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Running a min squad of Tomb Blades in a Dec. I'm a new player and can't decide between the Gauss or the Tesla. My meta is primarily AM/IG (Infantry with Valks and maybe a Sentinel or two) and SM.

I would suggest gauss

 skoffs wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Requizen wrote:

At least, until GW decides to give us a big GC C'tan. Then I'll just be taking that and cackling maniacally the whole time.

At this point, I seriously doubt that happening.

Have faith!
Harbingers Of The Silent King
A Codex: Necrons Supplement
will come to save us all!
(with its balanced GC C'tan, and its five 6th ed. super Crypteks, and its ObSec Praetorians, and its new Lord Of War HQ who is actually formidable in combat, and, and, and...)

Spoiler:

they'll never do this, even though they should

Nope. However, I'm mainly waiting for Forgeworld to update Dark Harvest. Now that Flayed ones are awesome, I'd love to run the Dark Harvest with some Tomb Sentinels.


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Darth_Mox wrote:
Running a min squad of Tomb Blades in a Dec. I'm a new player and can't decide between the Gauss or the Tesla. My meta is primarily AM/IG (Infantry with Valks and maybe a Sentinel or two) and SM.

Gauss is probably the better bet. Tesla is rarely seen.

 bloodoffi wrote:
I would suggest gauss

Thanks. I am leaning more towards Gauss because of the Valks. Nebuloscope+Gauss sounds a lot more enticing if I need to try to get that last HP.


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Darth_Mox wrote:
Running a min squad of Tomb Blades in a Dec. I'm a new player and can't decide between the Gauss or the Tesla. My meta is primarily AM/IG (Infantry with Valks and maybe a Sentinel or two) and SM.

Gauss is probably the better bet. Tesla is rarely seen.

Darth_Mox wrote:

The only reason I was considering Tesla was because of the amount of *possible* hits since the guys I get matched against have swarms.

But Tesla has no AP, and if they're going to be playing swarms, you might as well invest in the Particle Beamers then. S6 AP5 small blasts that ignore cover.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Darth_Mox wrote:

The only reason I was considering Tesla was because of the amount of *possible* hits since the guys I get matched against have swarms.

But Tesla has no AP, and if they're going to be playing swarms, you might as well invest in the Particle Beamers then. S6 AP5 small blasts that ignore cover.

Even though it has no AP I thought Tesla with the multi-hits on 6's was more worth it than Particle Beam? The Nebuloscope causes the Tesla to ignore cover as well. Is it because the particle is guaranteed to hit multiple?

It depends what you're equipping the Tomb Blades for. I run three squads, and the one that merely captures objectives uses Tesla since they won't always be 12" away from the enemy, plus with Shadowlooms it makes sense, as AP- doesn't take advantage of Ignores Cover.

Darth_Mox wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Darth_Mox wrote:

The only reason I was considering Tesla was because of the amount of *possible* hits since the guys I get matched against have swarms.

But Tesla has no AP, and if they're going to be playing swarms, you might as well invest in the Particle Beamers then. S6 AP5 small blasts that ignore cover.

Even though it has no AP I thought Tesla with the multi-hits on 6's was more worth it than Particle Beam? The Nebuloscope causes the Tesla to ignore cover as well. Is it because the particle is guaranteed to hit multiple?

I agree for Slayer-Fan123. If you're using them for only capturing objectives, then Tesla and Shadowlooms are awesome. Otherwise, the others are better.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
It depends what you're equipping the Tomb Blades for. I run three squads, and the one that merely captures objectives uses Tesla since they won't always be 12" away from the enemy, plus with Shadowlooms it makes sense, as AP- doesn't take advantage of Ignores Cover.

Honestly I am taking them because I have to for a Decurion. I'm just trying to make sure they're useful. I know they're good for objectives, but my train of thought on Gauss was I'd have an easier time downing a flier's last HP, as well as the rapid fire on the swarms.

I should also note that the Tesla squad is at minimum size. Damage output isn't going to be great anyway with the Gauss Blasters without Ignores Cover too.


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The other Tomb Blades, depending on the list, are at 5-6 with Ignores Cover and Gauss Blasters.

The advantage of Tesla is when you are firing in the 12"-24" bracket. A twin-linked Tesla shot gets 1.33 hits on average, as opposed to a TL gauss shot, which gets 0.89 hits -- exactly 1.5 times as much, but 1.5 less what TL gauss gets in RF range. Almost... almost as if it were planned that way.

Darth_Mox wrote:
Honestly I am taking them because I have to for a Decurion. I'm just trying to make sure they're useful.

Oh, they're more than useful. They're actually one of the better units in the codex now.
(not particularly killy, just extremely useful in lots of situations, eg. objective grabbing, board control, harassment, finishing off wounded units, etc.)

 skoffs wrote:

Darth_Mox wrote:
Honestly I am taking them because I have to for a Decurion. I'm just trying to make sure they're useful.

Oh, they're more than useful. They're actually one of the better units in the codex now.
(not particularly killy, just extremely useful in lots of situations, eg. objective grabbing, board control, harassment, finishing off wounded units, etc.)

Some of the best points value units in the game i'd say.

Immortals are 17 points.
Tomb blades with 3+ armor are 20.

Right off the bat for 3 points more than an immortal you get

- 12" move + turbo, and moving over impassable.
- Jink
- +1 toughness
- Twin linked

With the option for ignores cover for 2 pts or +1 cover save for 1 pt
And the option to be kitted with small blasts for horde control.


I find mine a lot like Scatter bikes, the blasts tend to average 2 hits per blast, giving them on average less firepower, but more potential power.
Where scatterbikes have mobility, tomb blades have durability (+1 toughness and RP)
Although scatterbikes have better range, they still have to get through 2+ shrouded cover saves and the like.
Tomb blades are 3-7 points cheaper (11-25% cheaper)

Tomb blades are awesome.

Alcibiades wrote:
The advantage of Tesla is when you are firing in the 12"-24" bracket. A twin-linked Tesla shot gets 1.33 hits on average, as opposed to a TL gauss shot, which gets 0.89 hits -- exactly 1.5 times as much, but 1.5 less what TL gauss gets in RF range. Almost... almost as if it were planned that way.

You need to finish the equation and determine how many unsaved Wounds those hits cause before you can determine which is the better option.

Most everyone seems to find running a Reclamation Legion Decurion as the way to go (generally some mix of Canoptek Harvest, Destroyer Court, Judicator Battalion, and/or maxed out Tombed Blade variants) or running a CAD supplemented by Decurion formations. The global +1 RP of the Reclamation Legion Decurion and near global move through cover and relentless are proving to be really, really good. But it really hampers design space.

But what are the benefits of running a CAD or dual CAD as opposed to running any element of the Decurion (Reclamation Decurion or any Decurion formation)?

I am wondering what people are finding out to be the gems of running a CAD or dual CAD (with nothing Decurion at all)?

Some of the things that really catch my eye . . .



Some of the things that some might think are good but I am suspicious are not really that good . . .



So . . . lists pairing dual D Lords with wraith spam and heavy destroyer spam seem really solid. Maybe even Decurion level.

And Szeras and a multi-bubble of buffs approach looks like a viable design space to build a strong strong list.


Thoughts?

There's very few lists that benefit from being outside a Decurion:
1. Heavy Destroyer + Triarch Stalker spam
2. Doomsday Arks on a Sky Shield
3. Pure and simple Night Scythe fleet

Other than that, I cannot think of a specific list that wants to be in a CAD.

CAD and individual formations is the most flexible way to build a Necron list, and has the distinct advantage of being reasonable for pickup games.

Also makes it much easier to build an Orikanstar without taxes and allows for Obsec, if you want minmaxing uses for doing so.

Orikanstar benefits more from the Decurion; still having a 4+++ if Orikan is sniped and having MTC are huge advantages as a whole.

With individual formations it might be more "reasonable" but the Decurion helps justify Flayed Ones and Praetorians as legit threats.

ObSec is a great rule. Especially if you're playing against an opponent who has a lot of it, such as a Battle Company or Eldar Scatbike spam. It's one of those rules that you don't think about until you don't have it. And Warriors are great for it - cheap, durable, good guns against anything but MCs.

As much as I love 4+ RP, the static nature of most of the Formations makes it pretty hard to get the exact units you want without a hefty point sink somewhere else. Sure, everyone loves RP and Scarabs are good, but if you want a lot of Wraiths then you can't beat a CAD. Single ICs that aren't Overlords as well.

Not to say Decurions are bad. 4+ RP, MTC, Relentless - all great for Necrons. It depends on what you want and your battle plan. Which is actually good design, as it makes for a desicion rather than one always being strictly better.

If you're trying to beat a Battle Company at OS you won't win. Why bother even trying to contest?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
If you're trying to beat a Battle Company at OS you won't win. Why bother even trying to contest?

Because if the choices are "get some points with ObSec" and "get 0 points because you can't do diddly about objectives", occasionally the former is an ok choice. If nothing else, you can deny points by having hard to kill ObSec camping markers.

Requizen wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
If you're trying to beat a Battle Company at OS you won't win. Why bother even trying to contest?

Because if the choices are "get some points with ObSec" and "get 0 points because you can't do diddly about objectives", occasionally the former is an ok choice. If nothing else, you can deny points by having hard to kill ObSec camping markers.

Wouldn't the opponent already be doing that? (sitting on objectives all over the place with cheap hardy ObSec)
Fighting ObSec spam is one of Necrons biggest uphill battles.

 skoffs wrote:

Requizen wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
If you're trying to beat a Battle Company at OS you won't win. Why bother even trying to contest?

Because if the choices are "get some points with ObSec" and "get 0 points because you can't do diddly about objectives", occasionally the former is an ok choice. If nothing else, you can deny points by having hard to kill ObSec camping markers.

Wouldn't the opponent already be doing that? (sitting on objectives all over the place with cheap hardy ObSec)
Fighting ObSec spam is one of Necrons biggest uphill battles.

Which becomes near impossible when you have zero obsec yourself. At least with a CAD you can easily swamp out the half on your own table side with cheap durable units, then later on use Night Scythes to pinpoint drop immortals that are also obsec in their half. It isn't THAT hard for necrons to compete in that game. Key is how you place objectives depending on your opponents army.

Eh, the only time I had an issue with Obj Sec was when I was playing against my buds IG with a metric gak ton of Obj Sec units, and the game type was Contact Lost, in which you have to control objectives at the start of your turn to draw more.

That game still ended in a tie, so....

 krodarklorr wrote:
Eh, the only time I had an issue with Obj Sec was when I was playing against my buds IG with a metric gak ton of Obj Sec units, and the game type was Contact Lost, in which you have to control objectives at the start of your turn to draw more.

That game still ended in a tie, so....

If you play marines or eldar against a solid player you'll notice. It's mostly maelstrom BTW, eternal war its less of an issue. I have seen games get blown out by turn 2 due to obsec. Letting them grab a random objective here or there isn't the biggest issue, it is when they almost automatically score things like supremacy and ascendancy and leap ahead of you by several points in a turn. It hurts in contact lost like hell and it also gets pretty annoying in spoils of war when you lose cards to your opponent.

Necrons are super durable which is why having obsec on them is SUPER handy, Decurion is still great but I wouldn't suggest it is an auto take over a standard CAD is all I am saying.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
Eh, the only time I had an issue with Obj Sec was when I was playing against my buds IG with a metric gak ton of Obj Sec units, and the game type was Contact Lost, in which you have to control objectives at the start of your turn to draw more.

That game still ended in a tie, so....

If you play marines or eldar against a solid player you'll notice. It's mostly maelstrom BTW, eternal war its less of an issue. I have seen games get blown out by turn 2 due to obsec. Letting them grab a random objective here or there isn't the biggest issue, it is when they almost automatically score things like supremacy and ascendancy and leap ahead of you by several points in a turn. It hurts in contact lost like hell and it also gets pretty annoying in spoils of war when you lose cards to your opponent.

Necrons are super durable which is why having obsec on them is SUPER handy, Decurion is still great but I wouldn't suggest it is an auto take over a standard CAD is all I am saying.

That's the truth. When your opponent is 6-8 units of Scatbikes with ObSec and they can move 30" per turn and go from holding 0 objectives to 6 just like that, you begin to realize how much having ObSec matters.

At the very least, I'd like to have some for my own board edge objectives. That way, instead of just ignoring the Warriors/Immortals, they'll actually soak some fire away from my Destroyers/Wraiths/etc.

It's almost worth bringing a CAD attached to a Decurion for a bit of "best of both worlds". ObSec guys can camp objectives while Decurion Troops walk forward and are hardy, or if the opponent doesn't have the mobile ObSec, you can use the CAD Troops as fodder while your Decurion Troops hold objectives and don't die.

That was actually what I was going to suggest but it is dependent on larger games or else it can be even more restrictive. Personally I would rather run a CAD since I can easily get +1 RP from character support anyway and any formation I take already has move through cover on its own without the reclamation legion, so it's simply add a formation or 2 and profit.

The big thing that I like the Reclamation Legion for over CAD is Tomb Blades. Giving them 4+ RP and MTC is really hard in a CAD, but Decurion Tomb Blades are really, really fast and tough.

ION, for anyone who hasn't been paying attention to the latest releases, Tau just got a Formation that is just 3 units of Riptides with bonuses (+1 BS for shooting at a target another Riptide has shot, reroll Nova Reactor, and once-per-game each Riptide can shoot twice if it doesn't move). I have a feeling 3 Riptides with Ion (AP2) guns and various add-ons might be a pretty nice addition for Necrons, especially a

Not sure how to compare a IA Riptide to Heavy Destroyers though. For more than the cost of 3 (4 once you put on upgrades), it has a higher Toughness, but less Wounds. It does have that 2+ save, though, so that's good. And a baseline 5++ with the possibility for 3++ if you use your Nova Reactor on that instead of the gun. More susceptible to ID than the Destroyers, but stronger against small arms fire. Extra guns since it has the secondary weapon. Less chance to hit since BS3 before the Formation bonus and no PE, but the ability to have a Large Blast. Technically slightly better in Assault since it's tougher and has S6, though still not great at it. The IA (and HBC, at that) are longer range, which makes it a bit better against those pesky things that like to camp at the back of the board.

It's an interesting comparison, to say the least. I'm not really sure which is a better take.

I personally loathe the idea of fielding Tau with necrons lol. Fluff aside I don't think they add anything we can't already achieve either.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I personally loathe the idea of fielding Tau with necrons lol.

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks like that.