Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Night Scythes won't stop Tau Interceptor/Overwatch shenanigans, though it will at least allow you you avoid scatter and clumping up (plus, super rerollable Tesla Destructor is always nice... but paying for a Stalker and not using it apart from granting those rerolls is a bit of a waste).

Alternatively, what about drowning them in wounds?
(throw a bunch of MSU Flayed Ones at them. At best, they'll eventually fail saves against that many attacks. At worst, you'll have tied them up with one of the cheapest throwaway units we have).

 skoffs wrote:
Night Scythes won't stop Tau Interceptor/Overwatch shenanigans, though it will at least allow you you avoid scatter and clumping up (plus, super rerollable Tesla Destructor is always nice... but paying for a Stalker and not using it apart from granting those rerolls is a bit of a waste).

Alternatively, what about drowning them in wounds?
(throw a bunch of MSU Flayed Ones at them. At best, they'll eventually fail saves against that many attacks. At worst, you'll have tied them up with one of the cheapest throwaway units we have).

If you go for the canoptek harvest or are already using it drown them with scarabs with rp max out the squad and keep adding scarabs while you get there. Either the tau player will waste shots at it which means it won't be shooting at other important units or it builds up and locks the riptide in forever with no escape, win-win either way

Problem is Riptide Wing will be likely to have more Tides than you would tarpitting Harvest units. If he puts them close enough to each other that you can multi charge, okay, cool. If not you're still going to have a lot of unengaged big guns running around the table...

Riptide really aren't that much of an issue for us, though. Kill the Markerlights and the rest of our army can withstand the firepower they dish out.

Early warning override makes even night scythes a risky delivery option.

 Grimgold wrote:
Early warning override makes even night scythes a risky delivery option.

It also makes them unable to shoot the next turn, and that means they didn't take other things on their suits. You can also play around that by deploying into cover.

Hey guys, I've got a crazy idea, but I need to figure out something first:
What is the optimal number of Flayed Ones for a unit if you're going MSU?

Too few and they'll get swept too easily.
Too many and it will be overkill in a lot of situations.
What is that sweet spot of juuuuust the right amount of shred bots?

10 easily.

I am hoping skoffs is going for a 10x10 flayed one list with Imhotekh!!

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
10 easily.

Now why is it 10 and not, say, 7 or 12?
(looking for the reasoning behind the number, eg. "Less likely to be swept because you'd need to lose X models before they need to worry about reduced leadership" etc)

col_impact wrote:
I am hoping skoffs is going for a 10x10 flayed one list with Imhotekh!!

Flayed Ones with Imhotekh might be good if it weren't for the random factor.
[edit] oh, wait, I'm thinking of the old rules. Did they remove the random unit gets bloodswarm thing? I don't use Imhotekh...

 skoffs wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
10 easily.

Now why is it 10 and not, say, 7 or 12?
(looking for the reasoning behind the number, eg. "Less likely to be swept because you'd need to lose X models before they need to worry about reduced leadership" etc)

col_impact wrote:
I am hoping skoffs is going for a 10x10 flayed one list with Imhotekh!!

Flayed Ones with Imhotekh might be good if it weren't for the random factor.
[edit] oh, wait, I'm thinking of the old rules. Did they remove the random unit gets bloodswarm thing? I don't use Imhotekh...

I am not following you. Imotekh reduces the randomness of the flayed ones deep striking, correct?

 skoffs wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
10 easily.

Now why is it 10 and not, say, 7 or 12?
(looking for the reasoning behind the number, eg. "Less likely to be swept because you'd need to lose X models before they need to worry about reduced leadership" etc)

col_impact wrote:
I am hoping skoffs is going for a 10x10 flayed one list with Imhotekh!!

Flayed Ones with Imhotekh might be good if it weren't for the random factor.
[edit] oh, wait, I'm thinking of the old rules. Did they remove the random unit gets bloodswarm thing? I don't use Imhotekh...

10 is just enough that you can get shot at, go into melee with more than 20 shredding attacks after overwatch, and get stuck.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:
Early warning override makes even night scythes a risky delivery option.

It also makes them unable to shoot the next turn, and that means they didn't take other things on their suits. You can also play around that by deploying into cover.

Also true, but just the weapons they fired, and a riptide will have more than one weapon. They could cook you with their Plasma on your turn and still have Nova Ion accelerator left over for desert on theirs. Deploying into cover will help, but they can ignore cover on their turn. To last more than a single shooting phase you need to be out of LoS until you charge, or have a good invul save. That's a turn three charge at the soonest, so using prats from night scythes takes half the game to get there, dies horribly if they kill their target in the wrong players turn, and is heavily dependent on terrain.

 krodarklorr wrote:
This really sucks. An army that was once renowned for how tough it's vehicles were never fields a single vehicle. That's sad.

Then again, GW nerfing the ghost ark further, putting open-topped on everything, making vehicles suck in general, and adding D-weapons everywhere that don't care about your AV is just making vehicles more and more worthless.

Sorry to bring this back up, but made me chuckle.

I recently built my monolith as I adore the model and its what got me into necrons in the first place.

Battle 1, 1000 points vs guards, took 2 rounds to explode (he got extremely lucky on rolls)
Battle 2, 1250 points vs admech, stole initiative, blew it up before it did literally anything.

 skoffs wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
10 easily.

Now why is it 10 and not, say, 7 or 12?
(looking for the reasoning behind the number, eg. "Less likely to be swept because you'd need to lose X models before they need to worry about reduced leadership" etc)

col_impact wrote:
I am hoping skoffs is going for a 10x10 flayed one list with Imhotekh!!

Flayed Ones with Imhotekh might be good if it weren't for the random factor.
[edit] oh, wait, I'm thinking of the old rules. Did they remove the random unit gets bloodswarm thing? I don't use Imhotekh...

They did remove the random unit business. Now, Flayed Ones reroll on a deepstrike. Add that with a Destroyer Cult (additional Deepstrikers)... could be fun in very large games.
Numbers wise, I'm thinking 8 is a pretty good number. With the reroll you can reliably place them on top of objectives, and they are resilient enough to survive a lot of shooting. I don't expect them to go toe-to-toe with my opponents assault units (got a Lychstar for that), but I do expect them to eat up a number of his backfield objectives holding units.

How viable would it be to deepstrike a unit of Flayed Ones with an attached Destroyer Lord (Warscythe, Phase Shifter, Nightmare Shroud) and melee Overlord (Warscythe, Phase Shifter, Res Orb and Veil)?

DLord tanks unless (until?) he splits off for gits and shiggles. Overlord with the Veil so he can deepstrike and then sticks around for Res Orb'ing, possible challenges and possible repositioning with said Veil.

Warscythes and Flayed Ones typically want different targets, don't they?
Plus, kind of a waste to give FOs preferred enemy when they already have shred...

Doesn't an IC need infiltrate in order to join a unit with infiltrate?

Infiltrate, yes... but they still could deep strike with an attached Destroyer Lord. But as skoffs said, they want different targets. You can split the Destroyer Lord off after Interceptor Fire, etc, but T5 3++ isn't all that tough (and a lot of points to make it 2+/3++) and not fast enough to get to reliably get to what you want that Warscythe to kill.

Right now I'm thinking 3 units of 8 at 1500 (no Imotehk) and 4 Units of 8 at 1850 (with Imotehk) on top of a basic decurion/Lychstar.

 Anpu-adom wrote:
... but they still could deep strike with an attached Destroyer Lord.

Unless they FAQ'd this and I don't know about it, then you can't do this. Even though they made Infiltrate optional, you still can't put an IC in there according to the FAQ.

Klowny wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
This really sucks. An army that was once renowned for how tough it's vehicles were never fields a single vehicle. That's sad.

Then again, GW nerfing the ghost ark further, putting open-topped on everything, making vehicles suck in general, and adding D-weapons everywhere that don't care about your AV is just making vehicles more and more worthless.

Sorry to bring this back up, but made me chuckle.

I recently built my monolith as I adore the model and its what got me into necrons in the first place.

Battle 1, 1000 points vs guards, took 2 rounds to explode (he got extremely lucky on rolls)
Battle 2, 1250 points vs admech, stole initiative, blew it up before it did literally anything.

Yeah. I will, however, be using one in a apoc game this weekend, but I'll be using it to deliver 20 Warriors wherever I want.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimgold wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 Grimgold wrote:
Early warning override makes even night scythes a risky delivery option.

It also makes them unable to shoot the next turn, and that means they didn't take other things on their suits. You can also play around that by deploying into cover.

Also true, but just the weapons they fired, and a riptide will have more than one weapon. They could cook you with their Plasma on your turn and still have Nova Ion accelerator left over for desert on theirs. Deploying into cover will help, but they can ignore cover on their turn. To last more than a single shooting phase you need to be out of LoS until you charge, or have a good invul save. That's a turn three charge at the soonest, so using prats from night scythes takes half the game to get there, dies horribly if they kill their target in the wrong players turn, and is heavily dependent on terrain.

Cover will help immensely. 2 Plasma shots that hit on 4s rerolling and wounding on 3s, and has to get through a 4+ cover and a 4+ RP isn't going to neuter your unit. And when you have 2 of those, backed up by some Deep Strikers, the Tau are in trouble.

Seriously, people give the Riptide too much credit. I've played against at least 1-2 every time I've played against Tau, and I usually end up ignoring them. If they bring more, then sweet, less points they brought on markerlights and such.

Klowny wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
This really sucks. An army that was once renowned for how tough it's vehicles were never fields a single vehicle. That's sad.

Then again, GW nerfing the ghost ark further, putting open-topped on everything, making vehicles suck in general, and adding D-weapons everywhere that don't care about your AV is just making vehicles more and more worthless.

Sorry to bring this back up, but made me chuckle.

I recently built my monolith as I adore the model and its what got me into necrons in the first place.

Battle 1, 1000 points vs guards, took 2 rounds to explode (he got extremely lucky on rolls)
Battle 2, 1250 points vs admech, stole initiative, blew it up before it did literally anything.

The monolith is so cool looking and I love mine but I've found that it isn't especially useful on the table :(

I wish they would make it work like a drop pod without requiring the formation.

Qlanth wrote:

Klowny wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:
This really sucks. An army that was once renowned for how tough it's vehicles were never fields a single vehicle. That's sad.

Then again, GW nerfing the ghost ark further, putting open-topped on everything, making vehicles suck in general, and adding D-weapons everywhere that don't care about your AV is just making vehicles more and more worthless.

Sorry to bring this back up, but made me chuckle.

I recently built my monolith as I adore the model and its what got me into necrons in the first place.

Battle 1, 1000 points vs guards, took 2 rounds to explode (he got extremely lucky on rolls)
Battle 2, 1250 points vs admech, stole initiative, blew it up before it did literally anything.

The monolith is so cool looking and I love mine but I've found that it isn't especially useful on the table :(

I wish they would make it work like a drop pod without requiring the formation.

Yeah, it used to work that way, but they decided it needed a nerf, for some reason.

It needed an initial nerf from the 3rd edition version (or at least a balancing),
But every additional nerf they've given it since then just drives it further and further to the back of the shelf... almost like someone there has something personal against it

 Anpu-adom wrote:
Infiltrate, yes... but they still could deep strike with an attached Destroyer Lord. But as skoffs said, they want different targets. You can split the Destroyer Lord off after Interceptor Fire, etc, but T5 3++ isn't all that tough (and a lot of points to make it 2+/3++) and not fast enough to get to reliably get to what you want that Warscythe to kill.

Right now I'm thinking 3 units of 8 at 1500 (no Imotehk) and 4 Units of 8 at 1850 (with Imotehk) on top of a basic decurion/Lychstar.

I know it's nitpicking, but the Destroyer Lord is T6. Basicly a Monstrous Creature with Jetpack. He's actually quite good at going solo but his Preferred Enemy begs that he be attached to a unit that can use it.

 krodarklorr wrote:


Cover will help immensely. 2 Plasma shots that hit on 4s rerolling and wounding on 3s, and has to get through a 4+ cover and a 4+ RP isn't going to neuter your unit. And when you have 2 of those, backed up by some Deep Strikers, the Tau are in trouble.

Seriously, people give the Riptide too much credit. I've played against at least 1-2 every time I've played against Tau, and I usually end up ignoring them. If they bring more, then sweet, less points they brought on markerlights and such.

That's stark raving madness, that's two harvest worth of points, which is two turn two assaults and immunity to tau shenanigans, for a unit that might be effective by turn 3, is delicate, and drags along a giant target along with it. My argument is not that riptides are unbeatable, it's that a judicator battalion is the possibly the worst unit that might be capable of doing the job. I've killed riptides for days, and tau isn't even in my top 3 for hardest army to face.

 Grimgold wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:


Cover will help immensely. 2 Plasma shots that hit on 4s rerolling and wounding on 3s, and has to get through a 4+ cover and a 4+ RP isn't going to neuter your unit. And when you have 2 of those, backed up by some Deep Strikers, the Tau are in trouble.

Seriously, people give the Riptide too much credit. I've played against at least 1-2 every time I've played against Tau, and I usually end up ignoring them. If they bring more, then sweet, less points they brought on markerlights and such.

That's stark raving madness, that's two harvest worth of points, which is two turn two assaults and immunity to tau shenanigans, for a unit that might be effective by turn 3, is delicate, and drags along a giant target along with it. My argument is not that riptides are unbeatable, it's that a judicator battalion is the possibly the worst unit that might be capable of doing the job. I've killed riptides for days, and tau isn't even in my top 3 for hardest army to face.

Oh, well then I guess just bring Harvests. I personally am looking forward to bringing 20x praetorians. They're a lot more killy than Wraiths.

... People bring Wraiths because they think they're killy?
(did I miss a memo somewhere?)

No, wraiths are fair to middling at best on the offense side, it's their speed and toughness that make them star players. They are probably the finest tar pit unit in the game, and two of them will give tau fits, especially if they are silly enough to be running riptides in units. You can't get away from them, you can't kill them easily, and they are perfectly happy tying up an opponents best units for the rest of the game.

As for whats killy, outside of the rare 2+ save, D-Cult will take the prats lunch money in terms of effectiveness. Better range, more attacks, pop out shooting, same strength, more wounds, and the only thing they have to drag with them is a 3 wound toughness 6 IC who shreds in CC with a war scythe. They can also bring las cannon equivalents, which combines well with EP to pop the occasional unit we don't want to wait on glancing to death.

Yeah, Harvest Wraiths and Scarabs are perfect for catch and hold tarpitting, which is why I'm usually confused when people push for them in offensive roles.
But if 2+ saves are giving you problems, of the three infantry based formations the Decurion has to choose from, the Praetorians are definitely the ones to look at for killiness.

Really, the three formations all work so well in conjunction with each other, it's a shame they're so cost prohibative, making it difficult to (effectively) take all three of them at once.