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 Crimson Devil wrote:
I think Battlefront can salvage their reputation if they announce they will refund all of the backers. There will be some hard feelings, but I think most backers would eventually forgive them. If they don't or suggest alternative products then they are morons. Some backers have already declared Jihad on them.

Dust Studios may or may not be able to. I think more damage was done to the brand than to either company. Whether backers would buy the stuff they pledged for through a different channel is an unknown. Paolo seems to be his own worst enemy.

Given the incompetence Battlefront has demonstrated throughout, not to mention the way it handles customer email (ie it doesn't) I doubt they'll be offering any refunds.

Dust could probably salvage a good chunk of its reputation by offering the models to backers for only the cost of postage. It would show they care more about the fans than the money, and it'd be a big finger to Battlefront who allegedly wanted the items for free in the first place.

DS apparently don't have any backer details, or any means of directly contact in the backers, so they are a bit hooped in thy respect. It's also an 'excuse' of course, so BF should release that info.

Battlefront will be just fine. About the only thing I believe fro their various statements on this issue is that Dust constitutes a minor portion of their income. Dust Studios has in all likelihood lost their 2nd chance at becoming a gaming mainstream game at this point but will likely shamble on zombie style for many years.

 Crimson Devil wrote:
I think Battlefront can salvage their reputation if they announce they will refund all of the backers. There will be some hard feelings, but I think most backers would eventually forgive them. If they don't or suggest alternative products then they are morons. Some backers have already declared Jihad on them.

Dust Studios may or may not be able to. I think more damage was done to the brand than to either company. Whether backers would buy the stuff they pledged for through a different channel is an unknown. Paolo seems to be his own worst enemy.

I doubt BF could refund all customers, and remain in business. That money is already gone.

Considering most of it went to pay existing debt....

A real shame that they let this go sideways. Once lawyers are involved, nobody wins but the lawyers. Upside is that I will likely be able to pick up a bunch of Dust stuff for cheap come sale season.

Actually Dust just lost it`s third major distributor (AEG>FFG>BF) and also lost many local distributors, when they started the KS without informing them beforehand. Tells you a lot about who the real problem in this debacle is.

About WI, it was always clear that BF would bring back WI from the dead and then give it back to its original owner. No surprise there and they definitly don´t do it because they are missing funds.

Now I've been following this on and off - had some interest in Dust Warfare but never got into the kickstarter - like many the apparent chaos with the brand encouraged me to take a "wait and see" approach, especially given Warfare's dubious future.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong on this, but would it be fair to oversimplify the debacle, insofar as we can tell, is Paolo's ego supersedes good judgement and Battlefront borrows a little too much from GW's playbook in terms of communication and management?

If I was looking to oversimplify, two people have a crappy marriage and try to have a kid to fix it. Predictable results ensue, though not without hurting the neighborhood.

I'd say BF took on a deal with DS that they immediately had buyer's remorse about and only ever participated in half-heartedly. Why that would be is an interesting question, especially since it doesn't appear to be a matter of lacking means; they've tooled plastics in excess of what this campaign raised and are backed by a quite wealthy family. To my entirely uninformed viewpoint this smacks of something much more "personal" between the companies.

So, BF took on part of FFG's obligations, but didn't pay the bank (see above about the relationship being petty, and for a long time). Dust, also on the hook to said bank, pushes BF to pay them like they should. Somehow the idea of a KickStarter gets floated, and BF uses the proceeds to pay off the bank. Conveniently, this negates a huge amount of DS's leverage in the deal, as the third party who can easily level a lien is taken care of. While there is some outcry from backers about KS funds going to extant debt, but DS knew that was the plan from before the campaign started, only the timing shocked them because the bank wasn't first (so they're not angels in this deal).

Very strange all around, but I'm curious to see how BF acts now with several hundred in FoW purchases in limbo pending resolution to this that takes care of the KS backers in some sort of fair fashion.

I think I'll be staying far away from Dust AND Battlefront for the foreseeable future.

 Alpharius wrote:
I think I'll be staying far away from Dust AND Battlefront for the foreseeable future.

Yep, this. All my Dust has been crated and put in storage; I'll keep to PSC for any FOW needs for a while. Both sides appear to be acting like children.

I've sold off all of my own Dust stuff some time ago and Flames of War lost me with their subpar piece of gak plastics in the Open Fire starter.

 Krinsath wrote:

I'd say BF took on a deal with DS that they immediately had buyer's remorse about and only ever participated in half-heartedly. Why that would be is an interesting question, especially since it doesn't appear to be a matter of lacking means; they've tooled plastics in excess of what this campaign raised and are backed by a quite wealthy family.

but ARE BF backed by a quite wealthy family, it may well be that the individuals involved in BF are not in the family good graces so even if the family could step in and front them the money they may not be interested in doing so (in the same way that parents of a kid who crashes the car they got for their graduation may decide that it's up to them to pay to get it fixed and if they can't they'll have to scrap it)

 Alpharius wrote:
I think I'll be staying far away from Dust AND Battlefront for the foreseeable future.

Have you been buying either or both companies' products? It's probably good advice but I'm curious if the folks posting that (which I agree with btw) will make an actual practical real world difference. I too will be staying away from both but in my case my total yearly purchase for both for two years consistes of two FOW decal packs.

Isn't running a campaign to pay a debt against the rules of KS. Since this has been openly admitted, then perhaps KS might actually do something about it?

KS won't do anything. They set themselves up to just sit back and farm gold and not care.

Really a shame how this drama all played out :( I'd love to see the game continue but I doubt that will happen. I do plan to pick up a few mechs for AdMech conversions though now that you can get em cheap. anything is better than the new googley-eye robots GW just made...

 n815e wrote:
Isn't running a campaign to pay a debt against the rules of KS. Since this has been openly admitted, then perhaps KS might actually do something about it?

A lot of Kickstarters go against the rules of Kickstarter - and Kickstarter does nothing about it.

Other than continue to collect those sweet fees, of course!

How big a percentage does KS pocket out of each successful project again?

 BrookM wrote:
How big a percentage does KS pocket out of each successful project again?

10%

 Cyporiean wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
How big a percentage does KS pocket out of each successful project again?

10%

5% actually. There's another 3%-5% charge from the payment provider but KS pockets 5% for themselves.

 Bolognesus wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
How big a percentage does KS pocket out of each successful project again?

10%

5% actually. There's another 3%-5% charge from the payment provider but KS pockets 5% for themselves.

Same difference on my end.

 Cyporiean wrote:

 Bolognesus wrote:

 Cyporiean wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
How big a percentage does KS pocket out of each successful project again?

10%

5% actually. There's another 3%-5% charge from the payment provider but KS pockets 5% for themselves.

Same difference on my end.

But not on kickstarter's or the question's.

Honestly, I think it would be best for consumers if KS instituted a mandatory insurance (say the "sweet spot" pledge amount) for projects and incorporated that into their fees. If the final product is nonexistant or vastly different to what was pledged for or if the delivery dateis sliding back more than a year behind schedule, the insurance option automatically kicks in. After two successful kickstarters (as determined by polling pledgers whether or not the creator fulfilled the contract IN A TIMELY FASHION), the insurance would be optional for KS that fall broadly within that average funding total. If you go over that total pledge amount significantly, it would kick back in (pun intended) as a part of the fees.

And another 3-5% for amazon too, isn't it?

 Compel wrote:
And another 3-5% for amazon too, isn't it?

No, it used to be 5% to KS and 5% to Amazon, but they recently dropped Amazon and now do the charging themselves.

Hi folks,

As someone who backed heavily - I have been quite interested in the ongoing saga for obvious reasons. I have my own suspicions as to who was the bad actor, but that's not why I'm posting. I'm just stealing a moment of bandwidth to relay to those who may not have seen the following elsewhere:

~~~~~~~
Relaying for those who aren't on the Dust Official Fan page (https://www.facebook.com/groups/303941853917 ),
Paulo said the following:
"Hi Guys,
l want to reassure all backers.
the letter that you have received is about information:
1- BF is out of the picture and why.
2- Get your money back or at least try very hard.
DS want you to know why next week you will be contacted again directly from us about the delivery of the miniatures that you have payed for.
We are working very hard together with trusted people amongst you to deliver a honest and straightforward proposal to solve the freebies issue directly with the backers.
Please don`t ask me for details now, it`s too soon. Bear with us a few more days and be informed that the delivery process will take a few more weeks to be initiated.
l am moved by all the messages of sympathy and support that l am reading on this group. l also share the frustration of all the others l would be the first to be MAD!
Long time ago l promised that backers will be delivered no matter what.
Thank God, William Yau and our partners in DS agree with me. smile emoticon
VIVA DUST!
P."

He also commented later:
"Paolo Parente: One thing for sure, if you have not yet sent us your Pledge manager and KS invoice. You should do it asap. info@dustgame.com."

When people directly asked if we would be paying for our pledges again (as the original post seemed to have implied) - Paolo said "My Friend, l did not say that. Read more carefully... " and "My English has it`s limits".

I can not and will not comment further until I *DO* see the "offer" - but I will relay this message to as many Kickstarter pledgers as possible:
SEND YOUR PLEDGE MANAGER AND KICKSTARTER INVOICE to DUST STUDIO AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. info@dustgame.com.

~~~~~~~

The only way this can be resolved satisfactorily (and for one party to look good in the whole matter) is for backers to receive their stuff. Whichever party goes "Okay, I'll send backers their stuff" is probably going to win the PR war

Alpharius wrote:I think I'll be staying far away from Dust AND Battlefront for the foreseeable future.

Triple9 wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
I think I'll be staying far away from Dust AND Battlefront for the foreseeable future.

Yep, this. All my Dust has been crated and put in storage; I'll keep to PSC for any FOW needs for a while. Both sides appear to be acting like children.

Never really needed to bujy the BF overpriced model in gthe first place. There are so many better and cheaper options.

There are so many better and cheaper options.

And they all provide you with a full set or rules?

 Duncan_Idaho wrote:

There are so many better and cheaper options.

And they all provide you with a full set or rules?

I did say models in the quote you cut.

And guess how those rules are financed...