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 Tyran wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It still a myth Necrons are easily swept in combat. Our lowly Warrior in a Decurion has a 75% chance to ignore a wound already Inflicted. Compare to a Tactical Marine, who needs 4's to hit and wound, and I'm pretty sure they only have less than a 10% chance.

They are easily swept by melee units. But they are good against non-melee units.

Same argument for anything not based around melee. Anything that's going to win a combat in the first place, like Wraithknights or TWC, is probably just going to kill them out right. With things like Assault Marines or Boyz and the like (essentially things mediocre in melee), they're not going to be swept.

Warriors are pretty good at tarpitting stuff, even some not-so-killy melee units. I once tied up a screamer-star for pretty much the entire game (they did their turbo-boost-attack-thing turn 1 and thought it was safe to land within a few inches of my warriors). Needless to say, my opponent never again made the assumption that necron warriors won't charge you if you go near them...

For a warrior-spam list (or silver tide, as some call it) I'd take command barges instead of Zahndrekh, actually. The Ld re-roll bubble is usually good enough and can affect more units, especially if you take two of them

I have to echo this abotu warriors. The amount of AP4 and below stuff that is brought into CC is quite small unless you're facing off dedcated CC units. So they only have 1/4 chance of dying to a wound, and most units are going to be S3 or S4, so that goes to 1/8 or 1/12. I think warriors are, frankly, amazeballs.

So then what, pray tell, are Immortals good for anymore?

 skoffs wrote:
So then what, pray tell, are Immortals good for anymore?

They're tougher than Warriors. While 3+ is only the next stage up from 4+, it's much harder to ignore and much more survivable on a statistical level.

They are a good way to take Night Scythes. Cheaper than Warriors, and against many targets Gauss Immortals are much scarier to drop out than Warriors.

Min units of Immortals make good Troop Tax. 5 Immortals sitting in Ruins in your back field taking pot shots at anything that stumbles into range are nothing special, but as far as cheap holders go they're some of the best in the game - sturdy to the stray shot that comes their way, decent guns for the cost, and able to tie up any non-assault units that try to take your backfield.

Immortals are fine. Warriors are for when you want big blobs footslogging up the field and don't care what happens to your chump Troops. Immortals are if you want a bit more throughput from your individual models. Either are decent choices, depending on what your army is trying to do and what you want out of that slot.

Fulfilling minimum requirements for the Decurion, providing a small bodyguard for Nemesor if you don't want him in a melee star (I do this for example, since I mostly use reserve manipulation and other Warlord traits), and providing ablative wounds for a suicide drop Scythe with a Conflagration Overlord. Also camping on an objective.

So there's not a lot, but they're cheaper to start with than Warriors.

So they're basically only good for being annoying (jump onto objectives from Scythes, not so easy to kill, taking potshots at things, etc.)
That's kinda disappointing.
Tomb Blades do the same job, but better.

 skoffs wrote:
So they're basically only good for being annoying (jump onto objectives from Scythes, not so easy to kill, taking potshots at things, etc.)
That's kinda disappointing.
Tomb Blades do the same job, but better.

Scythes are not to be discounted. Surprise jumping on a point from 24" away and still shooting is not something that Tomb Blades can do, and Immortals can do it ObSec if you're in a CAD. And even with a price increase, Night Scythes are some of the best flyers in the game pound for pound, so Immortals being the cheapest way to get them into your list is good.

But yes, they're not overwhelmingly good. And that's fine. Troops shouldn't be power units, they should be baseline things that other units are based off of - well rounded but nothing special. Eldar got spoiled with Scatbikes being broken, but, much like the lowly Tactical Marine, Immortals shouldn't be the hammer of your army.

Requizen wrote:
and Immortals can do it ObSec if you're in a CAD.

But let's be honest - what are the chances of that?

Immortals are individually superior but mathematically slightly less efficient than Warriors... So they're absolutely fine, one of the best basic troops in the game and only "held back", if you can even call it that, by sharing a codex and FoC slot with something a touch more point efficient.

What are Immortals good for? Being a highly durable troop choice with a weapon that's above average strength against other troops and able to force saves on anything big when rolling sixes.

I field 'em because it fits the character of my dynasty better, and because the codex is literally so good I started other forces to get a challenge again so it's not like the 2% efficiency loss is noticeable.

Just picked up my first 500pts of Necrons and wanted to run some things by the veterans of the army. I've only played against them once and my opponent was rolling so bad it wasn't a good representation of the notorious survivability, so I have next to no experience.

Destroyers are a must have, but I'm seeing that a lot of the Warlord Traits are kinda bleh for a Destroyer Lord. Should I bite the bullet and make another model my Warlord? An Overlord or CCB? The CCB doesn't seem like 'Warlord' material at first glance. Good for the HQ in a Decurion, but Warlord looks better elsewhere.

Are Praetorians any good? Jump AP2 shooting and Melee is very tempting, and in a Decurion the Stalker would be good with the Destroyers to give BS5 with rerolls of 1. But is it worth dropping the Canoptek Harvest at 1850?

Basic army build I'm looking at, when I don't want to be nice, is a Decurion, Canoptek Harvest (or Judicator thingy) and Destroyer Cult. Seems like the common build and it just so happens, those are the models that actually interest me, so I don't mind playing that way. But am I missing out on something else? Some other hidden gem that meshes?

Warriors get Ghost Arcs, five Tomb Blades with Shield Vanes and Ignores Cover, total of 11 Destroyers, three Heavy Destroyers and the rest is minimum requirements for those Formations. Destroyer Lord with the Shroud (2+ Armor one, right?), Ressurection Orb, Staff and Phylantry while the Overlord has nothing but the Staff.

In friendly games it'll just be a Destroyer Cult and CAD, and I'm less concerned about making the right choices there. Stalker, maybe that Forge World centipede thing, throw some UFOs with Death Rays out there. I forgot what they are called... But I'd like a strong army that isn't Space Marines. Already too many Marine players where I play at and I don't want to build my Astral Claws or Ultramarines to that level in local tournaments and such.

Obviously, once I get robotic boots to the table I'll see more of what works for me, but since I'm currently building three other armies too, I'd like to keep erroneous spending to a minimum. Honestly, I only started Necrons because I didn't make any of my Ork auctions and got pissy about it. Necrons had been on the back burner as the army I start next, but I hadn't even begun researching what was good. Cheap(ish) auctions drew me in ahead of schedule.

Hey guys, love this thread.

I hate to cross post, but I can't bump my own board and all; help me out with this list? I'm afraid it's just going to vanish in the crowd, and I'd appreciate feedback.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/667598.page

It's not a competitive list. Hardly any of our top units or formations in there. I'm more of a fan of the oldcron style.

Whatever's playable and fun for the opponent. I'm sensing burnout when it comes to wraiths, decurions, and undeniable RP saves.

EDIT: I added an updated list a few posts down as an alternative.

So adding a Void Shield Generator to a scarab farm list works really well and helps to minimize the amount the opponent can interfere you in your plan to generate 880 points of free scarabs by turn 4 and flood the board with fearless canoptek things.

The type of protection it offers works well with the early turn need of castling up to protect the swarm incubators.

It also works well with the way in which the scarab units grow out naturally in congo lines. As long as you keep a single scarab base within 12" of the VSG the whole scarab horde is immune to small arms fire, very well-protected from shooting attacks (including witchfire), and can be used to do cool things like eat D-Scythe overwatch.

Oh and it also brings a handy large BLOS terrain to use for completely hiding key units on turn 1 (e.g. the harvest spyders).

Plus, if you are going against a drop pod army or a drop deathstar or gating deathstar, you can deploy the VSG nearer a battlefield corner to make it easy to cover all the inner bubble real estate with monsters and beasts and swarms and to force the drop pods etc. to land outside the VSG bubble.

Of course an army with ranged D can use that to efficiently knock down the VSG for a turn so additional protection can be had in 2 crypteks (both with chronometron, 1 with solar staff) attached to the scarab units.

Another tidbit of fun is that grav weaponry does not work against the VSG.

col_impact wrote:

It also works well with the way in which the scarab units grow out naturally in congo lines. As long as you keep a single scarab base within 12" of the VSG the whole scarab horde is immune to small arms fire, very well-protected from shooting attacks (including witchfire), and can be used to do cool things like eat D-Scythe overwatch.

Absolutely disgusting.

Tentacles from a central hub: it's like a nano-cephalopod, or those swarms from the Matrix.... Neat for a purely canoptek army.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Destroyers are a must have, but I'm seeing that a lot of the Warlord Traits are kinda bleh for a Destroyer Lord. Should I bite the bullet and make another model my Warlord? An Overlord or CCB? The CCB doesn't seem like 'Warlord' material at first glance. Good for the HQ in a Decurion, but Warlord looks better elsewhere.

I often use a Destroyer Lord as my Warlord, and am generally happy with him. They can hide in units, and are also very resilient (even on their own). In terms of Warlord traits, Zealot is the one you want because it makes him fearless (really useful) and also helps him out with WS4.

The best warlord though is probably Nemessor Zandrekh. Though, I rarely use him because I dislike special characters.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:

Are Praetorians any good? Jump AP2 shooting and Melee is very tempting, and in a Decurion the Stalker would be good with the Destroyers to give BS5 with rerolls of 1. But is it worth dropping the Canoptek Harvest at 1850?

Could you not fit all 3 formations in at 1850?

I've used 1500pt lists with both Destroyer Cult and Judicator Battalion (with quite a bit of gear on my characters). I'm pretty sure you could easily squeeze a Canoptek Harvest in with an extra 350pts.

Hey, what's everybody use in low point games? (500-1000 point)
High point games are usually never a problem (just load up on your favorite formations), but the point restrictive matches normally have me stumped.
Is a Decurion even viable at that level, or is it CAD only?
Obviously Tomb Blades are a must either way.
Vehicles not worth it? I had been considering a Stalker, but seeing as how one of their main draws is buffing the shooting for the rest of your guns, and I won't have points for a lot of extra guns, that probably won't be a good choice (not to mention the whole there's-one-vehicle-on-the-table-quick-point-all-the-anti-AV-stuff-at-it problem you're going to run into).
Ghost Arks... also probably not, no?

I played a few 600pt games a while back.

One list was a Decurion with flayed ones (and IIRC a bit of gear on the overlord). The resiliency really helped and I basically rolled by opponent.

The other list I tried was a Destroyer Cult. That also worked pretty well, though still lost the game. Incidentally, Maelstrom can go suck a gauss rifle.

Basically, in low point games, don't take Special Characters unless you desperately need/want one (Szeras is pretty good in low point games), don't take Formations unless that's what your entire army is going to be (Destroyer Cult, for example), and don't take more than 1 vehicle.

Best is to have a good mix of small sized units with different guns, and maybe one assault unit (some Scarabs, a unit of Spyders, or a blob of Flayed Ones).

Actually yeah, Spyders are pretty great in low point games. 2 of them only comes to 100 points and is 6 wounds at T6, most armies would have problems dealing with that at low points values.

As far as I can tell, the best units for each category in low points games seem to be:
HQ - cheapest generic ones (probably just a Lord, maybe with a Veil)
Troops - Immortals
Elite - Flayed Ones
Fast - Tomb Blades and/or Scarabs
Heavy - Heavy Destroyers and/or Spyders

Yeah, you could probably make a pretty decent sub-1000 point CAD with that.

So, Tau are in full steam now. Why is this a big deal to this thread? Well, they're one of our 3 (4 if you count Renegades) Allies of Convenience. And given that Orks don't bring a lot to us and the rest are CtA (which I personally am not a huge fan of), that means they're pretty worth considering.

Riptides can be taken in units of 3 now, if you feel like being that type of person. And they have a proper Gargantuan, though it becomes a bit of an issue fitting one into a Necron list if we really want it.

They have Formations as well, which is a nice alternative to an Allied Detachment if we want to add certain models to our force. Main ones worth looking at in my book are the new Optimized Stealth Cadre for tank hunting and generally good units, and the updated Fire Base Support Cadre, which no longer gives PE(Space Marines), but now gives Tank Hunter and Monster Hunter if everything shoots at the same unit, and no longer requires 3 man Broadside teams. 2 Broadsides to get a unit of 3 Riptides into a Necron army is a decent investment, though I guess you could get the same with an Allied Detachment (though lose the USRs).

Riptides aren't exactly necessary for Necrons to have, but they are a great fire magnet and have the ability to put out some pretty stupid amount of shooting if they get rolling with Nova Charges. I could perhaps see myself picking up one of those two formations to stick onto my Necrons on occasion.

The loveliest thing for us, I think, is the new Tidewall Rampart thingy that they got. As of yet, there is no distinction that it can only be taken by Tau, and it will be sold in sections very soon. Just the wall part (as we can't use the Drone or Gun section) is like a souped up Aegis Defense Line - same cover save, but can move and can bounce back shots. Put some Warriors on there and they'll be even more annoying to kill than they already are. Only lacking the Comms Relay/Gun options compared to an ADL, but it''s an option.

Anything out of this release you are planning on utilizing? Will you be allying in some Tau? Or just learning ways to beat their new flavor of cheese?

In regards to Tau, I'm less interested in how they can help us and more interested in how they can hurt us.
What have they got now that will make for particular Necron bane? (either that can counter our good things easily or that we will find very hard to deal with).

 skoffs wrote:
In regards to Tau, I'm less interested in how they can help us and more interested in how they can hurt us.
What have they got now that will make for particular Necron bane? (either that can counter our good things easily or that we will find very hard to deal with).

If the riptide is still T6 2+ that will remain a massive problem. Deathmarks are viable but only really capable of taking one out if they are lucky, dealing with 2 or more will be hell unless you are spamming deathmarks.

The stormsurge won't likely be an issue as 3+ is a huge difference. Destroyers will have a field day. Against tesla shots AP - A riptide will take 30 wounds to down, The stormsurge will take 36.

So against AP4 + the gargantuan is 20% more survivable and costs double a basic riptide. Against AP3 which we have in spades, it is 70% less survivable than a riptide.

Requizen wrote:
So, Tau are in full steam now. Why is this a big deal to this thread? Well, they're one of our 3 (4 if you count Renegades) Allies of Convenience. And given that Orks don't bring a lot to us and the rest are CtA (which I personally am not a huge fan of), that means they're pretty worth considering.

Riptides can be taken in units of 3 now, if you feel like being that type of person. And they have a proper Gargantuan, though it becomes a bit of an issue fitting one into a Necron list if we really want it.

They have Formations as well, which is a nice alternative to an Allied Detachment if we want to add certain models to our force. Main ones worth looking at in my book are the new Optimized Stealth Cadre for tank hunting and generally good units, and the updated Fire Base Support Cadre, which no longer gives PE(Space Marines), but now gives Tank Hunter and Monster Hunter if everything shoots at the same unit, and no longer requires 3 man Broadside teams. 2 Broadsides to get a unit of 3 Riptides into a Necron army is a decent investment, though I guess you could get the same with an Allied Detachment (though lose the USRs).

Riptides aren't exactly necessary for Necrons to have, but they are a great fire magnet and have the ability to put out some pretty stupid amount of shooting if they get rolling with Nova Charges. I could perhaps see myself picking up one of those two formations to stick onto my Necrons on occasion.

The loveliest thing for us, I think, is the new Tidewall Rampart thingy that they got. As of yet, there is no distinction that it can only be taken by Tau, and it will be sold in sections very soon. Just the wall part (as we can't use the Drone or Gun section) is like a souped up Aegis Defense Line - same cover save, but can move and can bounce back shots. Put some Warriors on there and they'll be even more annoying to kill than they already are. Only lacking the Comms Relay/Gun options compared to an ADL, but it''s an option.

Anything out of this release you are planning on utilizing? Will you be allying in some Tau? Or just learning ways to beat their new flavor of cheese?

I miss 5th.

 vipoid wrote:

Requizen wrote:
So, Tau are in full steam now. Why is this a big deal to this thread? Well, they're one of our 3 (4 if you count Renegades) Allies of Convenience. And given that Orks don't bring a lot to us and the rest are CtA (which I personally am not a huge fan of), that means they're pretty worth considering.

Riptides can be taken in units of 3 now, if you feel like being that type of person. And they have a proper Gargantuan, though it becomes a bit of an issue fitting one into a Necron list if we really want it.

They have Formations as well, which is a nice alternative to an Allied Detachment if we want to add certain models to our force. Main ones worth looking at in my book are the new Optimized Stealth Cadre for tank hunting and generally good units, and the updated Fire Base Support Cadre, which no longer gives PE(Space Marines), but now gives Tank Hunter and Monster Hunter if everything shoots at the same unit, and no longer requires 3 man Broadside teams. 2 Broadsides to get a unit of 3 Riptides into a Necron army is a decent investment, though I guess you could get the same with an Allied Detachment (though lose the USRs).

Riptides aren't exactly necessary for Necrons to have, but they are a great fire magnet and have the ability to put out some pretty stupid amount of shooting if they get rolling with Nova Charges. I could perhaps see myself picking up one of those two formations to stick onto my Necrons on occasion.

The loveliest thing for us, I think, is the new Tidewall Rampart thingy that they got. As of yet, there is no distinction that it can only be taken by Tau, and it will be sold in sections very soon. Just the wall part (as we can't use the Drone or Gun section) is like a souped up Aegis Defense Line - same cover save, but can move and can bounce back shots. Put some Warriors on there and they'll be even more annoying to kill than they already are. Only lacking the Comms Relay/Gun options compared to an ADL, but it''s an option.

Anything out of this release you are planning on utilizing? Will you be allying in some Tau? Or just learning ways to beat their new flavor of cheese?

I miss 5th.

I mean, no one is forcing you to take Allies or Fortifications.

Requizen wrote:
I mean, no one is forcing you to take Allies or Fortifications.

Indeed. I just wish the game actually offered some reward for sticking with my own army - as opposed to jumping on the bandwagon and shoehorning in the most broken units from other armies.

I remember, quite recently, being belittled on the Dark Eldar forums for wanting to play (God forbid) Dark Eldar - as opposed to playing a "Dark Eldar" army that's about 90% Eldar.

Necrons are still capable of going at it alone.
A pure 'Cron list is plenty able to go toe-to-toe with your average competitive list that features allies. If said list is full of the most broken crap from several different codexes, then sure, it's going to be tough, but not impossible for us.

Has anyone tried 2-3 Doomsday Arks on a Skyshield Landing Pad? Doomsday Arks aren't necessarily that bad, 4HP on AV13 is fairly survivable, especially at a 72" range.

For that extra 75 points, you can give them a 4++ and a higher viewpoint to see downfield (nice to see over lower terrain). That basically means you never have to Jink (which you don't want to anyway) and increases the survivability of your big boomers.

Especially if you can screen it with mobs of Troops or a few Wraith units, keeping it safe while putting out small arms fire and/or tying up scary things. It seems like a nice way to round out a foot army that isn't using other shenanigans, or even paired with more Ghost Arks for that AV13 spam.

No need to screen it, honestly. A 4++ on a high platform is good enough. Otherwise, just use some Scarabs as a shield of sorts.

It's one of the cooler things to do with a CAD, but I feel I'm missing too much not using a Decurion.

What do you think about flayed ones? Are they any good in a decurion? Would you take 1 unit of 10 or 2 unit of 6(i have 12?)

Anyone played new Tau yet and can give us some insight?
Anything Necrons should do differently to other armies when facing them?