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I know that demonically possessed swords, daemon-infested predators, etc are thrown into an incinerator, but what of more ordinary but extremely valuable hardware like ships, terminator suits and land raiders? My thought would have been "no they wouldn't touch it with a barge pole," it would be tainted, and would also go into the nearest incinerator (or landfill site), but in recent times I've read things which dispute that view:

-In the space wolves novels I believe the cruiser Ragnar is aboard was a prize of war reclaimed from chaos forces.
-In the space marine game you can pick up and use dead chaos marine weaponry (I know that mechanics in a computer game can't be taken as canon, but nonetheless it surprised me)

So what do you reckon? Scenario: The Ultramarines get the drop on a bunch of chaso termies while they'ne napping, and kill them. They're left wondering what to do with an intact and very hard to produce land raider and 5x suits of TDA.

Does it get sterilised with holy water and put back in service or purged with fire?

Also any answers from Relictors will be discounted

I think anything other than leaving it and salting the earth would have to be calling the Ordo Malleus or possible the AdMech. Unless the chapter is pretty radical, in which case go nuts!

Isn't there a story where one of Sicarius' squads uses a chaos rhino/razorback to scout the enemy?

Maybe the Land Raider. I wouldn't recommend having suits from Chaos Termies against their naked bodies.

 Orblivion wrote:
Isn't there a story where one of Sicarius' squads uses a chaos rhino/razorback to scout the enemy?

The Chapter's Due.
Yes. Squad Vorolanus uses a chaos Rhino to track down Kaarja Salombar.

It very much depends on the nature of the weapon and how corrupt it is.

There is a good deal of re-consecrating and re-purposing of Chaos or daemon weapons in the lore. Both Draigo and Logan Grimnar's weapons incorporate shards from fallen big players of Chaos (a Bloodthirster for Draigo and a Khorne Lord for Grimnar). So on the one hand, yes, it is possible to see them reworking the trophies of fallen enemies. However, both of those cases also involved re-forging and re-consecrating the weapons, they were not just picked up and used as-is.

So as far as your scenario goes, I think it is possible, but they would not just put it on right away. They'd bring out Techmarines and possibly Librarians to determine how corrupt those pieces were and from there either work to purify and re-consecrate, or fully eliminate.

The space wolves 13th company use chaos gear salvaged from the eye of terror

If it's deemed untainted by the Tech Priest/Marine, then yes.

 dekinrie wrote:
The space wolves 13th company use chaos gear salvaged from the eye of terror

I think that is a bit different due them actually being in the Eye, what with its effects and everything. What more could holding a chaos weapon do to you when you are actually in the realm of Chaos that isn't already being done to you.

Here's an old article from the Index Astartes about the Chaos Vehicles and how they are sometimes approached.

http://redelf.narod.ru/w40k/ia/w40k_ia_bos.html

In most cases if it is armour or weapons I guess it would simply be destroyed. But more important, harder to come by equipment would possibly be salvaged and reconsecrated back into the Imperium. Whether or not it could be achieved would depend on just how corrupt the object had become.

There's also the matter of how "chaos" the wargear is. Fresh renegades will still have their Imperial gear, and many CSM warbands scavenge spare parts from loyalists. Something that's been in CSM hands since the Heresy is right out of the question, but a vehicle, armor or gun they stole last year or the year before should be safe to take back. The longer they've had it the more precautions and rituals will be needed.

In 'Gods of Mars' one of the Techpriests refers to a forge world called Incaladion (pg194) where 'Spoils of battle against the Archenemy' are deposited and processed. The machines are discribed as being full of scrap code and 'contaminated with warp energies', whether that is the same thing as being a Chaos vehicle though... I mean I'm guessing they weren't repurposing Forge Fiends.

They developed a way to free machines from corruption (possibly by killing their machine spirit and putting a new one in. They were definitely on the edge of acceptability though.

No sane person should be willing to get inside anything touched by Chaos, especially not if it was corrupted by Slaanesh or Nurgle.

 curran12 wrote:
It very much depends on the nature of the weapon and how corrupt it is.

There is a good deal of re-consecrating and re-purposing of Chaos or daemon weapons in the lore. Both Draigo and Logan Grimnar's weapons incorporate shards from fallen big players of Chaos (a Bloodthirster for Draigo and a Khorne Lord for Grimnar). So on the one hand, yes, it is possible to see them reworking the trophies of fallen enemies. However, both of those cases also involved re-forging and re-consecrating the weapons, they were not just picked up and used as-is.

So as far as your scenario goes, I think it is possible, but they would not just put it on right away. They'd bring out Techmarines and possibly Librarians to determine how corrupt those pieces were and from there either work to purify and re-consecrate, or fully eliminate.

This^


Plus Papa Smurf . His Fists of Ultramar are re-purposed too.

 curran12 wrote:
It very much depends on the nature of the weapon and how corrupt it is.

There is a good deal of re-consecrating and re-purposing of Chaos or daemon weapons in the lore. Both Draigo and Logan Grimnar's weapons incorporate shards from fallen big players of Chaos (a Bloodthirster for Draigo and a Khorne Lord for Grimnar). So on the one hand, yes, it is possible to see them reworking the trophies of fallen enemies. However, both of those cases also involved re-forging and re-consecrating the weapons, they were not just picked up and used as-is.

So as far as your scenario goes, I think it is possible, but they would not just put it on right away. They'd bring out Techmarines and possibly Librarians to determine how corrupt those pieces were and from there either work to purify and re-consecrate, or fully eliminate.

Interesting, I did not know that about Draigo and Grimnar's weapons.

So with the basic gear, plenty of chanting and covering them in holy oils etc, and then possible reuse. Except of course with Nurgle gear. I'm not sure any cleaning fluid known to man would get rid of that stench...


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 Pilau Rice wrote:
Here's an old article from the Index Astartes about the Chaos Vehicles and how they are sometimes approached.
http://redelf.narod.ru/w40k/ia/w40k_ia_bos.html

That article is a good read, thanks. From what I've gathered from it: steer clear from disabled chaos land raiders!

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:
If it's deemed untainted by the Tech Priest/Marine, then yes.

Agreed. Some Chaos stuff (notably those owned by Legions like Night Lords who doesn't even like daemons that much and to a certain degree, Iron Warriors) I think they would be willing to use in dire situations or even consider salvaging.

With a thousand Chapters, I think you should expect some variance in practice.

CF. the Relictors, maybe?

Da Butcha wrote:
With a thousand Chapters, I think you should expect some variance in practice.

CF. the Relictors, maybe?

Yeah, the Relictors -reading about their background that was what got me thinking about this

Actually, there are whole orders of Adepta Sororitas dedicated to reconsecrating artifacts.

It happens. As 1hadhq said, the Gauntlets of Ultramar were taken from a Chaos Champion. Anything claimed from Chaos foes would likely undergo very close scrutiny by the Chapter's Techmarines, Chaplains, and possibly Librarians, and subjected to all kinds of Warp-cleansing.

 thegreatchimp wrote:
I know that demonically possessed swords, daemon-infested predators, etc are thrown into an incinerator, but what of more ordinary but extremely valuable hardware like ships, terminator suits and land raiders? My thought would have been "no they wouldn't touch it with a barge pole," it would be tainted, and would also go into the nearest incinerator (or landfill site), but in recent times I've read things which dispute that view:

-In the space wolves novels I believe the cruiser Ragnar is aboard was a prize of war reclaimed from chaos forces.
-In the space marine game you can pick up and use dead chaos marine weaponry (I know that mechanics in a computer game can't be taken as canon, but nonetheless it surprised me)

So what do you reckon? Scenario: The Ultramarines get the drop on a bunch of chaso termies while they'ne napping, and kill them. They're left wondering what to do with an intact and very hard to produce land raider and 5x suits of TDA.

Does it get sterilised with holy water and put back in service or purged with fire?

Also any answers from Relictors will be discounted

I imagine they still get thrown out. They would think the "Machine spirit" would also be corrupted.

There may be situations in which out of pure desperation a SM might use stolen gear, but boy would they be in trouble when they get home lol.

The Ultramarines Chapter Master himself wields weapons reclaimed from chaos so I think it's baseless to say NEVEREVEREVER. I think it really would vary based on the individual commander on the ground, as well as the specifics of the equipment, if it had been manufactured by or for the traitor legions it would likely be treated as beyond redemption, if it had been manufactured for a loyal legion or chapter before finding it's way into chaos hands then it might be viewed as worthy of purification and return to the Emperor's service.

Imperial Armour Volume Two Second Edition includes a form of vehicle upgrade called Legacies of Glory, one of them is specifically covers an distrusted vehicle of unknown provenance.

On a general basis - no. But there are always exceptions to the rule, and the Imperium is nothing if not power hungry.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Actually, there are whole orders of Adepta Sororitas dedicated to reconsecrating artifacts.

Which would imply that it is actually quite common for Chaos artefacts to be repurposed.

So, yes, Chaos wargear CAN be reused, so long as it has gone through the proper cleansing rituals.

I doubt it, because the spirit in the machine has been corrupted by chaos, and they don't try to redeem chaos space marines, so you think their gonna try to redeem a spirit in the machine? doubt it.

as to the Adepta Sororitas they are re-consecrating as in the vehicle was already consecrated, hence not a chaos vehicle, but more of a regular maintenance kind of thing.

Asterios wrote:
I doubt it, because the spirit in the machine has been corrupted by chaos, and they don't try to redeem chaos space marines, so you think their gonna try to redeem a spirit in the machine? doubt it.

as to the Adepta Sororitas they are re-consecrating as in the vehicle was already consecrated, hence not a chaos vehicle, but more of a regular maintenance kind of thing.

Right, because there total are NOT tens and hundreds or thousands of Forge Worlds to do the job of regular maintenance.

They need to reconsecrate the gear because it has been fouled by the touch of Chaos.

 dusara217 wrote:

Asterios wrote:
I doubt it, because the spirit in the machine has been corrupted by chaos, and they don't try to redeem chaos space marines, so you think their gonna try to redeem a spirit in the machine? doubt it.

as to the Adepta Sororitas they are re-consecrating as in the vehicle was already consecrated, hence not a chaos vehicle, but more of a regular maintenance kind of thing.

Right, because there total are NOT tens and hundreds or thousands of Forge Worlds to do the job of regular maintenance.

They need to reconsecrate the gear because it has been fouled by the touch of Chaos.

which invariably happens with the Sister's battle vehicles, also the forge worlds do not do the maintenance it is done by the chapter, duh.

but on your note, why would they even need to bother with Chaos vehicles which have been warped beyond recognition and tainted so foul, when they have those self same factory worlds to make them more?

Asterios wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

Asterios wrote:
I doubt it, because the spirit in the machine has been corrupted by chaos, and they don't try to redeem chaos space marines, so you think their gonna try to redeem a spirit in the machine? doubt it.

as to the Adepta Sororitas they are re-consecrating as in the vehicle was already consecrated, hence not a chaos vehicle, but more of a regular maintenance kind of thing.

Right, because there total are NOT tens and hundreds or thousands of Forge Worlds to do the job of regular maintenance.

They need to reconsecrate the gear because it has been fouled by the touch of Chaos.

which invariably happens with the Sister's battle vehicles, also the forge worlds do not do the maintenance it is done by the chapter, duh.

but on your note, why would they even need to bother with Chaos vehicles which have been warped beyond recognition and tainted so foul, when they have those self same factory worlds to make them more?

I think that it's more along the line of powerful Daemonic artefacts with the potential for great power as an Imperial Artefact. Or it could be for some rare gear that is no longer able to be produced but still sees use with the Chaos Marines

Asterios wrote:
why would they even need to bother with Chaos vehicles which have been warped beyond recognition and tainted so foul, when they have those self same factory worlds to make them more?

Shortage of supply: There's constant references to the difficult and slow process of making land raiders, termie armour, etc. Some chapters only receive a trickle, and even some of the better known chapters don't have enough TDA to fully fit out their 1st company.

I don't know of an example in the fluff of the rule books, but in McNeill's books about the Ultra Marines, the main characters are more or less trapped on an Iron Warriors planet inside the eye of terror. They end up using bolters from fallen CSM, they don't like it, but they use them out of necessity.

Noc

I would say no, as the fluff says that chaos weapons have their own corrupted "machine spirit" that will corrupt the user over time.

If they did capture something really worth keeping, It would need to be exorcised and re-sanctified.