Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Nah, Scarabs from the Retribution Phalanx.
"Oh no, he killed them all! ... Oh well, send them right back in!"


(best if taking two Ret.Phal to get 2 Scarab units so you can alternate when 1 gets wiped, making sure the GC is always tied up)

Yes this would be something Id look into for ITC tourneys, but not in NOVA since a single Decurion detachment would take up all allowable formation slots.

Not that I know the detachments restrictions for either tourney format, but I thought the consensus had been that the CAD was the better take for competitive settings?
#sobehindonthemeta

Nah the +1 to reanimation is huge in the competitive setting.

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

Zimko wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:

 skoffs wrote:
Nah, Scarabs from the Retribution Phalanx.
"Oh no, he killed them all! ... Oh well, send them right back in!"


(best if taking two Ret.Phal to get 2 Scarab units so you can alternate when 1 gets wiped, making sure the GC is always tied up)

Yes this would be something Id look into for ITC tourneys, but not in NOVA since a single Decurion detachment would take up all allowable formation slots.

Are they allowing GCs back into the NOVA format? They were banned last year.

Yeah they are good for 2016... only one tho

The Stormsurge? or the Wraithknight?

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Nah the +1 to reanimation is huge in the competitive setting.

And ObSec isn't?

If you run a single Retribution Phalanx you can run Decurion. If you run two there is no point to the Decurion in an 1850 list.


I tested out a list where the unit of scarabs that had its unit size increased by Spyders would come back with the unit size it died with and not the starting size (since that's the RAW).

It wound up being surprisingly not OP at all. It's a rule interaction that seems OP in theory but winds up very self-limiting in actual practice. The more you invest in Spyders the more you have to invest in defending the OLord and insuring he can't get killed easily (which means you outright lose). You need the scarabs to regularly die in order to recoup your initial investment in mediocre units and boosting the size of the scarab unit reduces its ability to recycle. And a big scarab unit is only a killy threat to vehicles. It tarpits itself versus non-vehicle units - which would be okay if you didn't build your list around having to get a lot of value out of the unit. The strategy works best with a light amount of Spyders or no Spyders at all and the usual good stuff in your list (Wraiths, Destroyers, Tomb Blades). That way, the opponent doesn't have an easy way of shutting down your mono-focused list.

At any rate it doesn't perform better than my regular Scarab farm list.

col_impact wrote:
I tested out a list where the unit of scarabs that had its unit size increased by Spyders would come back with the unit size it died with and not the starting size (since that's the RAW).

Col... please don't

 skoffs wrote:

col_impact wrote:
I tested out a list where the unit of scarabs that had its unit size increased by Spyders would come back with the unit size it died with and not the starting size (since that's the RAW).

Col... please don't

Don't what? Test out lists?

 skoffs wrote:

 SonsofVulkan wrote:
Nah the +1 to reanimation is huge in the competitive setting.

And ObSec isn't?

Yeah it is but.... the Necrons codex has been out for awhile now and I still haven't seen a single top Necron list finish in any major GTs that is not Decurion.

So in a CAD you want to overwhelm the field with ObjSec warriors and immortals? So you going to foot slog them and expect to win competitively? Or you can spend extra pts on transports that you could of been using on Destroyers, Wraiths, and Lych guards. How you gonna compete against a Gladius strike force, that gets 400-500 free pts in transports and EVERYTHING ObjSec? You can say yeah sure I'll just run min troops and spam heavy hitters like Wraiths, Destroyers and etc. If thats the case whats the point of running a CAD with minimum troops when a Decurion can do that WAY better???

col_impact wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

col_impact wrote:
I tested out a list where the unit of scarabs that had its unit size increased by Spyders would come back with the unit size it died with and not the starting size (since that's the RAW).

Col... please don't

Don't what? Test out lists?

Don't passive agressively try to start an argument by stating something you know many others have a problem with that isn't 100% clear.

Oberron wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

col_impact wrote:
I tested out a list where the unit of scarabs that had its unit size increased by Spyders would come back with the unit size it died with and not the starting size (since that's the RAW).

Col... please don't

Don't what? Test out lists?

Don't passive agressively try to start an argument by stating something you know many others have a problem with that isn't 100% clear.

It was discussed on YMDC and resolved as the correct interpretation according to RAW. However, the RAW read is not very popular and lot of people are dismissing and wanting to impose house rule without testing.

There has been a lot of dismissing of clear RAW lately without testing going on. Tau Hunter Contingent, etc.

Personally, I don't jump to conclusions about a rule until I have at least tested it out. I guess that comes from my background in the sciences. Test before you jump to conclusions. Like I said, I tested out the rule and it is self-limiting and can't be abused beyond the power level of the Necron codex already.

In my play group we play by RAW and I am sure there are others reading this thread who are like me and play 40k by the rules.

col_impact wrote:

Oberron wrote:

col_impact wrote:

 skoffs wrote:

col_impact wrote:
I tested out a list where the unit of scarabs that had its unit size increased by Spyders would come back with the unit size it died with and not the starting size (since that's the RAW).

Col... please don't

Don't what? Test out lists?

Don't passive agressively try to start an argument by stating something you know many others have a problem with that isn't 100% clear.

It was discussed on YMDC and resolved as the correct interpretation according to RAW. However, the RAW read is not very popular and lot of people are dismissing and wanting to impose house rule without testing.

There has been a lot of dismissing of clear RAW lately without testing going on. Tau Hunter Contingent, etc.

Personally, I don't jump to conclusions about a rule until I have at least tested it out. I guess that comes from my background in the sciences. Test before you jump to conclusions. Like I said, I tested out the rule and it is self-limiting and can't be abused beyond the power level of the Necron codex already.

In my play group we play by RAW and I am sure there are others reading this thread who are like me and play 40k by the rules.

Drop it!

It was discussed on YMDC until you got the thread locked again. We don't want this one locked.
Drop it.

RULE #2 at DAKKA DAKKA is "Stay On Topic".

And of course, RULE #1 is "Be Polite".

*ahem*
Regarding Necron tournament tactics,
So these thing have restrictions how many detachments can be taken in a list, right?
What are those detachment restrictions for each format and how do they effect us? (Decurion is going to be severely impacted, I'm assuming)

 Alpharius wrote:
RULE #2 at DAKKA DAKKA is "Stay On Topic".

And of course, RULE #1 is "Be Polite".

And there should similarly be a rule saying "Don't spew bullcrap for the sake of being inflammatory and starting arguments". Which is demonstrably what he does nearly every time a new rule appears.

 skoffs wrote:
*ahem*
Regarding Necron tournament tactics,
So these thing have restrictions how many detachments can be taken in a list, right?
What are those detachment restrictions for each format and how do they effect us? (Decurion is going to be severely impacted, I'm assuming)

Generally speaking, most tournaments count a Decurion as one Detachment no matter how many Formations or Choices you take from it, sometimes saying you cannot duplicate Formations within it or only can duplicate them in a limited fashion. Some tournaments may rule it differently, but that's how ITC rules it, which is becoming a standard for lots of tournaments. If not the missions, at least the Army Construction and FAQ are being used around quite a bit.

With more armies getting Multiple Formation Detachments (MFDs, because Decruion-like Detachment is stupid), I think this will be somewhat of the standard going forward.

Ah, okay.
(forgive my ignorance on all things tournament. Never been much interested... until lately).

So lets say you are limited to a single Aux choice when building a Decurion, which one is the most viable choice? (knowing that the only things that can back it up are stuff from the Reclamation Legion)

 skoffs wrote:
Ah, okay.
(forgive my ignorance on all things tournament. Never been much interested... until lately).

So lets say you are limited to a single Aux choice when building a Decurion, which one is the most viable choice? (knowing that the only things that can back it up are stuff from the Reclamation Legion)

I've never seen a tournament say only one Aux choice, but if you had to, I'd say Destroyer Cult. Harvest is of course very strong, but you want to get the most out of that 4++ bonus, and you can always get more Wraiths in a side CAD.

I would also consider the Judicator Battalion in that situation. Bulk up the Stalker unit to support the Reclamation Legion, maybe units of 7 for the Praets. Decurion Praets + Tomb Blades is a very fast, durable list.

So what ARE the typical restrictions, then?
(I think I remember having seen something like, "only two detachments, total. No two of the same detachments. You can self ally for Allied Detachments", or something along those lines.
I remember there being something about Decurion, but can't recall what.
...
Though, if you can self ally in a Decurion that has no restrictions on Auxiliary choices, wouldn't that be a better option than adding a CAD?

I am in the process of building my first Decurion within the restrictions of my local format.

At this stage its a Decurion built using the legion and a Harvest.

Is it worth adding ghost arks to the warriors in the legion? What about the immortals? 5 to keep it cheap or do they need a night scythe and or 10 bodies?

What about the lord? Barge or foot and if foot - where does he go?

The necron book seems to have so many good choices...

 Massaen wrote:
I am in the process of building my first Decurion within the restrictions of my local format.

At this stage its a Decurion built using the legion and a Harvest.

Is it worth adding ghost arks to the warriors in the legion? What about the immortals? 5 to keep it cheap or do they need a night scythe and or 10 bodies?

What about the lord? Barge or foot and if foot - where does he go?

The necron book seems to have so many good choices...

Ghost arks are well worth it, makes your basic troops a mobile wall of gauss that can regenerate itself if any casualties are suffered. If you are going to run a scythe chuck in 10 immortals and drop them somewhere in the backline. They can be annoying enough distraction potentially until your heavy hitters arrive. In a non Decurion setting they are good as late game objective grabbers in a scythe. I have a barge lord but haven't run him yet, so can't really say much on that front. General consensus in 7E is that he is a massive fire magnet and doesn't survive long enough to be useful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Void shield generators (thinking the full 3). Are they worth it to keep non Decurion crons alive until they are well up the board? From what I've heard they can be staggered up the field, enabling a good save right until you get to the rapid fire sweet spot? I'm thinking of a 6x Heavy Destroyer & a stalker list, seems worth it imo.

are there any things used for general proxies?

Klowny wrote:

 Massaen wrote:
I am in the process of building my first Decurion within the restrictions of my local format.

At this stage its a Decurion built using the legion and a Harvest.

Is it worth adding ghost arks to the warriors in the legion? What about the immortals? 5 to keep it cheap or do they need a night scythe and or 10 bodies?

What about the lord? Barge or foot and if foot - where does he go?

The necron book seems to have so many good choices...

Ghost arks are well worth it, makes your basic troops a mobile wall of gauss that can regenerate itself if any casualties are suffered. If you are going to run a scythe chuck in 10 immortals and drop them somewhere in the backline. They can be annoying enough distraction potentially until your heavy hitters arrive. In a non Decurion setting they are good as late game objective grabbers in a scythe. I have a barge lord but haven't run him yet, so can't really say much on that front. General consensus in 7E is that he is a massive fire magnet and doesn't survive long enough to be useful.

Agreed with the above post. Ghost Arks are nice, though might easily give first blood depending on who you're fighting. I usually run 10 Immortals, sometimes in a Night Scythe, and they always do well.

The Overlord on a Barge is both a huge target and going to be ignored, depending on your opponent. If you're fighting Scatterbike spam, the Overlord is invaluable, as all of that S6 can't hurt him.

And yes, the Necron book has a lot of great choices. There are only really 2 bad units in the whole codex, one of which isn't bad, just sub-par.

Ghost Arks are VERY unlikely to give up first blood. That statement was incredibly incorrect. They're effectively A13, 4HP, and can Jink.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Ghost Arks are VERY unlikely to give up first blood. That statement was incredibly incorrect. They're effectively A13, 4HP, and can Jink.

Open topped hurts them a lot, seems 90% of the time my get hit by Anti tank weapons, they explode instantly.
They're great vs small arms, but a melta has a 50% chance to explode them.

Like he said, depends on the list

Open-Topped is more a benefit than a curse; your Warriors can all shoot and charge.
I also don't think your math is correct.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Ghost Arks are VERY unlikely to give up first blood. That statement was incredibly incorrect. They're effectively A13, 4HP, and can Jink.

Umm, I'm sorry. If we're talking even a semi-competitive meta, Ghost Arks are going to be targeted by things like Dark Reapers (can't jink), Wraithknights with D-weapons, Stormsurges/Riptides, Drop pod melta/grav, ext. Ghost Arks will very easily give up first blood as opposed to foot slogging troops. Any pen they take, they're essentially dead.

I feel like no vehicles are currently viable save for Flyers, and even then in a limited sense of 2 max. Possibly one could make an argument for an Obelisk if one was so inclined.

Foot soldiers are the way to go. In fact, cheap foot soldiers in MSU work the best in my book, just flood out more than they can kill thanks to RP. I'm actually coming around to Praetorians being viable alongside or even in lieu of Wraiths just because it's more units to split fire and overwhelm the board. As none of our Deathstars are currently working save for Wraiths + DLord, I would say MSU is the way to go, whether it's a Decurion or not.

Why not Praets + D.Lord?
They would love to have PE with VB&PC so they can reroll 1s into potential rends.

And if you're taking 2 Night Scythes, what better than Judicator Battalion Night Scythes to give them free rerolls to wound/pen?

Requizen wrote:
I feel like no vehicles are currently viable save for Flyers, and even then in a limited sense of 2 max. Possibly one could make an argument for an Obelisk if one was so inclined.

Foot soldiers are the way to go. In fact, cheap foot soldiers in MSU work the best in my book, just flood out more than they can kill thanks to RP. I'm actually coming around to Praetorians being viable alongside or even in lieu of Wraiths just because it's more units to split fire and overwhelm the board. As none of our Deathstars are currently working save for Wraiths + DLord, I would say MSU is the way to go, whether it's a Decurion or not.

What about the lychguard star?

 Massaen wrote:

Requizen wrote:
none of our Deathstars are currently working save for Wraiths + DLord

What about the lychguard star?

This might be his reasoning.
(it may be tough to kill, but it's hardly killy itself, and is the opposite of fast... that's only one out of three requirements for what most people would consider a good working deathstar)

The lychstar is insanely killy every time I see it and mobility is a non issue thanks to night scythes and or obyron/veil.

Its hardly slow - its the same speed as every other infantry unit - it will catch things that try to run away!

Maybe if you're hunting TAC squads, okay, but compared to the "good" (see: competitive) deathstars out there, it's significantly slower/less killy.