Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Appears Trump is a big Kennedy supporter. He's a Republican like I'm a Greens Party member
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/09/24/donald-trump-ted-kennedy-donor.html

Anybody else looking forward to the political circus tonight that will be after the Pope's address to Congress? It will be interesting to see how they will choose their words to state they disagree with the Pope, while still showing full respect for him, and without looking like total hypocrites (saying the Pope needs to stay out of politics, while they're bringing religion into politics regularly already).

I heard on the radio that there is already one congressman who is boycotting the event.

Depends on what the pope says...

He's a South American Latino liberal who very much praises the ideals of socialism.

At the same time, he's the freaking pope... so, expect some traditional marriage and anti-abortion fireworks.

Anyone catch the Colbert Late Show interview with Trump. I thought Colbert did an excellent job of letting Trump paint himself as an idiot. And he didn't play Trumps game at all. Quite enjoyed it.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Anybody else looking forward to the political circus tonight that will be after the Pope's address to Congress? It will be interesting to see how they will choose their words to state they disagree with the Pope, while still showing full respect for him, and without looking like total hypocrites (saying the Pope needs to stay out of politics, while they're bringing religion into politics regularly already).

I heard on the radio that there is already one congressman who is boycotting the event.

Most Christian politicians in the US can outright criticize him and not take flak. He is the Pope of the the Catholic faith and as such isn't considered Christain by many Americans. Or at least in my experience Catholics are not considered Christian by many people of the various other denominations much like the Mormons. So I expect some strong go back to the Vatican were you belong rhetoric if the Pope says anything that isn't liked.

I imagine the GOP candidates will give their opinion on the matter too.

So... did anyone watch South Park episode last night on Trump?

EDIT: Also, I wished the Pope would just say "All Lives Matters"... and walks away...

 whembly wrote:

He's a South American Latino liberal who very much praises the ideals of socialism.

You don't really know much about the Pope or Catholicism, you do?

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 whembly wrote:

He's a South American Latino liberal who very much praises the ideals of socialism.

You don't really know much about the Pope or Catholicism, you do?

Que?

He's Argentinian... right? Ain't dat in South America?

As to Catholicism... what makes you say that?

<--- sends his kids to Catholic schools and has regular meetings with the Deacons and Fathers...

After he addresses Congress, instead of dining with the rich and powerful, he plans to go eat with the poor. The Pope is a living parable

 whembly wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 whembly wrote:

He's a South American Latino liberal who very much praises the ideals of socialism.

You don't really know much about the Pope or Catholicism, you do?

Que?

He's Argentinian... right? Ain't dat in South America?

As to Catholicism... what makes you say that?

<--- sends his kids to Catholic schools and has regular meetings with the Deacons and Fathers...

Because despite the American media's best attempt to convince you otherwise, you don't realize that Pope Francis is not some out-of-left-field liberal Pope. He's towing the company line pretty hardcore, and your comments seem to say pretty clearly that you don't know much about Catholic social teaching; nothing Pope Francis has said is revolutionary in the Catholic Church.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 whembly wrote:

He's a South American Latino liberal who very much praises the ideals of socialism.

You don't really know much about the Pope or Catholicism, you do?

Que?

He's Argentinian... right? Ain't dat in South America?

As to Catholicism... what makes you say that?

<--- sends his kids to Catholic schools and has regular meetings with the Deacons and Fathers...

Because despite the American media's best attempt to convince you otherwise, you don't realize that Pope Francis is not some out-of-left-field liberal Pope. He's towing the company line pretty hardcore, and your comments seem to say pretty clearly that you don't know much about Catholic social teaching; nothing Pope Francis has said is revolutionary in the Catholic Church.

Um... I don't recall John Paul or Benedict decrying the faults of capitalism and all that...

If they did... I missed it during my hedonistic period.

And for what it's worth... I though all Popes were generally lefties.

 whembly wrote:
Um... I don't recall John Paul or Benedict decrying the faults of capitalism and all that...

If they did... I missed it during my hedonistic period.

A good place to start with understanding Pope Francis is with his encyclical from May of this year. The Church has always condemned greed, even that inherent in a capitalistic economy. In fact, John Paul II wrote extensively about unchecked capitalism in his 1987 encyclical Sollicitudo Rei Socialis. The most telling line from that encyclical is this:

The tension between East and West is an opposition... between two concepts of the development of individuals and peoples, both concepts being imperfect and in need of radical correction... This is one of the reasons why the Church’s social doctrine adopts a critical attitude towards both liberal capitalism and Marxist collectivism.

An economic system is good only to the extent that it applies the principles of justice taught by the Church. Capitalism, as currently practiced in the Western world, does not do that (neither does any form of collectivism for that matter).

John Paul II wrote even about the issue in his 1991 encyclical Centesimus Annus, which is also a pretty good read.

And for what it's worth... I though all Popes were generally lefties.

Exactly, which is I said this:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
You don't really know much about the Pope or Catholicism, you do?

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Um... I don't recall John Paul or Benedict decrying the faults of capitalism and all that...

If they did... I missed it during my hedonistic period.

A good place to start with understanding Pope Francis is with his encyclical from May of this year. The Church has always condemned greed, even that inherent in a capitalistic economy. In fact, John Paul II wrote extensively about unchecked capitalism in his 1987 encyclical Sollicitudo Rei Socialis. The most telling line from that encyclical is this:

The tension between East and West is an opposition... between two concepts of the development of individuals and peoples, both concepts being imperfect and in need of radical correction... This is one of the reasons why the Church’s social doctrine adopts a critical attitude towards both liberal capitalism and Marxist collectivism.

An economic system is good only to the extent that it applies the principles of justice taught by the Church. Capitalism, as currently practiced in the Western world, does not do that (neither does any form of collectivism for that matter).

John Paul II wrote even about the issue in his 1991 encyclical Centesimus Annus, which is also a pretty good read.

Good info...

IT's just that it's pie-in-the-sky wishlisting of how the system ought to be... which discounts human nature.

Ya know... the concepts of sin.

And for what it's worth... I though all Popes were generally lefties.

Exactly, which is I said this:

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
You don't really know much about the Pope or Catholicism, you do?

Oh step off that scooty.

I like the Popes. They're, obviously, dogmatic to the traditions of Catholicism... as such, those views can be diametrically opposed to ideals of Western nations.

Case in point: Do you think we'd ever get to the point of abolishing both the Death Penalty and Abortions?

The practical matter is that unchecked capitalism and socialism is neigh impossible. The deliberations has always been, how far do you want that pendulum to shift (ie, how close to the capitalist/socialist model do you advocate). However, I will argue that the Church (or any pious organizations for that matter), advocating for social policies is a good thing.

We don't need an echo chamber... we should be challenged to approach the issues of our days with good intentions.

 whembly wrote:
Oh step off that scooty.

You're making hilariously inaccurate statements about something you don't know enough about and I called you out on it. Don't get pissy with me because you were wrong.

I like the Popes. They're, obviously, dogmatic to the traditions of Catholicism... as such, those views can be diametrically opposed to ideals of Western nations.

Case in point: Do you think we'd ever get to the point of abolishing both the Death Penalty and Abortions?

The practical matter is that unchecked capitalism and socialism is neigh impossible. The deliberations has always been, how far do you want that pendulum to shift (ie, how close to the capitalist/socialist model do you advocate). However, I will argue that the Church (or any pious organizations for that matter), advocating for social policies is a good thing.

We don't need an echo chamber... we should be challenged to approach the issues of our days with good intentions.

I'm not going to argue with you over the virtues of the Church and whether or not they're good for America (besides, the Church's social doctrines stand above the the economic systems of man), but just because you don't agree with them doesn't make them "diametrically opposed" to the ideals of Western nations (or make them "socialist" or "liberal" or whatever term you want to use for gak you don't like). Further, Pope Francis condemns the ethics of modern capitalism and consumerism: "The culture of prosperity deadens us; we are thrilled if the market offers us something new to purchase. In the meantime all those lives stunted for lack of opportunity seem a mere spectacle; they fail to move us." There are victims of free-market capitalism and the Church both calls on the faithful to help them and the leaders of nations to right the course. The Church took the same stance against communism during the Cold War and will again take a similar stance when the next economic institution begins to victimize the less fortunate.

Anyways, sorry I wasted your time... Please return to your regularly scheduled program of the next HRC scandal.

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 whembly wrote:
Oh step off that scooty.

You're making hilariously inaccurate statements about something you don't know enough about and I called you out on it. Don't get pissy with me because you were wrong.

I like the Popes. They're, obviously, dogmatic to the traditions of Catholicism... as such, those views can be diametrically opposed to ideals of Western nations.

Case in point: Do you think we'd ever get to the point of abolishing both the Death Penalty and Abortions?

The practical matter is that unchecked capitalism and socialism is neigh impossible. The deliberations has always been, how far do you want that pendulum to shift (ie, how close to the capitalist/socialist model do you advocate). However, I will argue that the Church (or any pious organizations for that matter), advocating for social policies is a good thing.

We don't need an echo chamber... we should be challenged to approach the issues of our days with good intentions.

I'm not going to argue with you over the virtues of the Church and whether or not they're good for America (besides, the Church's social doctrines stand above the the economic systems of man), but just because you don't agree with them doesn't make them "diametrically opposed" to the ideals of Western nations (or make them "socialist" or "liberal" or whatever term you want to use for gak you don't like). Further, Pope Francis condemns the ethics of modern capitalism and consumerism: "The culture of prosperity deadens us; we are thrilled if the market offers us something new to purchase. In the meantime all those lives stunted for lack of opportunity seem a mere spectacle; they fail to move us." There are victims of free-market capitalism and the Church both calls on the faithful to help them and the leaders of nations to right the course. The Church took the same stance against communism during the Cold War and will again take a similar stance when the next economic institution begins to victimize the less fortunate.

Anyways, sorry I wasted your time...

Hey... I'll leave that between you and Manchu.

Please return to your regularly scheduled program of the next HRC scandal.

Which ones?

 whembly wrote:
Hey... I'll leave that between you and Manchu.

Haha, I think you'll get a little bit of a different argument from Manchu than you will from me!

Which ones?

I dunno... pick one I guess. Maybe the cybersex emails between her and Bill?

Heh...

Not the current scandal, but:

Poll: Sanders leads Clinton by 16 points in NH http://t.co/xHvwSgzJo9 pic.twitter.com/ofQhLhhZsI

— JWF (@JammieWF) September 24, 2015

The Pope's visit isn't really about how much power and influence he directly commands. The handful of Catholic congress critters and the Catholic voters aren't going to base any decisions directly on what the Pope commands. The Pope's influence is more that he's a major world leader, and one that commands a lot of interest and respect. And he happens to use that platform quite skillfully to argue for positions he believes are important.

So you won't see anyone, Catholics or otherwise, saying 'well the Pope said it so now I have to vote like this'... but it's more that the Pope will raise issues and it will lead to them being discussed a little more than they might have been, and maybe even discussed in a different light. It won't change the world, but most things don't.

I'm disappointed that the Pope's visit to Congress passed without incident. I was expecting at least one Republican to do something crazy, like say, citizen's arrest or vomit all over him or something

The FBI is investigating how and why classified information ended up on Clinton’s server. The probe probably will take at least several more months, according to the person, who described the matter on condition of anonymity because the investigation is continuing and deals with sensitive information.

We want to know why she might have had information she shouldn't have had on there, but keep my name out of this because I shouldn't be talking about it.

Speaker John A. Boehner finally realizing it is time to move on.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/09/25/boehner-to-step-down-next-month/?tid=sm_tw

House Speaker a John A. Boehner told members of his party in a Friday morning meeting in the Capitol that he will step down at the end of October.

Huh, well he wasn't insane, I'll give him that. And he certainly tired to keep some of the crazy in line.

I wonder who the next one will be.

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I'm disappointed that the Pope's visit to Congress passed without incident. I was expecting at least one Republican to do something crazy, like say, citizen's arrest or vomit all over him or something

I thought Juilian Assange said the Pope was going to tell the world aliens exist?

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I'm disappointed that the Pope's visit to Congress passed without incident. I was expecting at least one Republican to do something crazy, like say, citizen's arrest or vomit all over him or something

I an honestly amazed that almost everybody seem to have shown enough intelligence and self control to keep their mouths shut. And that really is the best strategy: let the Pope say his thing, and move on. Particular when this Pope's approval rating is at least 3-4 times that of Congress's.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CptJake wrote:
Speaker John A. Boehner finally realizing it is time to move on.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/09/25/boehner-to-step-down-next-month/?tid=sm_tw

House Speaker a John A. Boehner told members of his party in a Friday morning meeting in the Capitol that he will step down at the end of October.

I'm not surprised. There's a good chance we may have another government shutdown this October 1, and if so, it looks like it'll be the House's fault, not the Senate's. I read that the House Republicans are even more divided than the Senate over the upcoming continuing resolution (because Congress can't ever seem to do it's one job: pass a damned budget). And Boehner is probably going to take the heat for it, despite his best attempts otherwise.

At least I get paid tomorrow, so my bills for the month will be covered if the shutdown lasts more than a week or two.

My guess is this means Boehner is going to allow a vote and with the help of the Dems will pass a funding bill. Of course, this means he knows he will be challenged by irate members in his party so he announced his stepping down to cut it off right away. Looks to be the responsible move on his part. I think he could have been a really good speaker and gotten a lot done had he not had to babysit the extreme fringe of his caucus constantly.

Edit: after having read the story linked above, I suppose it isn't much of a guess...so yeah, read the story first Gordo

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Huh, well he wasn't insane, I'll give him that. And he certainly tired to keep some of the crazy in line.

I wonder who the next one will be.

It's a sorry state of affairs if the best thing you can say about the speaker is that he's not insane!

American politics can't be that bad?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Gordon Shumway wrote:
My guess is this means Boehner is going to allow a vote and with the help of the Dems will pass a funding bill. Of course, this means he knows he will be challenged by irate members in his party so he announced his stepping down to cut it off right away. Looks to be the responsible move on his part. I think he could have been a really good speaker and gotten a lot done had he not had to babysit the extreme fringe of his caucus constantly.

Edit: after having read the story linked above, I suppose it isn't much of a guess...so yeah, read the story first Gordo

Are you claiming credit for something somebody else said?

I do that a lot myself

Well, I disagreed with him politically on almost everything. That's not a bad thing, just not a good thing for me, personally.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I'm disappointed that the Pope's visit to Congress passed without incident. I was expecting at least one Republican to do something crazy, like say, citizen's arrest or vomit all over him or something

I an honestly amazed that almost everybody seem to have shown enough intelligence and self control to keep their mouths shut. And that really is the best strategy: let the Pope say his thing, and move on. Particular when this Pope's approval rating is at least 3-4 times that of Congress's.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 CptJake wrote:
Speaker John A. Boehner finally realizing it is time to move on.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/09/25/boehner-to-step-down-next-month/?tid=sm_tw

House Speaker a John A. Boehner told members of his party in a Friday morning meeting in the Capitol that he will step down at the end of October.

I'm not surprised. There's a good chance we may have another government shutdown this October 1, and if so, it looks like it'll be the House's fault, not the Senate's. I read that the House Republicans are even more divided than the Senate over the upcoming continuing resolution (because Congress can't ever seem to do it's one job: pass a damned budget). And Boehner is probably going to take the heat for it, despite his best attempts otherwise.

At least I get paid tomorrow, so my bills for the month will be covered if the shutdown lasts more than a week or two.

Friend of mine will be visiting the USA around that time.

We're not going to be seeing a repeat of the museums, historic sites, and national parks shut down again, are we?

Be a lot of angry tourists if that's the case.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BrotherGecko wrote:

 Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:
I'm disappointed that the Pope's visit to Congress passed without incident. I was expecting at least one Republican to do something crazy, like say, citizen's arrest or vomit all over him or something

I thought Juilian Assange said the Pope was going to tell the world aliens exist?

That's David Icke's job


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
Well, I disagreed with him politically on almost everything. That's not a bad thing, just not a good thing for me, personally.

And the fact that his name always made me laugh like a juvenile

Edit: eh, nevermind, pointless exposition at this time

Edit of my edit: I'm personally not convinced that Boehner stepping down somehow magically means a clean CR will pass the House. There's something else going on.

I think this will hurt the GOP in the long run. He is good enough of a politician who managed to minimize some of the damage the hardcore members were willing to dish out, but with him gone the nation will see what it is like to have the "new" GOP govern and I don't think they will like it.