), and devastators are better on AV 11 and more often than not 12. So yes numerically speaking gauss en masse gives generalist units like warriors specialist like results against vehicles. However the more expensive the unit the less advantageous gauss is, because the volume of fire is less. The lesson here being destroyers are terrible at anti-vehicle duties they are meant for taking out space marines, and that if you are having problems with armor bring more warriors.

ATC results are in. You know what Necrons brought?

Wraiths. 15 Wraiths. 18 Wraiths. 24 Wraiths! That's a lot of Wraiths.

That many is boring, though. You're basically just playing Canoptek Army now, not even Necrons. But, if that's your thing, it seems to be the way to go now.

Got a link to placing details?
I'm interested to see how Wraiths Wraiths Wraiths did...

http://whatc.org/

Click on "View Live Results". Then you can go here:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B1UJJbcAXWEGfnZ3WjlsX0U0TnJZRDd3ZWI5Q0JBTEo1SFQwNVpvV3RFeGVvdmV1ZGZoX1k&usp=sharing#
To find team/player/roster.

Best Necron was 15, but the format was no restrictions to Eldar so there were 11 in the top 20 with their 3-5 Wraithknight lists.

Grimgold wrote:

Requizen wrote:


Formation doesn't make Praetorians any better at killing tanks, as it only effects shooting.

Regular Destroyers are ok at being anti tank, but only because of the rerolls. They're still only glancing on 6s like the rest of the army, and don't have AP2 or AP1 to explode. For the price of one, you could get 3 Warriors, who have a better chance of doing a hull point if in Rapid Fire range. Which doesn't mean they're bad, just that they're nothing particularly "special" when it comes to anti-tank, especially when you talk things with invuln saves like Imp Knights or other Superheavies (Titans, Greater Brass Scorpions, etc).

As far as anti-tank goes, people love to point out "Gauss glances everything!", but numerically it's not that great compared to armies with actual dedicated anti-tank weaponry or just plain D-guns.

It takes about 9 gauss shots (2/3 and 1/6) to get a glance, with a re-roll from destroyers (2/3 and 11/36) its a little less than 5 (11 in 54) gauss shots per glance. Comparing them price wise, You are loosing out if you use destroyers instead of warriors to shoot at hard targets (12+ av). Destroyers should avoid shooting at hard targets when SMEQ targets are available.

Destroyers also get to reroll 1s when rolling to hit due to Preferred Enemy. Warriors do not. So if you're comparing regular destroyers directly to warriors for killing 12+ AV...

3 Warriors = 39 points which is close to the cost of 1 destroyer. Assuming both are firing at 24" range you get 3 shots for warriors vs 2 shots for destroyers.

Assuming Destroyers are in a cult (no one takes them in a CAD anymore).

3 warrior shots deals 3*(2/3)*(1/6) = .333 HP.
2 destroyer shots deals 2 * ((2/3)+((1/6)*(2/3))) * ((1/6)+((5/6)*(1/6))) = .475 HP

So destroyers do slightly better than warriors against AV 12+. The Warriors only outperform when in rapid fire range, but to assume that you'll be in rapid fire range with warriors against a Predator or Land Raider is folly.

Though your advice is still sound that you should avoid shooting hard targets with Destroyers if you have warriors that can do it instead. But, I wouldn't dump too many points into warriors thinking that they'll be better than destroyers at shooting hard targets.

Well, if you're using Night Scythes to get them into Rapid Fire range, then it's a different story. As much as I'm not yet sold as a fan of Scythespam in 7e, it's very satisfying to drop 10 Warriors on top of a vehicle and wreck it out of nowhere.

Zimko wrote:

Grimgold wrote:

Requizen wrote:


Formation doesn't make Praetorians any better at killing tanks, as it only effects shooting.

Regular Destroyers are ok at being anti tank, but only because of the rerolls. They're still only glancing on 6s like the rest of the army, and don't have AP2 or AP1 to explode. For the price of one, you could get 3 Warriors, who have a better chance of doing a hull point if in Rapid Fire range. Which doesn't mean they're bad, just that they're nothing particularly "special" when it comes to anti-tank, especially when you talk things with invuln saves like Imp Knights or other Superheavies (Titans, Greater Brass Scorpions, etc).

As far as anti-tank goes, people love to point out "Gauss glances everything!", but numerically it's not that great compared to armies with actual dedicated anti-tank weaponry or just plain D-guns.

It takes about 9 gauss shots (2/3 and 1/6) to get a glance, with a re-roll from destroyers (2/3 and 11/36) its a little less than 5 (11 in 54) gauss shots per glance. Comparing them price wise, You are loosing out if you use destroyers instead of warriors to shoot at hard targets (12+ av). Destroyers should avoid shooting at hard targets when SMEQ targets are available.

Destroyers also get to reroll 1s when rolling to hit due to Preferred Enemy. Warriors do not. So if you're comparing regular destroyers directly to warriors for killing 12+ AV...

3 Warriors = 39 points which is close to the cost of 1 destroyer. Assuming both are firing at 24" range you get 3 shots for warriors vs 2 shots for destroyers.

Assuming Destroyers are in a cult (no one takes them in a CAD anymore).

3 warrior shots deals 3*(2/3)*(1/6) = .333 HP.
2 destroyer shots deals 2 * ((2/3)+((1/6)*(2/3))) * ((1/6)+((5/6)*(1/6))) = .475 HP

So destroyers do slightly better than warriors against AV 12+. The Warriors only outperform when in rapid fire range, but to assume that you'll be in rapid fire range with warriors against a Predator or Land Raider is folly.

Though your advice is still sound that you should avoid shooting hard targets with Destroyers if you have warriors that can do it instead. But, I wouldn't dump too many points into warriors thinking that they'll be better than destroyers at shooting hard targets.

Yup, the preferred enemy put them over the top. If the warriors get to rapid fire one in 3 rounds it's just about even. Of course the only thing that would intentionally get that close to a warrior block is an assault transport, which brings its own problems (pun intended). Though with two transports, the monolith, and nightmare shroud, there are plenty of ways to get warriors close enough to a vehicle to ruin it's day.

Anyone having any luck with the Praetorians and their formation?
I see tons about the Cult and the Harvest, even a bit about the Deathbringer Flight, but not much about the Judicator Battalion.
Particularly I'm interested to see how those dedicated Night Scythes are with rerolls to pen (no comment on whether Praetorians can even get inside their plane. There are other places to discuss that).
Also, how are Stalkers doing? Just the one, or do you get a couple more?

 skoffs wrote:
Anyone having any luck with the Praetorians and their formation?
I see tons about the Cult and the Harvest, even a bit about the Deathbringer Flight, but not much about the Judicator Battalion.
Particularly I'm interested to see how those dedicated Night Scythes are with rerolls to pen (no comment on whether Praetorians can even get inside their plane. There are other places to discuss that).
Also, how are Stalkers doing? Just the one, or do you get a couple more?

Great formation in a Decurion, although the Stalker is vulnerable to giving up first blood.

The Night Scythe trick is decent, however until it gets re-FAQed to be able to pick up troops again, the overall cost of that combo is pretty close to a cult for the same outcome.