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If we can try to be a lot more polite towards each other please.
Thank you.
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Here's a question. Is it possible to build a melee focused Necron army at 1500 points? What are the best options for this and how useable/effective would this concept be?
"Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it? The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The Wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always!" —Jago Sevatarion
DR:80SGMB--I--Pw40k01#-D++++A+/fWD-R++T(T)DM+
Lord Blackscale wrote: Here's a question. Is it possible to build a melee focused Necron army at 1500 points? What are the best options for this and how useable/effective would this concept be?
Very! Assaultcrons are very solid. All of our pure assault units (with the possible exception of C'tan if you consider them as such) are well costed and effective. Wraiths are strong, Lychguard are durable, Praets are fast and solid in combat, Flayed Ones put out buckets of dice and are extremely durable for their cost, even units of Spyders aren't bad options. And Warscythe HQs make short work of many enemies.
If you want as purely Assault with no filler, you'll want to run a CAD. But, Decurion makes Flayed Ones and Praetorians suuuuper durable for their points. What were you thinking of taking?
Lord Blackscale wrote: Here's a question. Is it possible to build a melee focused Necron army at 1500 points? What are the best options for this and how useable/effective would this concept be?
Very! Assaultcrons are very solid. All of our pure assault units (with the possible exception of C'tan if you consider them as such) are well costed and effective. Wraiths are strong, Lychguard are durable, Praets are fast and solid in combat, Flayed Ones put out buckets of dice and are extremely durable for their cost, even units of Spyders aren't bad options. And Warscythe HQs make short work of many enemies.
If you want as purely Assault with no filler, you'll want to run a CAD. But, Decurion makes Flayed Ones and Praetorians suuuuper durable for their points. What were you thinking of taking?
Not really sure. Thinking of starting a Cron army and wanted to do it differently. As my Chaos should be good in melee, but aren't really, I want a good assault list. I was going to do Dark Eldar or Nids but they can't survive long enough to get into melee a lot. I will mess with Battlescribe and post a list here for critique.
Automatically Appended Next Post: HQ- 320
Destroyer Lord - Phase Shifter, Phylactery, Nightmare Shroud, Warscythe
Overlord (warlord) - Voidreaper, Gauntlet of Fire, Phylactery
Elites - 420
Flayed ones - 10X Flayed Ones
Lychguard - Sword n Board
Triaech Praetorians -Rod of the Covenant
Put the Overlord with the Lychguard and the Destroyer Lord with the Flayed Ones.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/17 13:22:44
"Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it? The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The Wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always!" —Jago Sevatarion
DR:80SGMB--I--Pw40k01#-D++++A+/fWD-R++T(T)DM+
Klowny wrote:Sorry to re ask this, but how does the deathmarks special rule help confer to the d/lord?
A very good question. I'm sure GW's response will be "The unit retains the rule but the IC does not gain it", as it has been for many equivalent responses.
Assuming that, I'm pretty unsure what that means for the attached DLord. If he's attached, he can't come in automatically, but they can, so he probably un-attaches? They can still Deep Strike together normally, though, which isn't bad. Check with a TO, I'd say, but normally I'd err on the side of caution so no one can blame your for rules lawyering.
Lord Blackscale wrote: Here's a question. Is it possible to build a melee focused Necron army at 1500 points? What are the best options for this and how useable/effective would this concept be?
Very! Assaultcrons are very solid. All of our pure assault units (with the possible exception of C'tan if you consider them as such) are well costed and effective. Wraiths are strong, Lychguard are durable, Praets are fast and solid in combat, Flayed Ones put out buckets of dice and are extremely durable for their cost, even units of Spyders aren't bad options. And Warscythe HQs make short work of many enemies.
If you want as purely Assault with no filler, you'll want to run a CAD. But, Decurion makes Flayed Ones and Praetorians suuuuper durable for their points. What were you thinking of taking?
Not really sure. Thinking of starting a Cron army and wanted to do it differently. As my Chaos should be good in melee, but aren't really, I want a good assault list. I was going to do Dark Eldar or Nids but they can't survive long enough to get into melee a lot. I will mess with Battlescribe and post a list here for critique.
Here's the things to consider:
Wraiths are fast, but have no guns and rely on Rending for their AP. They're very good at killing "normal" units but can struggle against things like Deathstars or GCs/SHVs. Fearless.
Praetorians are also fast. They have guns and AP2 in Assault, but have less Attacks and no Invuln. However, they have Reanimation naturally, which helps them be nearly as durable as Wraiths. Fearless.
Lychguard are slow, but are more powerful at the two extremes. Shield Lychguard are extremely durable (especially when you put Orikan and a couple ICs in there). Warscythe Lychguard are extremely killy, since S7 AP2 Armorbane will remove nearly anything from the board in one go. Not Fearless, so be careful for sweeps against power units.
Flayed Ones are slow, but they can Outflank/Infiltrate. They're less durable, but they're super cheap and you can bring lots. In Assault, AP5 is balanced out by a massive number of attacks (5 on the charge with Shred!), so you can end up doing just as much damage as some of the other powerful units against anything not T8.
Spyders are slow, but T6 is great. They only get RP in the Harvest formation, but then they're also limited to 1 model per unit (not good if you want them to be an actual Assault unit). Pair them with Scarab blobs, which they can buff up and send out to tie up other things. This is a better MC Assault list than Nids, imo
Hope this helps!
Automatically Appended Next Post: To your edit:
Lord Blackscale wrote: Automatically Appended Next Post: HQ- 320
Destroyer Lord - Phase Shifter, Phylactery, Nightmare Shroud, Warscythe
Overlord (warlord) - Voidreaper, Gauntlet of Fire, Phylactery
Elites - 420
Flayed ones - 10X Flayed Ones
Lychguard - Sword n Board
Triaech Praetorians -Rod of the Covenant
Put the Overlord with the Lychguard and the Destroyer Lord with the Flayed Ones.
Not a bad start. Just remember that you can't deploy any ICs with the Flayed Ones since they have Infiltrate, unless you roll the Strategic Warlord Trait. For the Overlord, defensive upgrades are better. Res Orb or Phase Shifter would be better than the other two options, try to find the 5 points somewhere.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/17 13:33:06
Klowny wrote:Sorry to re ask this, but how does the deathmarks special rule help confer to the d/lord?
A very good question. I'm sure GW's response will be "The unit retains the rule but the IC does not gain it", as it has been for many equivalent responses.
Assuming that, I'm pretty unsure what that means for the attached DLord. If he's attached, he can't come in automatically, but they can, so he probably un-attaches? They can still Deep Strike together normally, though, which isn't bad. Check with a TO, I'd say, but normally I'd err on the side of caution so no one can blame your for rules lawyering.
Lord Blackscale wrote: Here's a question. Is it possible to build a melee focused Necron army at 1500 points? What are the best options for this and how useable/effective would this concept be?
Very! Assaultcrons are very solid. All of our pure assault units (with the possible exception of C'tan if you consider them as such) are well costed and effective. Wraiths are strong, Lychguard are durable, Praets are fast and solid in combat, Flayed Ones put out buckets of dice and are extremely durable for their cost, even units of Spyders aren't bad options. And Warscythe HQs make short work of many enemies.
If you want as purely Assault with no filler, you'll want to run a CAD. But, Decurion makes Flayed Ones and Praetorians suuuuper durable for their points. What were you thinking of taking?
Not really sure. Thinking of starting a Cron army and wanted to do it differently. As my Chaos should be good in melee, but aren't really, I want a good assault list. I was going to do Dark Eldar or Nids but they can't survive long enough to get into melee a lot. I will mess with Battlescribe and post a list here for critique.
Here's the things to consider:
Wraiths are fast, but have no guns and rely on Rending for their AP. They're very good at killing "normal" units but can struggle against things like Deathstars or GCs/SHVs. Fearless.
Praetorians are also fast. They have guns and AP2 in Assault, but have less Attacks and no Invuln. However, they have Reanimation naturally, which helps them be nearly as durable as Wraiths. Fearless.
Lychguard are slow, but are more powerful at the two extremes. Shield Lychguard are extremely durable (especially when you put Orikan and a couple ICs in there). Warscythe Lychguard are extremely killy, since S7 AP2 Armorbane will remove nearly anything from the board in one go. Not Fearless, so be careful for sweeps against power units.
Flayed Ones are slow, but they can Outflank/Infiltrate. They're less durable, but they're super cheap and you can bring lots. In Assault, AP5 is balanced out by a massive number of attacks (5 on the charge with Shred!), so you can end up doing just as much damage as some of the other powerful units against anything not T8.
Spyders are slow, but T6 is great. They only get RP in the Harvest formation, but then they're also limited to 1 model per unit (not good if you want them to be an actual Assault unit). Pair them with Scarab blobs, which they can buff up and send out to tie up other things. This is a better MC Assault list than Nids, imo
Hope this helps!
Automatically Appended Next Post: To your edit:
Lord Blackscale wrote: Automatically Appended Next Post: HQ- 320
Destroyer Lord - Phase Shifter, Phylactery, Nightmare Shroud, Warscythe
Overlord (warlord) - Voidreaper, Gauntlet of Fire, Phylactery
Elites - 420
Flayed ones - 10X Flayed Ones
Lychguard - Sword n Board
Triaech Praetorians -Rod of the Covenant
Put the Overlord with the Lychguard and the Destroyer Lord with the Flayed Ones.
Not a bad start. Just remember that you can't deploy any ICs with the Flayed Ones since they have Infiltrate, unless you roll the Strategic Warlord Trait. For the Overlord, defensive upgrades are better. Res Orb or Phase Shifter would be better than the other two options, try to find the 5 points somewhere.
HQ- 320
Destroyer Lord - Phase Shifter, Phylactery, Nightmare Shroud, Warscythe
Overlord (warlord) - Warscythe, Gauntlet of Fire, Phase Shifter
Elites - 420
Flayed ones - 10X Flayed Ones
Lychguard - Sword n Board
Triaech Praetorians -Rod of the Covenant
Made a small change. Perhaps put D-Lord with Praetorians instead?
"Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it? The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The Wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always!" —Jago Sevatarion
DR:80SGMB--I--Pw40k01#-D++++A+/fWD-R++T(T)DM+
Well that certainly went places I didn't expect, I logged a question on the FAQ, if you guys want to do the same that would probably help get an answer. With any luck we can get an answer in the Necron specific FAQ, whenever they get around to us. I get the feeling that we are within an army or two of being next, might just be wishful thinking though.
My final thought is it's a very silly unit if the spheres count as fixed hull mounted weapons since they can't shoot units close to the obelisk, and the fluff seems to point to them being turret like, even if the rules are shaky. So until the FAQ, I'll just make sure that me and my opponent are on the same page with the rules, and if not, I'll play a different list. Poor bastards won't even realize that they rules lawyered me into a much meaner list and that i was trying to take it easy one them.
As for the question on D-lords getting the ability to counter deepstrike, It was made specifically clear in the FAQ:
Q: Do rules applying to the unit, such as those from formation command benefits, or unit wide special rules apply to any attached independent characters?
A: Yes
So yeah totally works, and this is backed up by them saying that infiltrate is a specific exception to this ruling. You would need to be going after some big fish for it to be worth it point wise.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/17 15:43:17
Constantly being negative doesn't make you seem erudite, it just makes you look like a curmudgeon.
skoffs wrote: ... did I just have to wade through four pages of gak that should have been on the YMDC board just to get back to the tactics discussion?
Is there any way to prevent this from happening in the future?
As for the question on D-lords getting the ability to counter deepstrike, It was made specifically clear in the FAQ:
Q: Do rules applying to the unit, such as those from formation command benefits, or unit wide special rules apply to any attached independent characters?
A: Yes
So yeah totally works, and this is backed up by them saying that infiltrate is a specific exception to this ruling. You would need to be going after some big fish for it to be worth it point wise.
Read the text under the picture, they changed it to No (can't update FB pictures).
Automatically Appended Next Post:
oz of the north wrote: Going back a few pages, about a obelisk being used. At the LVO it was actually in one of the top 8 which is impressive.
It is great if you know you are going to be facing a flier heavy army with the grav pulse thingy.
He was more using it for T2 mega strike by dragging out the Monolith and then using that to pull models into midfield. The mobility from that formation is pretty sick.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/17 15:53:42
Klowny wrote:Sorry to re ask this, but how does the deathmarks special rule help confer to the d/lord?
A very good question. I'm sure GW's response will be "The unit retains the rule but the IC does not gain it", as it has been for many equivalent responses.
Assuming that, I'm pretty unsure what that means for the attached DLord. If he's attached, he can't come in automatically, but they can, so he probably un-attaches? They can still Deep Strike together normally, though, which isn't bad. Check with a TO, I'd say, but normally I'd err on the side of caution so no one can blame your for rules lawyering.
Lord Blackscale wrote: Here's a question. Is it possible to build a melee focused Necron army at 1500 points? What are the best options for this and how useable/effective would this concept be?
Very! Assaultcrons are very solid. All of our pure assault units (with the possible exception of C'tan if you consider them as such) are well costed and effective. Wraiths are strong, Lychguard are durable, Praets are fast and solid in combat, Flayed Ones put out buckets of dice and are extremely durable for their cost, even units of Spyders aren't bad options. And Warscythe HQs make short work of many enemies.
If you want as purely Assault with no filler, you'll want to run a CAD. But, Decurion makes Flayed Ones and Praetorians suuuuper durable for their points. What were you thinking of taking?
Not really sure. Thinking of starting a Cron army and wanted to do it differently. As my Chaos should be good in melee, but aren't really, I want a good assault list. I was going to do Dark Eldar or Nids but they can't survive long enough to get into melee a lot. I will mess with Battlescribe and post a list here for critique.
Here's the things to consider:
Wraiths are fast, but have no guns and rely on Rending for their AP. They're very good at killing "normal" units but can struggle against things like Deathstars or GCs/SHVs. Fearless.
Praetorians are also fast. They have guns and AP2 in Assault, but have less Attacks and no Invuln. However, they have Reanimation naturally, which helps them be nearly as durable as Wraiths. Fearless.
Lychguard are slow, but are more powerful at the two extremes. Shield Lychguard are extremely durable (especially when you put Orikan and a couple ICs in there). Warscythe Lychguard are extremely killy, since S7 AP2 Armorbane will remove nearly anything from the board in one go. Not Fearless, so be careful for sweeps against power units.
Flayed Ones are slow, but they can Outflank/Infiltrate. They're less durable, but they're super cheap and you can bring lots. In Assault, AP5 is balanced out by a massive number of attacks (5 on the charge with Shred!), so you can end up doing just as much damage as some of the other powerful units against anything not T8.
Spyders are slow, but T6 is great. They only get RP in the Harvest formation, but then they're also limited to 1 model per unit (not good if you want them to be an actual Assault unit). Pair them with Scarab blobs, which they can buff up and send out to tie up other things. This is a better MC Assault list than Nids, imo
Hope this helps!
Automatically Appended Next Post: To your edit:
Lord Blackscale wrote: Automatically Appended Next Post: HQ- 320
Destroyer Lord - Phase Shifter, Phylactery, Nightmare Shroud, Warscythe
Overlord (warlord) - Voidreaper, Gauntlet of Fire, Phylactery
Elites - 420
Flayed ones - 10X Flayed Ones
Lychguard - Sword n Board
Triaech Praetorians -Rod of the Covenant
Put the Overlord with the Lychguard and the Destroyer Lord with the Flayed Ones.
Not a bad start. Just remember that you can't deploy any ICs with the Flayed Ones since they have Infiltrate, unless you roll the Strategic Warlord Trait. For the Overlord, defensive upgrades are better. Res Orb or Phase Shifter would be better than the other two options, try to find the 5 points somewhere.
HQ- 320
Destroyer Lord - Phase Shifter, Phylactery, Nightmare Shroud, Warscythe
Overlord (warlord) - Warscythe, Gauntlet of Fire, Phase Shifter
Elites - 420
Flayed ones - 10X Flayed Ones
Lychguard - Sword n Board
Triaech Praetorians -Rod of the Covenant
Made a small change. Perhaps put D-Lord with Praetorians instead?
RE: The wraiths. Why not equip them with whip coils? getting first strike vs most enemies is worth quite a lot, and can be the difference between getting to attack or not. I'd also be tempted to scrap the ghost ark entirely in favor of more wraiths and/or bikes.
My Project Blog: Necrons, Orks, Sisters, Blood Angels, and X-Wing "
"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How it got into my pajamas, I'll never know." Groucho Marx
~A grammatically correct sentence can have multiple, valid interpretations.
Arguing over the facts is the lowest form of debate.
So with necron FAQs around the corner what is everyone hoping to see and worried about?
hoping to see: Praetorians able to use their DT (even if i don't use flyers anyway)
worried about: nerfing the nightbringers gaze of death to an autohit shooting attack
Is there anything really big in the necron codex that needs an FAQ about?
It's easy to assume that people arguing an interpretation you disagree with are just looking for an advantage for themselves... But it's quite often not the case.
Well there are arguments about how many Spyders you can take in harvests. Also with the retribution phalanx, there is arguments as to how many scarabs come back when the 'From the Sands, We Rise' rule is activated, original squad or buffed up amount from the Spyder. Would be nice to get the official word on these wans
Klowny wrote: Well there are arguments about how many Spyders you can take in harvests.
They took care of that in the main rulebook FAQ:
Q: When listing Formations, sometimes it states ‘1 model’ (like 1 Tomb Spyder), while other times it lists ‘1 Unit of models’ (like 1 unit of Tomb Blades). Are these interchangeable?
A: No. The former means a single model of the type listed, while the later means a single unit of the type listed.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Klowny wrote: Well there are arguments about how many Spyders you can take in harvests.
They took care of that in the main rulebook FAQ:
Q: When listing Formations, sometimes it states ‘1 model’ (like 1 Tomb Spyder), while other times it lists ‘1 Unit of models’ (like 1 unit of Tomb Blades). Are these interchangeable?
A: No. The former means a single model of the type listed, while the later means a single unit of the type listed.
Not exactly. The ALE for the Canoptek Spyder still permits you to add additional Spyders and the Canoptek Harvest formation still lists no restrictions. So you can add additional Spyders just as easily as you can add a Ghost Ark to the unit of warriors in a Reclamation Legion.
Hopefully they will clear the matter up in the Necron FAQ.
Klowny wrote: Well there are arguments about how many Spyders you can take in harvests.
They took care of that in the main rulebook FAQ:
Q: When listing Formations, sometimes it states ‘1 model’ (like 1 Tomb Spyder), while other times it lists ‘1 Unit of models’ (like 1 unit of Tomb Blades). Are these interchangeable?
A: No. The former means a single model of the type listed, while the later means a single unit of the type listed.
Not exactly. The ALE for the Canoptek Spyder still permits you to add additional Spyders and the Canoptek Harvest formation still lists no restrictions. So you can add additional Spyders just as easily as you can add a Ghost Ark to the unit of warriors in a Reclamation Legion.
Hopefully they will clear the matter up in the Necron FAQ.
No. Just no. The main book FAQ is clear.
1 Tomb Spyder is not a unit of Tomb Spyders. You can upgrade that spyder, but you can't do upgrades for the unit of Spyders (like additional spyders...)
The Reclamation Legion says that you can take Units of Warriors, so you can use the upgrades for the unit.
My Project Blog: Necrons, Orks, Sisters, Blood Angels, and X-Wing "
"One morning I shot an elephant in my pajamas. How it got into my pajamas, I'll never know." Groucho Marx
~A grammatically correct sentence can have multiple, valid interpretations.
Arguing over the facts is the lowest form of debate.
Klowny wrote: Well there are arguments about how many Spyders you can take in harvests.
They took care of that in the main rulebook FAQ:
Q: When listing Formations, sometimes it states ‘1 model’ (like 1 Tomb Spyder), while other times it lists ‘1 Unit of models’ (like 1 unit of Tomb Blades). Are these interchangeable?
A: No. The former means a single model of the type listed, while the later means a single unit of the type listed.
Not exactly. The ALE for the Canoptek Spyder still permits you to add additional Spyders and the Canoptek Harvest formation still lists no restrictions. So you can add additional Spyders just as easily as you can add a Ghost Ark to the unit of warriors in a Reclamation Legion.
Hopefully they will clear the matter up in the Necron FAQ.
No. Just no. The main book FAQ is clear.
1 Tomb Spyder is not a unit of Tomb Spyders. You can upgrade that spyder, but you can't do upgrades for the unit of Spyders (like additional spyders...)
The Reclamation Legion says that you can take Units of Warriors, so you can use the upgrades for the unit.
There's an option to add additional Spyders and no restriction that takes that away.
Feel free to point to an actual rule that takes away the permission.
The problem is that you are still having to argue based on intent, since you have no rules to back your rules interpretation.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/02 20:24:40
Klowny wrote: Well there are arguments about how many Spyders you can take in harvests.
They took care of that in the main rulebook FAQ:
Q: When listing Formations, sometimes it states ‘1 model’ (like 1 Tomb Spyder), while other times it lists ‘1 Unit of models’ (like 1 unit of Tomb Blades). Are these interchangeable?
A: No. The former means a single model of the type listed, while the later means a single unit of the type listed.
Not exactly. The ALE for the Canoptek Spyder still permits you to add additional Spyders and the Canoptek Harvest formation still lists no restrictions. So you can add additional Spyders just as easily as you can add a Ghost Ark to the unit of warriors in a Reclamation Legion.
Hopefully they will clear the matter up in the Necron FAQ.
No. Just no. The main book FAQ is clear.
1 Tomb Spyder is not a unit of Tomb Spyders. You can upgrade that spyder, but you can't do upgrades for the unit of Spyders (like additional spyders...)
The Reclamation Legion says that you can take Units of Warriors, so you can use the upgrades for the unit.
There's an option to add additional Spyders and no restriction that takes that away.
Feel free to point to an actual rule that takes away the permission.
The problem is that you are still having to argue based on intent, since you have no rules to back your rules interpretation.
A model can't take another model as an upgrade. Because then it becomes a unit and the GWFAQ says "The former means a single model of the type listed, while the later means a single unit of the type listed.". Unit is not a model. You can't take a unit, you can take a model. The Spyder is a model. Multiple Spyders are a unit. The formation allows one model. You are trying to bring a unit. THIS IS NOT COMPATIBLE.
The Cult Mechanicus and Skitarii FAQs have a question asking if "1 Onager Dunecrawler" in a Formation allows for a unit, and they said no, a model cannot be upgraded to have more models. This is exactly the same as the Spyder situation and they ruled on it. This is a clear precedent and there is no reason in any way shape or form to believe that the Harvest will work any differently.
PLEASE STOP TRYING TO FORCE INCORRECT INTERPRETATIONS WHEN IT IS VERY CLEAR WHAT IS HAPPENING.
A model can't take another model as an upgrade. Because then it becomes a unit and the GWFAQ says "The former means a single model of the type listed, while the later means a single unit of the type listed.". Unit is not a model. You can't take a unit, you can take a model. The Spyder is a model. Multiple Spyders are a unit. The formation allows one model. You are trying to bring a unit. THIS IS NOT COMPATIBLE.
The Cult Mechanicus and Skitarii FAQs have a question asking if "1 Onager Dunecrawler" in a Formation allows for a unit, and they said no, a model cannot be upgraded to have more models. This is exactly the same as the Spyder situation and they ruled on it. This is a clear precedent and there is no reason in any way shape or form to believe that the Harvest will work any differently.
PLEASE STOP TRYING TO FORCE INCORRECT INTERPRETATIONS WHEN IT IS VERY CLEAR WHAT IS HAPPENING.
No need to shout. I never force incorrect interpretations on anyone. I merely point out what is RAW and what is RAI. If you want to shout at somebody, pick up a phone and call GW for their sloppy rules.
Hopefully they will answer the question the same way in the Necron codex as they did in the Cult Mechanicus codex. The question was not answered in the main BRBFAQ so it doesn't carry over to the Necron codex. Looking at another codex's FAQ for precedent and applying that precedent to the Necrons is still arguing from intent and there is no rule actively restricting the permission to add additional Spyders in the formation.
col_impact wrote: The question was not answered in the main BRBFAQ so it doesn't carry over to the Necron codex.
Literally the first question on this page in the BRBFAQ, even referencing the Harvest. This question, which is for The Rules and therefore affects all Codexes as well, makes it clear that a Formation at references 1 [model] is different from 1 [unit of model]. It is now RAW per the FAQ. Playing it any other way is incorrect or houseruling.
Model is different from unit, and again, adding more Spyders makes it a unit. You cannot take a unit, you can only take a model. Per RAW.
Point to the rule which says I cannot add more Spyders.
I can point to the rule which says I can add more Spyders.
Secondly, please explain how the Spyder model that is not in a unit is allowed to participate in the movement phase, the shooting phase, or the assault phase. Those phases only allow models that are in units to participate.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/07/03 00:31:44
col_impact wrote: Point to the rule which says I cannot add more Spyders.
Show me the rule that says I can't take weight my dice. Show me the rule that says I can't place new line of sight blocking terrain on the table whenever I feel like it.
Congratulations on becoming the first person I've ever blocked on a forum.
col_impact wrote: Point to the rule which says I cannot add more Spyders.
Show me the rule that says I can't take weight my dice. Show me the rule that says I can't place new line of sight blocking terrain on the table whenever I feel like it.
Congratulations on becoming the first person I've ever blocked on a forum.
I guess that's your way of conceding and recognizing that there still is a loose end in the rules. Hopefully they will address that loose end in the Necron FAQ.
WTF, why are people still responding to anything he says?
Didn't we already go over this a few pages ago?
Seriously, reds8n (or any mods, really), can we have the next people who try to start a YMDC fight in the middle of a tactics thread receive a temporary ban?
I can't be the only one who is utterly sick of this crap.
"Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it? The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The Wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always!" —Jago Sevatarion
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