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 megatrons2nd wrote:
What would happen if they were hit by something with strike down? It makes them move as if in difficult terrain the following turn.

Their rule only works on Terrain (Citadel Scenery Models) and Models, so any special rules that cause them to move as if they are in something will work.

So shards have the same wording. We're all fine with shards also ignoring restrictions, I hope.

 megatrons2nd wrote:
What would happen if they were hit by something with strike down? It makes them move as if in difficult terrain the following turn.

It would have no effect. They move as if in difficult terrain... and Wraithflight lets them treat difficult terrain as open ground.

 insaniak wrote:

 megatrons2nd wrote:
What would happen if they were hit by something with strike down? It makes them move as if in difficult terrain the following turn.

It would have no effect. They move as if in difficult terrain... and Wraithflight lets them treat difficult terrain as open ground.

I'm not so sure about that. The actual rule says "[...]can move over all other models and terrain as if they were open ground.", which implies that while they may treat any terrain as open, they aren't immune to having to move as if in difficult terrain by an effect.

TompiQ wrote:
...which implies that while they may treat any terrain as open, they aren't immune to having to move as if in difficult terrain by an effect.

How does it imply that?

 insaniak wrote:

TompiQ wrote:
...which implies that while they may treat any terrain as open, they aren't immune to having to move as if in difficult terrain by an effect.

How does it imply that?

Well, it would be the same as any other model suffering the same effect while on open ground, would it not? Since it's only the actual terrain that is counted as open ground, which in turn is what grants the wraiths the ability to ignore difficult terrain completely. Of course their Move Through Cover covers all the movement penalties, but the initiative one would trigger if you were under such an effect while charging.

TompiQ wrote:

Well, it would be the same as any other model suffering the same effect while on open ground, would it not?

No. Because any other model doesn't treat difficult terrain as open ground.


If the wraith moves in open ground, he treats it as open ground.
If the wraith moves in difficult terrain, he treats it as open ground.

So something that causes the open ground to treated as difficult terrain makes no difference to the wraith... because he moves in difficult terrain as if it was open ground anyway.

 insaniak wrote:

TompiQ wrote:

Well, it would be the same as any other model suffering the same effect while on open ground, would it not?

No. Because any other model doesn't treat difficult terrain as open ground.


If the wraith moves in open ground, he treats it as open ground.
If the wraith moves in difficult terrain, he treats it as open ground.

So something that causes the open ground to treated as difficult terrain makes no difference to the wraith... because he moves in difficult terrain as if it was open ground anyway.

The wraith is allowed to treat terrain as open ground. But "moving as if in difficult terrain" is an effect on its movement, it is not dependent on what terrain the wraith is actually passing through. It would have made a difference if the rule was "treat all terrain as difficult terrain". Then the wraith could have invoked wraithflight to move over it as if it were open ground.

 insaniak wrote:

TompiQ wrote:

Well, it would be the same as any other model suffering the same effect while on open ground, would it not?

No. Because any other model doesn't treat difficult terrain as open ground.


If the wraith moves in open ground, he treats it as open ground.
If the wraith moves in difficult terrain, he treats it as open ground.

So something that causes the open ground to treated as difficult terrain makes no difference to the wraith... because he moves in difficult terrain as if it was open ground anyway.

I take it you interpret terrain as Terrain Types instead of the actual terrain models on the table.

I interpret 'terrain' as 'terrain'... Which includes the board, not just the terrain models put on top of it.

 insaniak wrote:
I interpret 'terrain' as 'terrain'... Which includes the board, not just the terrain models put on top of it.

But even then, the only effect Wraithflight has is allowing you to move over models/terrain features (even if this includes the whole board) as if they were open ground. The rule is not that the wraith always moves through open ground. Everything around it just happens to be open ground, from its own perspective. If you then have to move as if in difficult terrain, you have to do so despite everything being open ground around you, which is why the wraith then has to take the I hit if charging under such an effect, with MTC mitigating the rest.

 insaniak wrote:
I interpret 'terrain' as 'terrain'... Which includes the board, not just the terrain models put on top of it.

I would agree with you on that, but I don't see how you are applying the Wraithflight rule. It only applies to terrain and models, not to being forced to move as if their are in difficult terrain.
In Battlefield Terrain, terrain is referred to as the physical model or object, while Terrain Types can be applied to or from other things. If the Wraiths are afflicted by such a rule, they would still treat the terrain and models they move over as open ground, however, Wraithflight gives no protection against Terrain Types that don't come from moving over a piece of terrain or model.

However you read it, show your opponent before game start. Tell them how you interpret it, and see how they feel. Until there is a FAQ, please do that.

Spaz431 wrote:
However you read it, show your opponent before game start. Tell them how you interpret it, and see how they feel. Until there is a FAQ, please do that.

Best recommendation for any questionable rule.

After researching the rules for move through cover and charging through difficult terrain...

"Warriors who charge through difficult terrain are subject to deadly salvoes of close range fire and must advance more cautiously. To represent this, [please read as bold type] IF AT LEAST ONE MODEL IN THE CHARGING UNIT MOVED THROUGH DIFFICULT TERRAIN AS PART OF ITS CHARGE MOVE, ALL OF THE UNIT'S MODELS MUST ATTACK AT INITIATIVE STEP 1 [end bold], regardless of other Initiative modifiers, even if the charging unit is not slowed by difficult terrain. Remember charging models must engage as many enemies in the target unit as possible."
Mini-Rule Book, page 47, second actual paragraph under "Charging Through Difficult Terrain"
Used without permission.

Yes, that was covered pages ago. Since Wraithflight says they "... can move over all other models and terrain as if they were open ground..." they never trigger that rule because they're never charging through difficult terrain.

Spaz431 wrote:
After researching the rules for move through cover and charging through difficult terrain...

"Warriors who charge through difficult terrain are subject to deadly salvoes of close range fire and must advance more cautiously. To represent this, [please read as bold type] IF AT LEAST ONE MODEL IN THE CHARGING UNIT MOVED THROUGH DIFFICULT TERRAIN AS PART OF ITS CHARGE MOVE, ALL OF THE UNIT'S MODELS MUST ATTACK AT INITIATIVE STEP 1 [end bold], regardless of other Initiative modifiers, even if the charging unit is not slowed by difficult terrain. Remember charging models must engage as many enemies in the target unit as possible."
Mini-Rule Book, page 47, second actual paragraph under "Charging Through Difficult Terrain"
Used without permission.

Move through cover was never involved in the argument. Refer to what Ghaz wrote above, and feel free to read the rest of the thread.

TompiQ wrote:

Spaz431 wrote:
After researching the rules for move through cover and charging through difficult terrain...

"Warriors who charge through difficult terrain are subject to deadly salvoes of close range fire and must advance more cautiously. To represent this, [please read as bold type] IF AT LEAST ONE MODEL IN THE CHARGING UNIT MOVED THROUGH DIFFICULT TERRAIN AS PART OF ITS CHARGE MOVE, ALL OF THE UNIT'S MODELS MUST ATTACK AT INITIATIVE STEP 1 [end bold], regardless of other Initiative modifiers, even if the charging unit is not slowed by difficult terrain. Remember charging models must engage as many enemies in the target unit as possible."
Mini-Rule Book, page 47, second actual paragraph under "Charging Through Difficult Terrain"
Used without permission.

Move through cover was never involved in the argument. Refer to what Ghaz wrote above, and feel free to read the rest of the thread.

I wonder how many times this is going to happen?

I mean he's, what, the third guy to barge into the thread declaring that he's found the answer by reading the rules for charging through difficult terrain without having bothered to go over the thread first?

Hopefully not as often as people end up on GW's Australian webstore and tell everyone about the price increase

What? Price increase? GW actually decreased their prices!
Oh, wait, I'm on the US store

But yeah, hopefully there are no more "I have the answer! I = 1" posts pop up.

This thread has served its purpose and probably can rest in eternal sleep until the great awakening 40k years from now

Don't you mean 38k years from now (2k + 38k = 40k)

I do, yeah... woops

 Ghaz wrote:
Don't you mean 38k years from now (2k + 38k = 40k)

When in doubt blame the ruinous powers!

 Galorian wrote:

TompiQ wrote:

Spaz431 wrote:
After researching the rules for move through cover and charging through difficult terrain...

"Warriors who charge through difficult terrain are subject to deadly salvoes of close range fire and must advance more cautiously. To represent this, [please read as bold type] IF AT LEAST ONE MODEL IN THE CHARGING UNIT MOVED THROUGH DIFFICULT TERRAIN AS PART OF ITS CHARGE MOVE, ALL OF THE UNIT'S MODELS MUST ATTACK AT INITIATIVE STEP 1 [end bold], regardless of other Initiative modifiers, even if the charging unit is not slowed by difficult terrain. Remember charging models must engage as many enemies in the target unit as possible."
Mini-Rule Book, page 47, second actual paragraph under "Charging Through Difficult Terrain"
Used without permission.

Move through cover was never involved in the argument. Refer to what Ghaz wrote above, and feel free to read the rest of the thread.

I wonder how many times this is going to happen?

I mean he's, what, the third guy to barge into the thread declaring that he's found the answer by reading the rules for charging through difficult terrain without having bothered to go over the thread first?

Maybe some of us find that one side's repeating the same tired yet unconvincing argument over and over via different posters is no more persuasive to us as when we do the same is to you. But that's ok. Pots, kettles, never mattered in YMDC.

I think we're done here...