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Gotcha, amazing unit but not 5th edition Paladin unit scary.

I don't know why someone would use Wraiths instead of Lychguard with Orikan.
-it slows them down, where as Lychguard are already that slow to begin with.
-they're dependent on the Spyder to get RP and therefore the reroll, where as Lychguard come with it stock.
-Orikan does nothing to help their offensive capability, where as adding a Destroyer Lord grants them rerolls to their rending.

Has anyone used both?
Is there something I'm missing here?

The problem I have with Necron slow cc units is that they don't really have a place in a game with rerollable 2++ and invisibility.

 Tyran wrote:
The problem I have with Necron slow cc units is that they don't really have a place in a game with rerollable 2++ and invisibility.

That's where Wraiths come in: they're fast and they don't care so much about killing things (their main objective is to tarpit the things that would otherwise annoy you... like a rerollable 2++/invisible thing).

Scoffs I used lychguard in 5th when they were more expensive I would certainly make a deathstar with them now that they are better and cheaper. My deathstar back in day had the crypteks which allowed a re-roll per turn and your telling me there is a character who does it for cheaper, I agree with you.

People dont understand board presence and threat range.

What're you guys running for Adepticon rules this edition? Did a quick google and couldn't come up with anything out there, so I figured I would see what you guys were cooking up. I have a practice league coming up for Adepticon and have some ideas, but they're pretty incomplete right now.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 skoffs wrote:
I don't know why someone would use Wraiths instead of Lychguard with Orikan.
-it slows them down, where as Lychguard are already that slow to begin with.
-they're dependent on the Spyder to get RP and therefore the reroll, where as Lychguard come with it stock.
-Orikan does nothing to help their offensive capability, where as adding a Destroyer Lord grants them rerolls to their rending.

Has anyone used both?
Is there something I'm missing here?

I use Orikan with wraiths(harvest ones)and trans beamers only when I also stick in Oby for mantle. Makes a great T1 attack and is close enough anyways to a.) survive shooting to b.)charge t2

 Tyran wrote:
The problem I have with Necron slow cc units is that they don't really have a place in a game with rerollable 2++ and invisibility.

That's not it. They can roll with Invis and 2++ deathstars - they have comparable survival, especially the Orikanstar.

The issue with slow CC units, is that all the other good Deathstars in the game are fast. Screamerstar, SM Bikers, Scatbikes/Bikestars, Wolfstars, all 12" moves and other things like Fleet, Thrust moves, etc. Gargantuans move 12". Drop Pods can be anywhere they need to be. Draigo Centstars have Gate. 6" move and normal run/charge just doesn't cut it, even with MTC. Wraiths are 12" that ignores all terrain and Fleet for Run/Charge, with similar survival power.

We have Obyron/Veil for teleporting shenanigans... but that's a one-off and no scatter reduction, so big point Deathstars are scared to mishap into death, or into a bad position where they'll be just as useless as if they walked.

Night Scythes can drop you to where you need to be, but then you're at the mercy of Reserve rolls and if you're a melee Deathstar (which all of ours are, at the moment), then you're looking at a Turn 3 charge at the earliest, which can be big, but can also be too little too late. You can't have an expensive Deathstar sitting in Reserves hoping that the rest of your army holds on until they arrive, especially with so much Alpha Strike and big scary things in the game right now.

 CKO wrote:


Gotcha, amazing unit but not 5th edition Paladin unit scary.

Hrm, I dunno about that.

They don't have quite the same killing power of a 5E GK Paladin deathstar, but the resiliency of that unit is beyond absurd against both quantity and quality of fire, far beyond what that GK unit could have ever dreamed of.

But you couldnt just kill a 3 wound creature thats not part of the unit and reduce the durability dramatically.

 CKO wrote:
But you couldnt just kill a 3 wound creature thats not part of the unit and reduce the durability dramatically.

True, though that's another thing they have to engage, and is something that can be mitigated, not to mention those 3 wounds are on a T6 MC with RP itself, which can require a pretty fair amount of firepower on its own (assuming no cover and 4+ RP, you'd need something like ~14 BS4 plasma gun shots on average) . Not impossible, but enough that there's not likely much to be thrown around elsewhere in most cases.

If you want a deathstar that has more mobility than lychguard, I'd suggest using praetorians. It's quite possible to string along the characters (Orikan at the minimum) in a big unit without really slowing them down much. If played correctly, the unit has the same reach and threat range as they would without the slower models. Only problem is that you won't get quite as many models into combat on the first round because they're likely to be spread to a large area.

The reason I'm using lychguard instead is that I love decurion, and the preatorian formation is way too expensive to be taken with a royal court. In a CAD it's a different story.

Strats I want to try that aren't Deathstars:

Night Scythes + Wraiths

Used to be the meta crusher in 5e, but things change. Still good, but with NScythes being more expensive and lacking the old Royal Court special weapons hurts. But, it's still Zooming Transports and Wraiths (which are better than before). Speed is the name of the game right now imo, and Wraiths can tie up or kill many things while allowing our Troops to get to Objectives. So... probably still good.

Not sure if it works better in a CAD or a Decurion. ObSec dropping out of Flyers is pretty huge, especially for end-of-game objectives. But, of course, Decurion is Decurion, and keeping NScythes from getting Stunned is pretty solid.

Doomsday Arks on a Skyshield

S10 AP1 Large Blasts on AV13 HP4 4++ vehicle? Two of them? Yeah, that works. Like Vindicators on Steroids. You can probably fit 2 on there, and then bubble wrap it with Warriors and the like, especially if they have Chronometron Cryptek support. Suddenly, Necrons have solid siege power, while fast stuff moves up the field.

The firepower is similar to Heavy Destroyers. Better Strength/AP/Range and a Blast, but Blast has the issue of scattering, and doesn't get all of the great rerolls that Destroyers get (especially in the formation). So, it could give us the ranged damage oomph that Necrons somewhat lack.

Scarab Farm/Swarm

I only have 3 Spyders :\

I still think this is a gimmick. It'll work like two times before it becomes obsolete. But, it should be a fun two times, getting a massive blob of Harvest Scarabs, especially if you add in the Chronometron Cryptek for extra RP and 5++. Maybe a toned down version in a more balanced list could work, but losing Spyders means your blob doesn't get too big fast enough. Worth trying, though.

Mass Flyers with Allies

CSM are Allies of Convenience with good flyers. Heldrakes, Princes, Be'Lakor, Blight Drones, Hell Blades - all very good. We have good flyers in Scythes and possibly even the Night Shroud.

If everything is in the air and you kill the things that can shoot up, it's a pretty good position. Trust.

Well, CAD + Harvest could get you 10-12 (for reasons we all know and shouldn't get into) Spyders generating 10-12 scarabs per turn, and firing S6 twin linked blast templates. Add in an Obelisk to crowd around and give many of the Spyders repair claws, and have say... Szeras and two immortal units for your base requirements advancing up one flank to Obsec an objective or two during the chaos.

If your opponent isn't properly equipped to stop that, you could produce a massive multi-charge from turn 3 onwards.

changemod wrote:
Well, CAD + Harvest could get you 10-12 (for reasons we all know and shouldn't get into) Spyders generating 10-12 scarabs per turn, and firing S6 twin linked blast templates. Add in an Obelisk to crowd around and give many of the Spyders repair claws, and have say... Szeras and two immortal units for your base requirements advancing up one flank to Obsec an objective or two during the chaos.

If your opponent isn't properly equipped to stop that, you could produce a massive multi-charge from turn 3 onwards.

It seems nice until anything with long range artillery or Stomps comes up and ruins your day. It's a really rock/paper/scissors list, either you win through massive swarm and lots of MCs or they have the ability to deal with it and you basically instalose.

Which isn't necessarily bad, mind you.

RE scatterbikes: AV13?
I love ghost arks in my decurion now.

zerosignal wrote:
RE scatterbikes: AV13?
I love ghost arks in my decurion now.

Not against the AV13 cracking Strength D coming your way. They'll crack'em open like an candied egg and leave the nougat center for the scatterbikes.

zerosignal wrote:
RE scatterbikes: AV13?
I love ghost arks in my decurion now.

Open topped Ghost Arks? How about that Strength D Flamer that's deep striking next to it. Farewell, Warriors. And Ghost Ark.

Requizen wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
RE scatterbikes: AV13?
I love ghost arks in my decurion now.

Open topped Ghost Arks? How about that Strength D Flamer that's deep striking next to it. Farewell, Warriors. And Ghost Ark.

Eh, they wouldn't even make their points back. 200 points for 5 dudes, and minimum 90 for an archon with a WWP? Pssshh, they can have my 235 point ghost ark and warriors.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Requizen wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
RE scatterbikes: AV13?
I love ghost arks in my decurion now.

Open topped Ghost Arks? How about that Strength D Flamer that's deep striking next to it. Farewell, Warriors. And Ghost Ark.

Eh, they wouldn't even make their points back. 200 points for 5 dudes, and minimum 90 for an archon with a WWP? Pssshh, they can have my 235 point ghost ark and warriors.

Best way I've seen it done is with a WWB in some open topped DE vehicle. Deep Strikes perfectly, fires out flamer templates from anywhere on the hull, then moves into position next turn to do again.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Requizen wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
RE scatterbikes: AV13?
I love ghost arks in my decurion now.

Open topped Ghost Arks? How about that Strength D Flamer that's deep striking next to it. Farewell, Warriors. And Ghost Ark.

Eh, they wouldn't even make their points back. 200 points for 5 dudes, and minimum 90 for an archon with a WWP? Pssshh, they can have my 235 point ghost ark and warriors.

Well, to be fair. They lost 0 points and you lost 235 points. The only way it's a trade is if you manage to wipe out the unit on the following turn without using more than 290 points worth of models to do so.

Zimko wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Requizen wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
RE scatterbikes: AV13?
I love ghost arks in my decurion now.

Open topped Ghost Arks? How about that Strength D Flamer that's deep striking next to it. Farewell, Warriors. And Ghost Ark.

Eh, they wouldn't even make their points back. 200 points for 5 dudes, and minimum 90 for an archon with a WWP? Pssshh, they can have my 235 point ghost ark and warriors.

Well, to be fair. They lost 0 points and you lost 235 points. The only way it's a trade is if you manage to wipe out the unit on the following turn without using more than 290 points worth of models to do so.

Which is where lychguard come in. At 250 points.

Ffyllotek wrote:

Zimko wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Requizen wrote:

zerosignal wrote:
RE scatterbikes: AV13?
I love ghost arks in my decurion now.

Open topped Ghost Arks? How about that Strength D Flamer that's deep striking next to it. Farewell, Warriors. And Ghost Ark.

Eh, they wouldn't even make their points back. 200 points for 5 dudes, and minimum 90 for an archon with a WWP? Pssshh, they can have my 235 point ghost ark and warriors.

Well, to be fair. They lost 0 points and you lost 235 points. The only way it's a trade is if you manage to wipe out the unit on the following turn without using more than 290 points worth of models to do so.

Which is where lychguard come in. At 250 points.

Do you really think a unit with a perfect deep strike that can deploy anywhere on the map would drop near a dedicated assault unit?

Actually haha scratch that. Yeah, go ahead and charge DScythe Wraithguard. d3 autohits at Strength D when you charge. Shield dudes would survive, but 250 means scythes and if you're charging that with no invuln save I have bad news for you.

The WWP D-scythe attack is a real problem for Necrons. The best counter starts with your list. Go MSU so that losing any one unit won't be a serious blow and bubble wrap your HQ or vehicles. If you lose a Ghost Arc and it's load of warriors to D-Scythes then you made a big mistake. Either bubble wrap the Arc or start the warriors outside the arc. D-scythes can only kill the models in range so if you spread out enough then that should limit the damage since wounds won't carry over into the models outside their range.

Then either use Destroyers to wipe them out or risk charging with Wraiths (You'll lose on average 2 Wraiths if charging 5 D-scythes. But that could vary wildly depending on the rolls.)

Either way, the D-scythes will get their punches in. It's just a matter of limiting the damage.

Yeah, anything melee versus that unit sounds like a bad idea.
Destroyers are definitely the preferred eradication method, there.
D.Cult VS D.Scythes, cult should win.

....Deathmarks.

 Ferros wrote:
....Deathmarks.

What about them?

Hi guys I have a game coming up against a Adeptus Mechanicus War Convocation at 1850 and im pretty new to 40k.

What are your thoughts about the best possible Necron list to win against this? as well as any tips on how to beat them / play to their weakness?

All models and units are available to me as i can borrow units from other Necron players so any suggestions are welcome.

Thank you before hand for any advice..

Take Tomb Blades. Piles of Tomb Blades. As many as you can get your hands on. The war convocation has access to that army-wide stealth+shrouded canticle, and can re-use a canticle, so he'll have 2+ cover saves all over the place. Tomb Blades go all honey badger all over that. Gauss Blades, at AP4, deal with the grav kataphrons while Particle Blades drop double-toughness hits on the sicarians to deny FNP and ID their 2-wound butts. It's pretty brutal.

Edit:

Never mind, rule was on some other, separate page that didn't make sense so I didn't see it


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Instead, I'm going to muse on ObSec and Decurion. Initially, I think everyone was wary of the Decurion and losing ObSec, even for the 4+ RP. Then, they tried it, realized that ObSec isn't always required (especially in Maelstrom) and that 4+ RP is really, really good, and suddenly CAD Necrons began to die out.

But ObSec still wins games, especially if you play Eternal War or other end-of-game objective scenarios. And our Warrior/Immortal blocks are incredibly hard to kill off of objectives without charging them, which makes them good even if you footslog them up the field or park them in Ruins.

4+ RP is still fairly readily available with Crypteks and the special Cryptek characters, and it's not like 5+ is bad at any rate (ask anyone else how much they would like FNP+ on their entire army except for a few units). Plus, you can bring Formations for all their bonuses as well.

However, it's not just 4+ RP that you get from Decurion. MTC is a huge bonus for Tomb Blades, as they can reliably jump into ruins for a cover save without jinking, something that becomes scary if you take them in a CAD. If you play with a lot of Terrain, footslogging Warriors/Immortals get slowed a lot as well. Any vehicles you bring will also miss being able to ignore Crew Stunned, especially the shooty ones.

So what it comes down to for me is, in theory, that if you want ObSec, you can't really focus on Tomb Blades (which sucks because they're great), and you're still encouraged to bring the rest of your units in Formations if you can (Wraiths and Scarabs in the Harvest for obvious reasons, Destroyers want MTC and rerolls from the Cult, if you're bringing more than 1 Doom Scythe why not the formation anyway, etc). It creates kind of an interesting tradeoff that I've been enjoying in my list making.

With the inclusion of the Space Marine Battle Company and all the ObSec in the world that they bring, I feel a bit more pressure to get ObSec if only to contest, and with more armies getting ObSec-less Detachments/Formations, having some of our own becomes more compelling so we can steal objectives with Night Scythe Troops.

CAD Night Scythe Troops vs Decurion Tomb Blades make a good comparison. Both are highly mobile, but one has ObSec and the other is very durable and has a bunch of other bonuses. Perhaps a very fast Necron list might make use of a Decurion for Tomb Blades and hardy troops while also bringing a CAD/Allied (depending on the tournament) for late game ObSec? You'd have very few heavy/special weapons, but a lot of small arms fire and high mobility/objective control with a list like that.

 FL5 wrote:
Take Tomb Blades. Piles of Tomb Blades. As many as you can get your hands on. The war convocation has access to that army-wide stealth+shrouded canticle, and can re-use a canticle, so he'll have 2+ cover saves all over the place. Tomb Blades go all honey badger all over that. Gauss Blades, at AP4, deal with the grav kataphrons while Particle Blades drop double-toughness hits on the sicarians to deny FNP and ID their 2-wound butts. It's pretty brutal.

Ok cool.. so in a Reclamation region i can fit 30 Tomblades in.. which mix would you suggest 20 with Particle beamers and 10 with Gauss or the other way around? (30 TB's is however a lot of points) Further more what else would you put in there?

2x Ghost arcs for the warriors?
A destroyer cult formation?
Canoptek harvest formation?
Maybe a Orican death star?
Conclave of the burning one death star?
Or maybe even a Deathbringer flight? dont know how good the warconvecations AA defense is?

Plus whats your suggestion on HQ, Nemessor Zahndrekh i assume? or is their a better choice..

Yet again thx for any answers and help guys, much appreciated..