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Didn't even think of that, but 45 degrees is abysmal, especially when combined with a 22.5 horizontal arc. Of course given the physical weapons on the obelisk one wonders where one traces that arc from.
If it's from the little plate things on the balls (about 8 or so inches off of the ground) then it can only fire at units 9 inches away from it, because trigonometry is a bitch like that. Given that is has a 24 inch range, that seems more than a tad silly. However we better get that question in before the Necron FAQ, Because if they have 360 arcs then it becomes a serious presence on the board.
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
Grimgold wrote: So got a great deal on a Obelisk, and realized I've never seen one played, I couldn't even find a bat rep with one. On paper it seems decent, suitable for a softer list than my usual cult and harvest setup. It's able to put out an average of 15 to 20 S7 AP - hits a round (could be a lot more if your dice are hot), with a small chance of dropping nearby flyers, skimmers, and the like. Seems tailor made to deal with SM transport spam, and it's the only non-forge world option we have for dealing with flyers.
My question is, has anyone actually used it in a game, if so how was it?
The problem is its guns are on fixed arcs since they can't move so you have a hard time actually firing all 4 guns at once because that all have to be a separate targets in 4 separate arcs.
Spoiler:
In before Col_Impact argues ad nasium that it has 360 LoS because its called a Sphere even that has nothing to do with the rules
No FAQ needed on this issue. Just people need to not be rules lawyers.
I just shoot the thing that is obviously the Tesla Sphere. It's free to rotate around it's mountings per the rules. This allows the Obelisk to shoot 3 of its Tesla Spheres at a single target.
Spoiler:
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight
When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight
from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel to see if the shot is blocked by
intervening terrain or models.
If the target unit is in cover from only some of the vehicle’s weapons, then work out the
target’s cover saves exactly as if each firing weapon on the vehicle was a separate firing
unit. Note that, even when firing Barrage weapons, the target unit must be in the
weapon’s arc of sight.
On some models, it will actually be impossible to move the gun and point it towards the
target because of the way the model is assembled. In this case, players should assume
that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings. In the rare cases
when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 º , even if the barrel on the
model itself cannot physically do that! Additionally, assume all hull-mounted weapons
can swivel horizontally up to 45 º .
Remember, you shoot an autocannon on a Predator, not an auto-turret. The weapon on the Obelisk is a sphere. And that sphere rotates around its encasing, per the rules.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2016/06/17 07:29:47
Yup. You called it that I would call you out on your BS and failure to treat the Tesla Sphere as a sphere. And you called it that I would have ample rules backing supporting my position. So good job calling that.
If you feel otherwise, feel free to point to the part of the Obelisk that represents the Tesla Sphere if it's not the spheres that are encased on its side. Waiting . . .
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/06/17 07:34:16
Grimgold wrote: So got a great deal on a Obelisk, and realized I've never seen one played, I couldn't even find a bat rep with one. On paper it seems decent, suitable for a softer list than my usual cult and harvest setup. It's able to put out an average of 15 to 20 S7 AP - hits a round (could be a lot more if your dice are hot), with a small chance of dropping nearby flyers, skimmers, and the like. Seems tailor made to deal with SM transport spam, and it's the only non-forge world option we have for dealing with flyers.
My question is, has anyone actually used it in a game, if so how was it?
The problem is its guns are on fixed arcs since they can't move so you have a hard time actually firing all 4 guns at once because that all have to be a separate targets in 4 separate arcs.
Spoiler:
In before Col_Impact argues ad nasium that it has 360 LoS because its called a Sphere even that has nothing to do with the rules
No FAQ needed on this issue. Just people need to not be rules lawyers.
I just shoot the thing that is obviously the Tesla Sphere. It's free to rotate around it's encasing per the rules. This allows the Obelisk to shoot 3 of its Tesla Spheres at a single target.
Spoiler:
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight
When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight
from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel to see if the shot is blocked by
intervening terrain or models.
If the target unit is in cover from only some of the vehicle’s weapons, then work out the
target’s cover saves exactly as if each firing weapon on the vehicle was a separate firing
unit. Note that, even when firing Barrage weapons, the target unit must be in the
weapon’s arc of sight.
On some models, it will actually be impossible to move the gun and point it towards the
target because of the way the model is assembled. In this case, players should assume
that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings. In the rare cases
when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 º , even if the barrel on the
model itself cannot physically do that! Additionally, assume all hull-mounted weapons
can swivel horizontally up to 45 º .
Remember, you shoot an autocannon on a Predator, not an auto-turret. The weapon on the Obelisk is a sphere. And that sphere rotates around its encasing, per the rules.
Assembling the model as shown in its instructions is doesn't let the sphere move or pivot. It is a fixed placement. Nor is it an entire sphere and it does not rotate at all on the model.
It's easy to assume that people arguing an interpretation you disagree with are just looking for an advantage for themselves... But it's quite often not the case.
Grimgold wrote: So got a great deal on a Obelisk, and realized I've never seen one played, I couldn't even find a bat rep with one. On paper it seems decent, suitable for a softer list than my usual cult and harvest setup. It's able to put out an average of 15 to 20 S7 AP - hits a round (could be a lot more if your dice are hot), with a small chance of dropping nearby flyers, skimmers, and the like. Seems tailor made to deal with SM transport spam, and it's the only non-forge world option we have for dealing with flyers.
My question is, has anyone actually used it in a game, if so how was it?
The problem is its guns are on fixed arcs since they can't move so you have a hard time actually firing all 4 guns at once because that all have to be a separate targets in 4 separate arcs.
Spoiler:
In before Col_Impact argues ad nasium that it has 360 LoS because its called a Sphere even that has nothing to do with the rules
No FAQ needed on this issue. Just people need to not be rules lawyers.
I just shoot the thing that is obviously the Tesla Sphere. It's free to rotate around it's encasing per the rules. This allows the Obelisk to shoot 3 of its Tesla Spheres at a single target.
Spoiler:
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight
When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight
from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel to see if the shot is blocked by
intervening terrain or models.
If the target unit is in cover from only some of the vehicle’s weapons, then work out the
target’s cover saves exactly as if each firing weapon on the vehicle was a separate firing
unit. Note that, even when firing Barrage weapons, the target unit must be in the
weapon’s arc of sight.
On some models, it will actually be impossible to move the gun and point it towards the
target because of the way the model is assembled. In this case, players should assume
that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings. In the rare cases
when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 º , even if the barrel on the
model itself cannot physically do that! Additionally, assume all hull-mounted weapons
can swivel horizontally up to 45 º .
Remember, you shoot an autocannon on a Predator, not an auto-turret. The weapon on the Obelisk is a sphere. And that sphere rotates around its encasing, per the rules.
Assembling the model as shown in its instructions is doesn't let the sphere move or pivot. It is a fixed placement. Nor is it an entire sphere and it does not rotate at all on the model.
Yup and as I pointed out the rules allow you to imagine rotating around even if you physically cannot based on its assembly. Them's the rules.
You are reading the rules I am posting, correct?
Simply read the rules I posted. It's pretty darn clear.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/17 07:43:06
Grimgold wrote: So got a great deal on a Obelisk, and realized I've never seen one played, I couldn't even find a bat rep with one. On paper it seems decent, suitable for a softer list than my usual cult and harvest setup. It's able to put out an average of 15 to 20 S7 AP - hits a round (could be a lot more if your dice are hot), with a small chance of dropping nearby flyers, skimmers, and the like. Seems tailor made to deal with SM transport spam, and it's the only non-forge world option we have for dealing with flyers.
My question is, has anyone actually used it in a game, if so how was it?
The problem is its guns are on fixed arcs since they can't move so you have a hard time actually firing all 4 guns at once because that all have to be a separate targets in 4 separate arcs.
Spoiler:
In before Col_Impact argues ad nasium that it has 360 LoS because its called a Sphere even that has nothing to do with the rules
No FAQ needed on this issue. Just people need to not be rules lawyers.
I just shoot the thing that is obviously the Tesla Sphere. It's free to rotate around it's encasing per the rules. This allows the Obelisk to shoot 3 of its Tesla Spheres at a single target.
Spoiler:
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight
When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight
from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel to see if the shot is blocked by
intervening terrain or models.
If the target unit is in cover from only some of the vehicle’s weapons, then work out the
target’s cover saves exactly as if each firing weapon on the vehicle was a separate firing
unit. Note that, even when firing Barrage weapons, the target unit must be in the
weapon’s arc of sight.
On some models, it will actually be impossible to move the gun and point it towards the
target because of the way the model is assembled. In this case, players should assume
that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings. In the rare cases
when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 º , even if the barrel on the
model itself cannot physically do that! Additionally, assume all hull-mounted weapons
can swivel horizontally up to 45 º .
Remember, you shoot an autocannon on a Predator, not an auto-turret. The weapon on the Obelisk is a sphere. And that sphere rotates around its encasing, per the rules.
Assembling the model as shown in its instructions is doesn't let the sphere move or pivot. It is a fixed placement. Nor is it an entire sphere and it does not rotate at all on the model.
Yup and as I pointed out the rules allow you to imagine rotating around even if you physically cannot based on its assembly. Them's the rules.
Grimgold wrote: So got a great deal on a Obelisk, and realized I've never seen one played, I couldn't even find a bat rep with one. On paper it seems decent, suitable for a softer list than my usual cult and harvest setup. It's able to put out an average of 15 to 20 S7 AP - hits a round (could be a lot more if your dice are hot), with a small chance of dropping nearby flyers, skimmers, and the like. Seems tailor made to deal with SM transport spam, and it's the only non-forge world option we have for dealing with flyers.
My question is, has anyone actually used it in a game, if so how was it?
The problem is its guns are on fixed arcs since they can't move so you have a hard time actually firing all 4 guns at once because that all have to be a separate targets in 4 separate arcs.
Spoiler:
In before Col_Impact argues ad nasium that it has 360 LoS because its called a Sphere even that has nothing to do with the rules
No FAQ needed on this issue. Just people need to not be rules lawyers.
I just shoot the thing that is obviously the Tesla Sphere. It's free to rotate around it's encasing per the rules. This allows the Obelisk to shoot 3 of its Tesla Spheres at a single target.
Spoiler:
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight
When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight
from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel to see if the shot is blocked by
intervening terrain or models.
If the target unit is in cover from only some of the vehicle’s weapons, then work out the
target’s cover saves exactly as if each firing weapon on the vehicle was a separate firing
unit. Note that, even when firing Barrage weapons, the target unit must be in the
weapon’s arc of sight.
On some models, it will actually be impossible to move the gun and point it towards the
target because of the way the model is assembled. In this case, players should assume
that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings. In the rare cases
when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 º , even if the barrel on the
model itself cannot physically do that! Additionally, assume all hull-mounted weapons
can swivel horizontally up to 45 º .
Remember, you shoot an autocannon on a Predator, not an auto-turret. The weapon on the Obelisk is a sphere. And that sphere rotates around its encasing, per the rules.
Assembling the model as shown in its instructions is doesn't let the sphere move or pivot. It is a fixed placement. Nor is it an entire sphere and it does not rotate at all on the model.
Yup and as I pointed out the rules allow you to imagine rotating around even if you physically cannot based on its assembly. Them's the rules.
You are reading the rules I am posting, correct?
Simply read the rules I posted. It's pretty darn clear.
players should assume that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings
Where is the barrel of the tesla sphere and what is it mounted to? A vertical rail. By the rules it can only go up can down not left and right. Its pretty darn clear.
It's easy to assume that people arguing an interpretation you disagree with are just looking for an advantage for themselves... But it's quite often not the case.
Grimgold wrote: So got a great deal on a Obelisk, and realized I've never seen one played, I couldn't even find a bat rep with one. On paper it seems decent, suitable for a softer list than my usual cult and harvest setup. It's able to put out an average of 15 to 20 S7 AP - hits a round (could be a lot more if your dice are hot), with a small chance of dropping nearby flyers, skimmers, and the like. Seems tailor made to deal with SM transport spam, and it's the only non-forge world option we have for dealing with flyers.
My question is, has anyone actually used it in a game, if so how was it?
The problem is its guns are on fixed arcs since they can't move so you have a hard time actually firing all 4 guns at once because that all have to be a separate targets in 4 separate arcs.
Spoiler:
In before Col_Impact argues ad nasium that it has 360 LoS because its called a Sphere even that has nothing to do with the rules
No FAQ needed on this issue. Just people need to not be rules lawyers.
I just shoot the thing that is obviously the Tesla Sphere. It's free to rotate around it's encasing per the rules. This allows the Obelisk to shoot 3 of its Tesla Spheres at a single target.
Spoiler:
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight
When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight
from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel to see if the shot is blocked by
intervening terrain or models.
If the target unit is in cover from only some of the vehicle’s weapons, then work out the
target’s cover saves exactly as if each firing weapon on the vehicle was a separate firing
unit. Note that, even when firing Barrage weapons, the target unit must be in the
weapon’s arc of sight.
On some models, it will actually be impossible to move the gun and point it towards the
target because of the way the model is assembled. In this case, players should assume
that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings. In the rare cases
when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 º , even if the barrel on the
model itself cannot physically do that! Additionally, assume all hull-mounted weapons
can swivel horizontally up to 45 º .
Remember, you shoot an autocannon on a Predator, not an auto-turret. The weapon on the Obelisk is a sphere. And that sphere rotates around its encasing, per the rules.
Assembling the model as shown in its instructions is doesn't let the sphere move or pivot. It is a fixed placement. Nor is it an entire sphere and it does not rotate at all on the model.
Yup and as I pointed out the rules allow you to imagine rotating around even if you physically cannot based on its assembly. Them's the rules.
So all guns on all vehicles have 360 LoS then?
Nope. Only the ones that are spheres or turrets. In the case of both turrets and spheres the rules writers expect us to imagine how they rotate (based on how people with 6th grade education understand turrets and spheres to rotate). Turret isn't defined fully in the rules either. Sphere and turret are in the same boat.
The good news is that it's actually super easy to imagine how turret and sheres rotate, unless you are being a rules lawyer and intentionally defeating the obvious and the honest.
Still waiting for you to point to the part of the Obelisk that is the Tesla Sphere,
Your failure to actually point to something on the model underscores the fact that you are being a rules lawyer and dodging the truth.
I will boldly and honestly point to the objects that look like spheres on the Obelisk as the Tesla Spheres.
players should assume that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings
Where is the barrel of the tesla sphere and what is it mounted to? A vertical rail. By the rules it can only go up can down not left and right. Its pretty darn clear.
First, kindly point to the actual Tesla Sphere.
I am pointing to the spheres you see on the Obelisk. What are you pointing to?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/06/17 07:54:03
Grimgold wrote: So got a great deal on a Obelisk, and realized I've never seen one played, I couldn't even find a bat rep with one. On paper it seems decent, suitable for a softer list than my usual cult and harvest setup. It's able to put out an average of 15 to 20 S7 AP - hits a round (could be a lot more if your dice are hot), with a small chance of dropping nearby flyers, skimmers, and the like. Seems tailor made to deal with SM transport spam, and it's the only non-forge world option we have for dealing with flyers.
My question is, has anyone actually used it in a game, if so how was it?
The problem is its guns are on fixed arcs since they can't move so you have a hard time actually firing all 4 guns at once because that all have to be a separate targets in 4 separate arcs.
[spoiler]In before Col_Impact argues ad nasium that it has 360 LoS because its called a Sphere even that has nothing to do with the rules
No FAQ needed on this issue. Just people need to not be rules lawyers.
I just shoot the thing that is obviously the Tesla Sphere. It's free to rotate around it's encasing per the rules. This allows the Obelisk to shoot 3 of its Tesla Spheres at a single target.
Spoiler:
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight
When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight
from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel to see if the shot is blocked by
intervening terrain or models.
If the target unit is in cover from only some of the vehicle’s weapons, then work out the
target’s cover saves exactly as if each firing weapon on the vehicle was a separate firing
unit. Note that, even when firing Barrage weapons, the target unit must be in the
weapon’s arc of sight.
On some models, it will actually be impossible to move the gun and point it towards the
target because of the way the model is assembled. In this case, players should assume
that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings. In the rare cases
when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 º , even if the barrel on the
model itself cannot physically do that! Additionally, assume all hull-mounted weapons
can swivel horizontally up to 45 º .
Remember, you shoot an autocannon on a Predator, not an auto-turret. The weapon on the Obelisk is a sphere. And that sphere rotates around its encasing, per the rules.
Assembling the model as shown in its instructions is doesn't let the sphere move or pivot. It is a fixed placement. Nor is it an entire sphere and it does not rotate at all on the model.
Yup and as I pointed out the rules allow you to imagine rotating around even if you physically cannot based on its assembly. Them's the rules.
So all guns on all vehicles have 360 LoS then?
Nope. Only the ones that are spheres or turrets. In the case of both turrets and spheres the rules writers expect us to imagine how they rotate. Turret isn't defined fully in the rules either. Sphere and turret are in the same boat.
The good news is that it's actually super easy to imagine how turret and sheres rotate, unless you are being a rules lawyer and intentionally defeating the obvious and the honest.
Still waiting for you to point to the part of the Obelisk that is the Tesla Sphere,
Your failure to actually point to something on the model underscores the fact that you are being a rules lawyer and dodging the truth.
I will boldly and honestly point to the objects that look like spheres on the Obelisk as the Tesla Spheres.
[/spoiler]
Can we get a rules source that it only works on turrets and "spheres" and can you show us what the rules for sphere mounted weapons are, and what allows you to group turret and spheres together? page and paragraph please or else you have no case.
I am pointing to the spheres you see on the Obelisk. What are you pointing to?
The barrel on the end is the tesla sphere and what shooting with it is measured from. It is clearly mounted on a verticle rail that does not pivot or physically move. But it looks like the barrel is on a track that can move up and down that is the only thing that can be assumed since the sphere is not a full sphere.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/06/17 07:56:57
It's easy to assume that people arguing an interpretation you disagree with are just looking for an advantage for themselves... But it's quite often not the case.
Grimgold wrote: So got a great deal on a Obelisk, and realized I've never seen one played, I couldn't even find a bat rep with one. On paper it seems decent, suitable for a softer list than my usual cult and harvest setup. It's able to put out an average of 15 to 20 S7 AP - hits a round (could be a lot more if your dice are hot), with a small chance of dropping nearby flyers, skimmers, and the like. Seems tailor made to deal with SM transport spam, and it's the only non-forge world option we have for dealing with flyers.
My question is, has anyone actually used it in a game, if so how was it?
The problem is its guns are on fixed arcs since they can't move so you have a hard time actually firing all 4 guns at once because that all have to be a separate targets in 4 separate arcs.
Spoiler:
In before Col_Impact argues ad nasium that it has 360 LoS because its called a Sphere even that has nothing to do with the rules
No FAQ needed on this issue. Just people need to not be rules lawyers.
I just shoot the thing that is obviously the Tesla Sphere. It's free to rotate around it's encasing per the rules. This allows the Obelisk to shoot 3 of its Tesla Spheres at a single target.
Spoiler:
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight
When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight
from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel to see if the shot is blocked by
intervening terrain or models.
If the target unit is in cover from only some of the vehicle’s weapons, then work out the
target’s cover saves exactly as if each firing weapon on the vehicle was a separate firing
unit. Note that, even when firing Barrage weapons, the target unit must be in the
weapon’s arc of sight.
On some models, it will actually be impossible to move the gun and point it towards the
target because of the way the model is assembled. In this case, players should assume
that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings. In the rare cases
when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 º , even if the barrel on the
model itself cannot physically do that! Additionally, assume all hull-mounted weapons
can swivel horizontally up to 45 º .
Remember, you shoot an autocannon on a Predator, not an auto-turret. The weapon on the Obelisk is a sphere. And that sphere rotates around its encasing, per the rules.
Assembling the model as shown in its instructions is doesn't let the sphere move or pivot. It is a fixed placement. Nor is it an entire sphere and it does not rotate at all on the model.
Yup and as I pointed out the rules allow you to imagine rotating around even if you physically cannot based on its assembly. Them's the rules.
So all guns on all vehicles have 360 LoS then?
Nope. Only the ones that are spheres or turrets. In the case of both turrets and spheres the rules writers expect us to imagine how they rotate. Turret isn't defined fully in the rules either. Sphere and turret are in the same boat.
The good news is that it's actually super easy to imagine how turret and sheres rotate, unless you are being a rules lawyer and intentionally defeating the obvious and the honest.
Still waiting for you to point to the part of the Obelisk that is the Tesla Sphere,
Your failure to actually point to something on the model underscores the fact that you are being a rules lawyer and dodging the truth.
I will boldly and honestly point to the objects that look like spheres on the Obelisk as the Tesla Spheres.
Where in the rulebook do spheres get 360 LoS like turrets?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/17 07:53:18
Where in the rulebook do spheres get 360 LoS like turrets?
I have pointed to the exact rulebook justification. I have nothing to hide. In this case the Obelisk gets the range of motion as imagined by an encased track ball as represented by the modeling of the Obelisk and this is justified 100% by the rules. Not exactly 360 degrees, but enough that 3 Tesla Spheres could be brought to bear against a single target.
Spoiler:
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight
When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight
from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel to see if the shot is blocked by
intervening terrain or models.
If the target unit is in cover from only some of the vehicle’s weapons, then work out the
target’s cover saves exactly as if each firing weapon on the vehicle was a separate firing
unit. Note that, even when firing Barrage weapons, the target unit must be in the
weapon’s arc of sight.
On some models, it will actually be impossible to move the gun and point it towards the
target because of the way the model is assembled. In this case, players should assume
that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings. In the rare cases
when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 º , even if the barrel on the
model itself cannot physically do that! Additionally, assume all hull-mounted weapons
can swivel horizontally up to 45 º .
Still waiting for you to point to the part of the Obelisk that represents the Tesla Sphere. I am proud to say that I am pointing to spheres.
I am also still waiting for you to point to any actual rules. So far in this discussion I am the only one who is proud to actually be pointing to RULES.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/06/17 08:02:11
Where in the rulebook do spheres get 360 LoS like turrets?
I have pointed to the exact rulebook justification. I have nothing to hide.
Spoiler:
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight
When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight
from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel to see if the shot is blocked by
intervening terrain or models.
If the target unit is in cover from only some of the vehicle’s weapons, then work out the
target’s cover saves exactly as if each firing weapon on the vehicle was a separate firing
unit. Note that, even when firing Barrage weapons, the target unit must be in the
weapon’s arc of sight.
On some models, it will actually be impossible to move the gun and point it towards the
target because of the way the model is assembled. In this case, players should assume
that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings. In the rare cases
when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 º , even if the barrel on the
model itself cannot physically do that! Additionally, assume all hull-mounted weapons
can swivel horizontally up to 45 º .
Literally says nothing about spheres. You claimed that it has 360 LoS because its a sphere and you can't show a rule supporting this.
Where in the rulebook do spheres get 360 LoS like turrets?
I have pointed to the exact rulebook justification. I have nothing to hide.
Spoiler:
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight
When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight
from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel to see if the shot is blocked by
intervening terrain or models.
If the target unit is in cover from only some of the vehicle’s weapons, then work out the
target’s cover saves exactly as if each firing weapon on the vehicle was a separate firing
unit. Note that, even when firing Barrage weapons, the target unit must be in the
weapon’s arc of sight.
On some models, it will actually be impossible to move the gun and point it towards the
target because of the way the model is assembled. In this case, players should assume
that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings. In the rare cases
when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 º , even if the barrel on the
model itself cannot physically do that! Additionally, assume all hull-mounted weapons
can swivel horizontally up to 45 º .
Literally says nothing about spheres. You claimed that it has 360 LoS because its a sphere and you can't show a rule supporting this.
The rule says that the Tesla Sphere is free to rotate around its mountings. I have not claimed 360 degree rotation, only the rotation supported by the rules (which is determined by imagining the Tesla Sphere rotating around its encasing, per the rules)
I am pointing to the spheres on the Obelisk and I am rotating the spheres on their mountings.
This allows me to bring 3 Tesla Spheres to bear on any single target.
Them's the rules.
I think at this point you should start quoting rules or concede that you have no argument of merit. Per the rules, I can rotate 3 Tesla Spheres on any single target within 24" of the Obelisk. I have shown clear rules justification. You have yet to actually adress the rules.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/06/17 08:10:37
Where in the rulebook do spheres get 360 LoS like turrets?
I have pointed to the exact rulebook justification. I have nothing to hide.
Spoiler:
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight
When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight
from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel to see if the shot is blocked by
intervening terrain or models.
If the target unit is in cover from only some of the vehicle’s weapons, then work out the
target’s cover saves exactly as if each firing weapon on the vehicle was a separate firing
unit. Note that, even when firing Barrage weapons, the target unit must be in the
weapon’s arc of sight.
On some models, it will actually be impossible to move the gun and point it towards the
target because of the way the model is assembled. In this case, players should assume
that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings. In the rare cases
when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 º , even if the barrel on the
model itself cannot physically do that! Additionally, assume all hull-mounted weapons
can swivel horizontally up to 45 º .
Literally says nothing about spheres. You claimed that it has 360 LoS because its a sphere and you can't show a rule supporting this.
The rule says that the Tesla Sphere is free to rotate around its mountings.
I am pointing to the spheres on the Obelisk and I am rotating the spheres on their mountings.
This allows me to bring 3 Tesla Spheres to bear on any single target.
Them's the rules.
I think at this point you should start quoting rules or concede that you have no argument of merit.
My argument is your lack of adequate rules to quote to support your position. You claim its 360 because its a sphere (which is what you responded with when i asked why your quoted passage doesn't make all guns on all vehicles 360 LoS). I'm asking you to quote your rule supporting that claim.
My argument is your lack of adequate rules to quote to support your position. You claim its 360 because its a sphere (which is what you responded with when i asked why your quoted passage doesn't make all guns on all vehicles 360 LoS). I'm asking you to quote your rule supporting that claim.
I have never claimed 360 rotation.
360 rotation is not required.
I will just rotate per the rules.
Spoiler:
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight
When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight
from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel to see if the shot is blocked by
intervening terrain or models.
If the target unit is in cover from only some of the vehicle’s weapons, then work out the
target’s cover saves exactly as if each firing weapon on the vehicle was a separate firing
unit. Note that, even when firing Barrage weapons, the target unit must be in the
weapon’s arc of sight.
On some models, it will actually be impossible to move the gun and point it towards the
target because of the way the model is assembled. In this case, players should assume
that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings. In the rare cases
when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 º , even if the barrel on the
model itself cannot physically do that! Additionally, assume all hull-mounted weapons
can swivel horizontally up to 45 º .
Or have you not clued in yet that I am obeying the rules.
Yup. I got rules on my side.
Start pointing to actual rules bud. You aren't fooling anybody with your shenanigans.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/17 08:14:51
My argument is your lack of adequate rules to quote to support your position. You claim its 360 because its a sphere (which is what you responded with when i asked why your quoted passage doesn't make all guns on all vehicles 360 LoS). I'm asking you to quote your rule supporting that claim.
I have never claimed 360 rotation.
360 rotation is not required.
I will just rotate per the rules.
Spoiler:
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight
When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight
from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel to see if the shot is blocked by
intervening terrain or models.
If the target unit is in cover from only some of the vehicle’s weapons, then work out the
target’s cover saves exactly as if each firing weapon on the vehicle was a separate firing
unit. Note that, even when firing Barrage weapons, the target unit must be in the
weapon’s arc of sight.
On some models, it will actually be impossible to move the gun and point it towards the
target because of the way the model is assembled. In this case, players should assume
that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings. In the rare cases
when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 º , even if the barrel on the
model itself cannot physically do that! Additionally, assume all hull-mounted weapons
can swivel horizontally up to 45 º .
Or have you not clued in yet that I am obeying the rules.
Yup. I got rules on my side.
Start pointing to actual rules bud. You aren't fooling anybody with your shenanigans.
I never said rotation either. You are trying to strawman me.
Like I said your quoted passage only works to let your Obelisk have 360 LoS by also letting every gun on every vehicle have 360 LoS.
My argument is your lack of adequate rules to quote to support your position. You claim its 360 because its a sphere (which is what you responded with when i asked why your quoted passage doesn't make all guns on all vehicles 360 LoS). I'm asking you to quote your rule supporting that claim.
I have never claimed 360 rotation.
360 rotation is not required.
I will just rotate per the rules.
Spoiler:
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight
When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight
from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel to see if the shot is blocked by
intervening terrain or models.
If the target unit is in cover from only some of the vehicle’s weapons, then work out the
target’s cover saves exactly as if each firing weapon on the vehicle was a separate firing
unit. Note that, even when firing Barrage weapons, the target unit must be in the
weapon’s arc of sight.
On some models, it will actually be impossible to move the gun and point it towards the
target because of the way the model is assembled. In this case, players should assume
that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings. In the rare cases
when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 º , even if the barrel on the
model itself cannot physically do that! Additionally, assume all hull-mounted weapons
can swivel horizontally up to 45 º .
Or have you not clued in yet that I am obeying the rules.
Yup. I got rules on my side.
Start pointing to actual rules bud. You aren't fooling anybody with your shenanigans.
I never said rotation either. You are trying to strawman me.
Like I said your quoted passage only works to let your Obelisk have 360 LoS by also letting every gun on every vehicle have 360 LoS.
I am not strawmanning you.
I am however boldy pointing out to the thread that you have absolutely no rules behind your argument and I have 100% rules behind my argument. So you should attend to the fact that you have no rules support before pushing your argument on this thread.
I, however, have full rules justification.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/06/17 08:25:47
My argument is your lack of adequate rules to quote to support your position. You claim its 360 because its a sphere (which is what you responded with when i asked why your quoted passage doesn't make all guns on all vehicles 360 LoS). I'm asking you to quote your rule supporting that claim.
I have never claimed 360 rotation.
360 rotation is not required.
I will just rotate per the rules.
Spoiler:
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel to see if the shot is blocked by intervening terrain or models. If the target unit is in cover from only some of the vehicle’s weapons, then work out the target’s cover saves exactly as if each firing weapon on the vehicle was a separate firing unit. Note that, even when firing Barrage weapons, the target unit must be in the weapon’s arc of sight. On some models, it will actually be impossible to move the gun and point it towards the target because of the way the model is assembled. In this case, players should assume that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings. In the rare cases when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 º , even if the barrel on the model itself cannot physically do that! Additionally, assume all hull-mounted weapons can swivel horizontally up to 45 º .
Or have you not clued in yet that I am obeying the rules.
Yup. I got rules on my side.
Start pointing to actual rules bud. You aren't fooling anybody with your shenanigans.
I never said rotation either. You are trying to strawman me.
Like I said your quoted passage only works to let your Obelisk have 360 LoS by also letting every gun on every vehicle have 360 LoS.
I am not trying to strawman you.
I am however boldy pointing out to the thread that you have absolutely no rules behind your argument and I have 100% rules behind my argument. So you should attend to that.
I proved that you don't have adequate rule behind your argument. And your the one trying to prove that Tesla Spheres have 360 LoS, not me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/17 08:26:27
I proved that you don't have adequate rule behind your argument. And your the one trying to prove that Tesla Spheres have 360 LoS, not me.
I freely quoted rules support and have never claimed 360 LoS.
I HAVE CLAIMED that 3 Tesla Spheres can easily be brought to bear against any one target. This is all accomplished by rotating the spheres around their mounting per the rules. And I have full rules support.
Spoiler:
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight
When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight
from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel to see if the shot is blocked by
intervening terrain or models.
If the target unit is in cover from only some of the vehicle’s weapons, then work out the
target’s cover saves exactly as if each firing weapon on the vehicle was a separate firing
unit. Note that, even when firing Barrage weapons, the target unit must be in the
weapon’s arc of sight.
On some models, it will actually be impossible to move the gun and point it towards the
target because of the way the model is assembled. In this case, players should assume
that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings. In the rare cases
when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 º , even if the barrel on the
model itself cannot physically do that! Additionally, assume all hull-mounted weapons
can swivel horizontally up to 45 º .
So quit your obvious straw manning of me.
I have quoted the rules. You have quoted zero rules. ZERO.
You literally have no argument of merit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/17 08:31:54
CrownAxe wrote: You haven't proved that the gun barrel rotates with the sphere
The thread is still waiting for you to actually point to the part of the Obelisk that is the Tesla Sphere.
I am pointing to the spheres. I rotate those spheres around their mountings and I can easily bring to bear 3 Tesla Spheres against any one single target, just by following the rules.
What spheres are you pointing to? And, more importantly, what rules are you pointing to? I have been completely up front about which rules I am pointing to.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/06/17 08:43:06
CrownAxe wrote: You haven't proved that the gun barrel rotates with the sphere
The thread is still waiting for you to actually point to the part of the Obelisk that is the Tesla Sphere.
I am pointing to the spheres.
What are you pointing to?
I would point to the gun barrel on the railing which what you use to determine LoS as per the rulebook
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight "When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel"
You keep claiming that the sphere rotates, but you have yet to prove that the barrel (the part that actually draws LoS) can rotate. After all why is the gun mounting not like a globe?
Spoiler:
See how the sphere rotates, but the railing (which is where the barrel is attached) stays in a fixed position. You can't move the railing so you don't get 360 LoS
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/06/17 08:43:00
CrownAxe wrote: You haven't proved that the gun barrel rotates with the sphere
The thread is still waiting for you to actually point to the part of the Obelisk that is the Tesla Sphere.
I am pointing to the spheres.
What are you pointing to?
I would point to the gun barrel on the railing which what you use to determine LoS as per the rulebook
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight "When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel"
You keep claiming that the sphere rotates, but you have yet to prove that the barrel (the part that actually draws LoS) can rotate. After all why is the gun mounting not like a globe?
Spoiler:
See how the sphere rotates, but the railing (which is where the barrel is attached) stays in a fixed position. You can't move the railing so you don't get 360 LoS
The gun in question is called a sphere and not a rail. So once again I am pointing to a sphere and you are in the awkward position of pointing to something that is not a sphere. It sucks to be you in this argument.
The sphere rotates into position. And the Obelisk can easily bring 3 Tesla Spheres to bear onto any single target.
Them's the rules.
And you have yet to quote a rule taking away the permission I have redundantly claimed.
Spoiler:
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight
When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight
from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel to see if the shot is blocked by
intervening terrain or models.
If the target unit is in cover from only some of the vehicle’s weapons, then work out the
target’s cover saves exactly as if each firing weapon on the vehicle was a separate firing
unit. Note that, even when firing Barrage weapons, the target unit must be in the
weapon’s arc of sight.
On some models, it will actually be impossible to move the gun and point it towards the
target because of the way the model is assembled. In this case, players should assume
that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings. In the rare cases
when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 º , even if the barrel on the
model itself cannot physically do that! Additionally, assume all hull-mounted weapons
can swivel horizontally up to 45 º .
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/17 08:50:00
CrownAxe wrote: You haven't proved that the gun barrel rotates with the sphere
The thread is still waiting for you to actually point to the part of the Obelisk that is the Tesla Sphere.
I am pointing to the spheres.
What are you pointing to?
I would point to the gun barrel on the railing which what you use to determine LoS as per the rulebook
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight "When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel"
You keep claiming that the sphere rotates, but you have yet to prove that the barrel (the part that actually draws LoS) can rotate. After all why is the gun mounting not like a globe?
Spoiler:
See how the sphere rotates, but the railing (which is where the barrel is attached) stays in a fixed position. You can't move the railing so you don't get 360 LoS
The gun in question is called a sphere and not a rail. So once again I am pointing to a sphere and you are in the awkward position of pointing to something that is not a sphere. It sucks to be you in this argument.
The sphere rotates into position. And the Obelisk can easily bring 3 Tesla Spheres to bear onto any single target.
Them's the rules.
And you have yet to quote a rule taking away the permission I have redundantly claimed.
My assessment of the Tesla Sphere still has a sphere, it just isn't used to determine LoS
Can you prove why Tesla Sphere has to use the sphere to determine LoS despite it not being the gun's barrel?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/17 08:52:01
CrownAxe wrote: You haven't proved that the gun barrel rotates with the sphere
The thread is still waiting for you to actually point to the part of the Obelisk that is the Tesla Sphere.
I am pointing to the spheres.
What are you pointing to?
I would point to the gun barrel on the railing which what you use to determine LoS as per the rulebook
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight "When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel"
You keep claiming that the sphere rotates, but you have yet to prove that the barrel (the part that actually draws LoS) can rotate. After all why is the gun mounting not like a globe?
Spoiler:
See how the sphere rotates, but the railing (which is where the barrel is attached) stays in a fixed position. You can't move the railing so you don't get 360 LoS
The gun in question is called a sphere and not a rail. So once again I am pointing to a sphere and you are in the awkward position of pointing to something that is not a sphere. It sucks to be you in this argument.
The sphere rotates into position. And the Obelisk can easily bring 3 Tesla Spheres to bear onto any single target.
Them's the rules.
And you have yet to quote a rule taking away the permission I have redundantly claimed.
My assessment of the Tesla Sphere still has a sphere, it just isn't used to determine LoS
Can you prove why Tesla Sphere has to use the sphere to determine LoS despite it not being the gun's barrel?
Per the rules I have redundantly and freely quoted, the Tesla Sphere rotates around its mountings despite its fixed assembly.
So, per the rules, I can imagine the "barrel" of the sphere gun rotated according to any which position the mounting of the sphere would allow.
Them's the rules, bud.
Spoiler:
Vehicles Weapons & Line of Sight
When firing a vehicle’s weapons, point them at the target and then trace line of sight
from each weapons’ mounting and along its barrel to see if the shot is blocked by
intervening terrain or models.
If the target unit is in cover from only some of the vehicle’s weapons, then work out the
target’s cover saves exactly as if each firing weapon on the vehicle was a separate firing
unit. Note that, even when firing Barrage weapons, the target unit must be in the
weapon’s arc of sight.
On some models, it will actually be impossible to move the gun and point it towards the
target because of the way the model is assembled. In this case, players should assume
that the guns on a vehicle are free to rotate or swivel on their mountings. In the rare cases
when it matters, assume that guns can swivel vertically up to 45 º , even if the barrel on the
model itself cannot physically do that! Additionally, assume all hull-mounted weapons
can swivel horizontally up to 45 º .
At this point I have 100% rules on my side and you have no rules on your side. You should take this matter to YMDC as you are spamming this thread at this point.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/17 08:58:25
