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Okay, so I'm currently making a DIY Chapter, and I was wondering if it would be plausible for a Chapter to rediscover a world that was once a major Void Ship producer (but is no longer capable of entering space and is semi-primitive), and then (after liberating it from some Orks) take a few of the Void Ships (like, say a Battleship) for their own Fleet before reporting it to the Mechanicum.

 dusara217 wrote:
Okay, so I'm currently making a DIY Chapter, and I was wondering if it would be plausible for a Chapter to rediscover a world that was once a major Void Ship producer (but is no longer capable of entering space and is semi-primitive), and then (after liberating it from some Orks) take a few of the Void Ships (like, say a Battleship) for their own Fleet before reporting it to the Mechanicum.

The Battleship is stranded there? Or do you think it is produced? I would personally go for the STC-solution, basically have they discover a template and they can as such use it to build ships, and you can basically select how cooperative AdMech should be from veryco-operative to totally against it, but that's me and maybe not what you are looking for.

Depends on how in line with the Admech your guys are. I can see it working either way. Or if you want them really in line, they can report it immediately and the forge world can gift its first 2 or 4 or whatever ships to their saviors. That's not unheard of.

Course you do have the logistical problem of crewing these things.

You could have them salvage ships from a spacehulk or if they recovered artifacts from it the admech would pay for them depending on what they got

Very few Chapters could properly explain why they need a battleship in the first place. A space-bound crusader Chapter like the Black Templars can get away with it, for example - they're extremely loyal and often get into space battles with enemies of mankind. Some average joes not so much if their combat doctrine works perfectly well with the battle barges and smaller ships they already have. People will start asking what they'll do with all that firepower... Start their own mini-empire maybe?

But the AdMech would probably offer a deal for a recovered battlehip, like a straight trade for an additional battle barge or several smaller ships. Maybe also priority on new ships from the now-liberated shipyard, or additional tanks from the closest Forge World.

i wouldnt entruist an unknown spaceship of questionable origin to trust a large portion of the chapters life on.

Its more plausible that they give it to the admech for them for research, which will put them in high favors so they get the better stuff/ and other goodies in exchange.
I dont see them using ships that are non Spacemarine. Codex Astartes surely has a line about that, and also the limits they shall have. SM are strike units for rapid assault. Not battle of the line units, like the imperial navy. Astartes ships are fast and more powerfull for their smaller size compared to regular IN ships. So regular ships couldnt keep up with their pace.

generally speaking the best way to explain it would be to have them capture a rebel battleship in a boarding action and decide they're keeping it. there is IIRC some precident for that

Space Marines, and the Imperium in general, often keep vessels that the chapter captures in space battles.

Most Space Marine ships are modified Imperial Navy ships, there isn't a specific class of ship that is a Battle Barge or a Strike Cruiser. Thats a descriptor of what it does.

The Space Marines will certainly retrofit the vessel to have Bombardment cannons and Drop Pod launchers, as well as Hanger bays and boarding torpedo tubes.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Space Marines, and the Imperium in general, often keep vessels that the chapter captures in space battles.

Most Space Marine ships are modified Imperial Navy ships, there isn't a specific class of ship that is a Battle Barge or a Strike Cruiser. Thats a descriptor of what it does.

The Space Marines will certainly retrofit the vessel to have Bombardment cannons and Drop Pod launchers, as well as Hanger bays and boarding torpedo tubes.

So, essentially, it is likely that many Chapters already utilize Battleships under name of Battle Barges?

Yes. Although the Ad Mech does make vessels purpose built as Battle Barges, most will be retrofitted ships of varying classifications.

Plus the limitation on Space Marine navel forces is more of an unwritten guideline than actual rules. The written document is very vague regarding what Space Marines can actually be equipped with.

The High Lords of Terra and the AdMech probably don't care what ships a Chapter uses, as long as their power doesn't get suspiciously great. Even planet-based chapters can have extraordinary vessels, such as the Imperial Fist's Phalanx. A Battleship is far from unique.

If a Chapter lost a Battle Barge conquering a planet and captured a Battleship around the same time it makes perfect sense that the AdMech and the High Lords would approve of them keeping the Battleship in lieu of having to build a new Battle Barge.

Space Marine chapters often get the very best gear available, so even if the Battleship was a unique vessel retaining it might be OK'd.

Even if not officially approved, the Imperial bureaucracy moves at a snail's pace. It might take centuries before the AdMech or High Lords figure out that Chapter X acquired and is using a Battleship. Unless the Chapter has offended the AdMech or High Lords in some way, possession is nine tenths of the law; they might just let it go rather than make an issue of it.

I'd suspect that the problem with keeping a Battleship would be maintenance, You'd need AdMech trained technicians, parts and supplies to maintain a nonstandard (for Space Marines) vessel. While there are probably a lot of common parts between ships, there are bound to be some items unique to a particular ship class. Acquiring those parts, supplies and especially trained personnel would likely be the biggest headache.

The next biggest headache would be major repairs, refits and overhauls. The Chapter would need drydock facilities, equipment, materials, etc. for that type of ship. Most Chapters (with the exception of the Ultramarines who control several systems) don't have the in-house facilities and resources for such major work. I rather imagine most Chapters rely on their nearest Imperial Navy yards to perform work like this.

My two cents.

The fluff definitely supports the idea of Space Marine chapters using "prize" vessels they have legitimately captured. Somebody from the AdMech or the Navy might complain that it was "theirs" at some point, but I doubt much will come of it unless the ship is extraordinarily powerful.

"We took it fair and square."

"Give it back!"

"No."

"Well, uh, alright then."

Though perhaps don't expect friendly faces the next time the Space Marines want something from the AdMech though.

In the end, politics is a strange animal in 40K. A Space Marine Chapter could hold a lot of sway in things like this, or very little, depending on how you look at it. If Space Marine chapters need the support of the Admech to continue operating (spare parts, maintenance, new weapons (not just for the ship, but for anything), etc), then it's in their best interests to play nice. If they don't, then it really doesn't do anyone any good to start a small civil war over one spaceship.

The catch is, there really isn't much in the way of concrete answers for either of those questions in the fluff.

So there's no justification for your fluff, but neither is there a refutation. But it's fairly certain somebody definitely will ask questions about it at some point. So figure out what their answer is, and you'll probably be good to go.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
. If Space Marine chapters need the support of the Admech to continue operating (spare parts, maintenance, new weapons (not just for the ship, but for anything), etc), then it's in their best interests to play nice. If they don't, then it really doesn't do anyone any good to start a small civil war over one spaceship.

IIRC, a Space Marine Chapter's techmarines maintain all the Chapter's equipment by themselves without having to run to the AdMech for help on everything. SM Chapters are supposed to be fully autonomous, the only part where the AdMech comes in is in the training of the Techmarines.

 Iron_Captain wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:
. If Space Marine chapters need the support of the Admech to continue operating (spare parts, maintenance, new weapons (not just for the ship, but for anything), etc), then it's in their best interests to play nice. If they don't, then it really doesn't do anyone any good to start a small civil war over one spaceship.

IIRC, a Space Marine Chapter's techmarines maintain all the Chapter's equipment by themselves without having to run to the AdMech for help on everything. SM Chapters are supposed to be fully autonomous, the only part where the AdMech comes in is in the training of the Techmarines.

But they might go running to the AdMech about the incident.

IIRC, a Space Marine Chapter's techmarines maintain all the Chapter's equipment by themselves without having to run to the AdMech for help on everything. SM Chapters are supposed to be fully autonomous, the only part where the AdMech comes in is in the training of the Techmarines.

And the production of vehicles and replacement parts etc ...
You know, you can't have super awesomous ships with forges that produce all the things SM need, and yet they are only regular boarded ships
In Legion the Strike Cruiser was specifically said to be stronger then the two imperial ships (dont remember exactly, just that the SM ship was outclassing them completely, compared to the size).
Also, if they are only ex imperial navy ships all a naval force needs is to keep them from launching boarding operations and they are completely doomed, because they are not stronger. This doesnt add up.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Most Space Marine ships are modified Imperial Navy ships, there isn't a specific class of ship that is a Battle Barge or a Strike Cruiser. Thats a descriptor of what it does.

Where did you read that? I'm curious. In the Battlefleet Gothic Imperium rule section it is only mentioned that Battle barges (the largest and rarest in SM fleet arsenal) may be of other origin then Mars SM Battlebarge - any large capital might do. However, that only applies to battlebarges.
Not to strike cruisers, not to frigates or destroyers either.

What the High Lords don't know won't hurt them.

My original plan was that this Chapter conquered the planet in humanity's name and it had a couple dozen orbiting shipyards and fuckton of old manufactorums on the surface - all of them derilict, of course. My original idea was that the Chapter suffered a catastrophe where they lost a huge portion of their fleet and decided to find a homeworld where they wouldn't have to worry about losing Gene-seed and relics in routine combat, so they pick the world and give most of the ships to the AdMech and keep a few for themselves. They then start restoring the shipyards and manufactorums and ues the local populace to work at them. Would this be plausible or would the fraggin High Lords step in?

 dusara217 wrote:
My original plan was that this Chapter conquered the planet in humanity's name and it had a couple dozen orbiting shipyards and fuckton of old manufactorums on the surface - all of them derilict, of course. My original idea was that the Chapter suffered a catastrophe where they lost a huge portion of their fleet and decided to find a homeworld where they wouldn't have to worry about losing Gene-seed and relics in routine combat, so they pick the world and give most of the ships to the AdMech and keep a few for themselves. They then start restoring the shipyards and manufactorums and ues the local populace to work at them. Would this be plausible or would the fraggin High Lords step in?

The High Lords would likely have no idea unless they rebelled and turned a frak-load of planets against them.

Your plan thus far is sound but boring, I would suggest spice. But that's me.

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
My original plan was that this Chapter conquered the planet in humanity's name and it had a couple dozen orbiting shipyards and fuckton of old manufactorums on the surface - all of them derilict, of course. My original idea was that the Chapter suffered a catastrophe where they lost a huge portion of their fleet and decided to find a homeworld where they wouldn't have to worry about losing Gene-seed and relics in routine combat, so they pick the world and give most of the ships to the AdMech and keep a few for themselves. They then start restoring the shipyards and manufactorums and ues the local populace to work at them. Would this be plausible or would the fraggin High Lords step in?

The High Lords would likely have no idea unless they rebelled and turned a frak-load of planets against them.

Your plan thus far is sound but boring, I would suggest spice. But that's me.

Would capturing every human over the age of 24-terran years, forcing them to go through deadly endurance courses across the planet's barren wasteland, and pick the survivors to be the servitor-vats for gene-seed growing, and the dying and the recently dead are to become servitors working in the manufactorums help?

 lcmiracle wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
My original plan was that this Chapter conquered the planet in humanity's name and it had a couple dozen orbiting shipyards and fuckton of old manufactorums on the surface - all of them derilict, of course. My original idea was that the Chapter suffered a catastrophe where they lost a huge portion of their fleet and decided to find a homeworld where they wouldn't have to worry about losing Gene-seed and relics in routine combat, so they pick the world and give most of the ships to the AdMech and keep a few for themselves. They then start restoring the shipyards and manufactorums and ues the local populace to work at them. Would this be plausible or would the fraggin High Lords step in?

The High Lords would likely have no idea unless they rebelled and turned a frak-load of planets against them.

Your plan thus far is sound but boring, I would suggest spice. But that's me.

Would capturing every human over the age of 24-terran years, forcing them to go through deadly endurance courses across the planet's barren wasteland, and pick the survivors to be the servitor-vats for gene-seed growing, and the dying and the recently dead are to become servitors working in the manufactorums help?

Only if it spanned planet-wide, if not its business as usual, just don't go too cruel at the native crop.

EDIT: Its an inventive enough ideas for a more brutal chapter.

Who is the parent-chapter? That will also determine how the chapter would do stuff like this.

I think acquiring a battleship might cause some tension with the High Lords of Terra/Imperial Navy. That'd be a good hook to start some problems with the imperium. Not necessarily causing them to go renegade, just causing enough of an issue to prevent MarySuedom.

 Keep wrote:

IIRC, a Space Marine Chapter's techmarines maintain all the Chapter's equipment by themselves without having to run to the AdMech for help on everything. SM Chapters are supposed to be fully autonomous, the only part where the AdMech comes in is in the training of the Techmarines.

And the production of vehicles and replacement parts etc ...
You know, you can't have super awesomous ships with forges that produce all the things SM need, and yet they are only regular boarded ships
In Legion the Strike Cruiser was specifically said to be stronger then the two imperial ships (dont remember exactly, just that the SM ship was outclassing them completely, compared to the size).
Also, if they are only ex imperial navy ships all a naval force needs is to keep them from launching boarding operations and they are completely doomed, because they are not stronger. This doesnt add up.

The Strike Cruiser from Legion might have been some relic from the 30. millenium or whatever. In 40k a strikecruiser is a specialised and uparmoured light cruiser. Excelent when it comes to
delivering a company of marines where they can actualy do something valuable (powerarmour and super duper soldier training are of little worth in a spacebattle) and fighting smallish battles but not suitable to properly challenge imperial navy cruisers. At least that's what the BFG Spacemarine suplement tells us.

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
My original plan was that this Chapter conquered the planet in humanity's name and it had a couple dozen orbiting shipyards and fuckton of old manufactorums on the surface - all of them derilict, of course. My original idea was that the Chapter suffered a catastrophe where they lost a huge portion of their fleet and decided to find a homeworld where they wouldn't have to worry about losing Gene-seed and relics in routine combat, so they pick the world and give most of the ships to the AdMech and keep a few for themselves. They then start restoring the shipyards and manufactorums and ues the local populace to work at them. Would this be plausible or would the fraggin High Lords step in?

The High Lords would likely have no idea unless they rebelled and turned a frak-load of planets against them.

Your plan thus far is sound but boring, I would suggest spice. But that's me.

Would capturing every human over the age of 24-terran years, forcing them to go through deadly endurance courses across the planet's barren wasteland, and pick the survivors to be the servitor-vats for gene-seed growing, and the dying and the recently dead are to become servitors working in the manufactorums help?

Only if it spanned planet-wide, if not its business as usual, just don't go too cruel at the native crop.

EDIT: Its an inventive enough ideas for a more brutal chapter.

Who is the parent-chapter? That will also determine how the chapter would do stuff like this.

Parent Chapter is Blood Angels. The Chapter has also stolen an entire ship full of Terminator Armour from the Mechanicum - all hands lost, of course; dead men tell no tales.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Then stole the Terminator Armour like a year after their founding, so it was couple of centuries ago

 dusara217 wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:

 Beaviz81 wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
My original plan was that this Chapter conquered the planet in humanity's name and it had a couple dozen orbiting shipyards and fuckton of old manufactorums on the surface - all of them derilict, of course. My original idea was that the Chapter suffered a catastrophe where they lost a huge portion of their fleet and decided to find a homeworld where they wouldn't have to worry about losing Gene-seed and relics in routine combat, so they pick the world and give most of the ships to the AdMech and keep a few for themselves. They then start restoring the shipyards and manufactorums and ues the local populace to work at them. Would this be plausible or would the fraggin High Lords step in?

The High Lords would likely have no idea unless they rebelled and turned a frak-load of planets against them.

Your plan thus far is sound but boring, I would suggest spice. But that's me.

Would capturing every human over the age of 24-terran years, forcing them to go through deadly endurance courses across the planet's barren wasteland, and pick the survivors to be the servitor-vats for gene-seed growing, and the dying and the recently dead are to become servitors working in the manufactorums help?

Only if it spanned planet-wide, if not its business as usual, just don't go too cruel at the native crop.

EDIT: Its an inventive enough ideas for a more brutal chapter.

Who is the parent-chapter? That will also determine how the chapter would do stuff like this.

Parent Chapter is Blood Angels. The Chapter has also stolen an entire ship full of Terminator Armour from the Mechanicum - all hands lost, of course; dead men tell no tales.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Then stole the Terminator Armour like a year after their founding, so it was couple of centuries ago

sounds like you've got the makings of a slowly turning renegade chapter here. as it is they better hope the chapter those suits where intended for doesn't find out what happened somehow, that'd proably spark a nasty blood feud.

The suits came from a recently rediscovered Forge World that was sending them to another Forfge World for inspection. They only had the possibility to piss off the Mechanicum. Actually, that was part of the reason why I wanted them to only keep a few of the ships they found and give the rest to the Mechanicum; just in case their crime is discovered, they've already got allies in the Ordo Xenos and Mechanicum. The Inquisition allies because they're constantly supporting exploratory fleets and sending the tech from unknown Xenos to the Inquisitors.

Although, the Blood Feud idea is a good idea, I might put that into it

 dusara217 wrote:
The suits came from a recently rediscovered Forge World that was sending them to another Forfge World for inspection. They only had the possibility to piss off the Mechanicum. Actually, that was part of the reason why I wanted them to only keep a few of the ships they found and give the rest to the Mechanicum; just in case their crime is discovered, they've already got allies in the Ordo Xenos and Mechanicum. The Inquisition allies because they're constantly supporting exploratory fleets and sending the tech from unknown Xenos to the Inquisitors.

Although, the Blood Feud idea is a good idea, I might put that into it

makes more sense that way, I can't imagine Forge worlds sending their stuff to other worlds for inspection....... that strikes me as the type of thing they'd be too prideful to ever agree to. as I understand it, individual forge worlds can be pretty protective of their own fiefs. and this allows your chapter to develop an enemy. not all chapters get along, and an arguement over "who those terminators suits where really intended for" makes a pretty good one.

 Keep wrote:

IIRC, a Space Marine Chapter's techmarines maintain all the Chapter's equipment by themselves without having to run to the AdMech for help on everything. SM Chapters are supposed to be fully autonomous, the only part where the AdMech comes in is in the training of the Techmarines.

And the production of vehicles and replacement parts etc ...
You know, you can't have super awesomous ships with forges that produce all the things SM need, and yet they are only regular boarded ships
In Legion the Strike Cruiser was specifically said to be stronger then the two imperial ships (dont remember exactly, just that the SM ship was outclassing them completely, compared to the size).
Also, if they are only ex imperial navy ships all a naval force needs is to keep them from launching boarding operations and they are completely doomed, because they are not stronger. This doesnt add up.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Most Space Marine ships are modified Imperial Navy ships, there isn't a specific class of ship that is a Battle Barge or a Strike Cruiser. Thats a descriptor of what it does.

Where did you read that? I'm curious. In the Battlefleet Gothic Imperium rule section it is only mentioned that Battle barges (the largest and rarest in SM fleet arsenal) may be of other origin then Mars SM Battlebarge - any large capital might do. However, that only applies to battlebarges.
Not to strike cruisers, not to frigates or destroyers either.

The most up to date rules for Space Marines mentions this in the Strike Cruiser section.

https://docs.google.com/folderview?id=0Bw_dULEfC3rbYzUyNjQzZTAtMDZiMS00ZjRlLWJjNzMtYTE5YmNjZjdjODQ1&usp=drive_web&num=50&sort=name&layout=list

BrianDavion wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
The suits came from a recently rediscovered Forge World that was sending them to another Forfge World for inspection. They only had the possibility to piss off the Mechanicum. Actually, that was part of the reason why I wanted them to only keep a few of the ships they found and give the rest to the Mechanicum; just in case their crime is discovered, they've already got allies in the Ordo Xenos and Mechanicum. The Inquisition allies because they're constantly supporting exploratory fleets and sending the tech from unknown Xenos to the Inquisitors.

Although, the Blood Feud idea is a good idea, I might put that into it

makes more sense that way, I can't imagine Forge worlds sending their stuff to other worlds for inspection....... that strikes me as the type of thing they'd be too prideful to ever agree to. as I understand it, individual forge worlds can be pretty protective of their own fiefs. and this allows your chapter to develop an enemy. not all chapters get along, and an arguement over "who those terminators suits where really intended for" makes a pretty good one.

A lot of times newly discovered Forge Worlds are using outdated technology that has been replaced by more "modern" variants. I read that somewhere, but the whole blood feud sounds like a great basis for a few short stories and novellas. Been a while since I've written anything longer than a few pages, that would be fun to write.

Yes imperial navy and inquisitors are often worried about the balance of power... If a chapter has a very strong navy, this would cause problems.

I doubt that a chapter would be able to use a forgeworld/shipyard without the mechanicum, and the chances that the liberated world with all the old relics and the strategic value it has wouldn't have caused the mechanicum /adeptus administratum to claim it would be very low.

Your chapter might be a renegade chapter, but they can turn stuff around. Just have them do a few big damn heroics in the nick of time and they can keep their unique battleship(s). But then again this might not be what you are looking for.

I must be noted as neither a fan nor a detractor of this chapter, though I would read the fanfiction.