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Made in us
Deranged Necron Destroyer




Somewhere Ironic

With the release of the Necron Codex, every Warhammer 40k army now has an up-to-date codex. While certain armies still do not have a physical codex (See: Sisters of Battle), they are all still up to 7th ed standards and terminologies. We all knew this would happen, and we're now here.

What are your thoughts on the current state of affairs of Warhammer 40k, in terms of power levels, meta, and fluff? What about the Warhammer 40k hobby in general? Do you think GW will start releasing codices again during this edition? Any questions you'd that you'd like to have the answers?

DQ:90S++G++MB++I--Pw40k01+D+A++/hWD-R+++T(D)DM+

Organiser of 40k Montreal
There is only war in Montreal

kronk wrote:The International Programmers Society has twice met to get the world to agree on one methodology for programming dates. Both times they met, the meeting devolved into a giant Unreal Tournament Lan party...
 
   
Made in gb
Prophetic Blood Angel Librarian




If I was GW I would release a new CSM dex before I'd consider everything up to date. Although the large amount of supplements/dataslates/IA:13 has helped them a long way.
   
Made in us
Trustworthy Shas'vre



california

I disagree. They are all hard back. Up to date. I think it is good tbh. Everyone has good units. Leave it be. Through armor books, supplements, data slates, every army can be decent to great.
   
Made in us
Blood-Drenched Death Company Marine




Little Rock, Arkansas

I think I can't wait for eldar and tau to get smacked by 7th edition updates.

20000+ points
Tournament reports:
1234567 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block






niv-mizzet wrote:
I think I can't wait for eldar and tau to get smacked by 7th edition updates.


I doubt that's going to be for a long long time.
   
Made in us
Deranged Necron Destroyer




Somewhere Ironic

Poly Ranger wrote:
If I was GW I would release a new CSM dex before I'd consider everything up to date. Although the large amount of supplements/dataslates/IA:13 has helped them a long way.

Would they be releasing it to give CSM new rules, or to consolidate the supplements and dataslates?

DQ:90S++G++MB++I--Pw40k01+D+A++/hWD-R+++T(D)DM+

Organiser of 40k Montreal
There is only war in Montreal

kronk wrote:The International Programmers Society has twice met to get the world to agree on one methodology for programming dates. Both times they met, the meeting devolved into a giant Unreal Tournament Lan party...
 
   
Made in us
Stoic Grail Knight





Raleigh, NC

Aren't there already a lot of rumors about the next CSM book? I'm not saying they're right but I highly doubt GW will get off this hardback train anytime soon. From their perspective, why should they?
   
Made in gb
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





UK

While at any point after everything had a post-5th codex, I would happily call 'halt' and leave the game as it is, GW have ensured the longevity of the cycle throught the introduction of codex-specific formations and detachments. Codex Updates are already largely recylced material, and this will go on, but now they can 'update' under the pretence of 'needing' to add those to each codex without them.

Honestly, I don't agree that these updates are needed, but GW have ensure there is at least something 'lacking' in the older codexes.

 
   
Made in no
Committed Chaos Cult Marine






Pain4Pleasure wrote:
I disagree. They are all hard back. Up to date. I think it is good tbh. Everyone has good units. Leave it be. Through armor books, supplements, data slates, every army can be decent to great.


There's bugger all internal balance in a few of the codices. I'd love to see Thousand Sons and Rough Riders reduced by 2 points, either give Rhinos an assault ramp option or drop Khorne Berzerker point costs etc. Then there's the internet's moan about jinking and Wave Serpent spams etc. There's a lot of to fix, but I still find wh40k very entertaining to play!
   
Made in us
Deranged Necron Destroyer




Somewhere Ironic

What are the worst contenders for unbalanced armies? What armies need boosts to their rules? What armies are perfect as they currently are?

DQ:90S++G++MB++I--Pw40k01+D+A++/hWD-R+++T(D)DM+

Organiser of 40k Montreal
There is only war in Montreal

kronk wrote:The International Programmers Society has twice met to get the world to agree on one methodology for programming dates. Both times they met, the meeting devolved into a giant Unreal Tournament Lan party...
 
   
Made in ca
Lord of the Fleet






Halifornia, Nova Scotia

 Accolade wrote:
Aren't there already a lot of rumors about the next CSM book? I'm not saying they're right but I highly doubt GW will get off this hardback train anytime soon. From their perspective, why should they?


Right?

Cut a bunch of fluff, recycle the rest, randomly shift some point values around and cut a unit or two, sell for $60. Then, sell back the units you cut with a random table or two or formation and some recycled fluff that was cut from the codex for another $60.

Then, you can sell some dataslates for things that could have easily been included in the base codex for even more money!

Then again, they may be working on the Apocageddon of Fantasy, so I'd expect some releases for that game over the next few months.

Oh, if it wasn't obvious, I'm not fond of the current state of the game. The fact there are people who proclaim the game is doing better because after seven editions and two decades the game has finally entered a state where all the codices are within one edition of eachother is pretty sad. If I'm expected to pay $60 for the rules for my faction, that book better include absolutely everything available to my faction, with lots of cool art, excellent fluff, and a detailed hobby section. Not to mention damn near perfect balance.

Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress

+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+

Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias! 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block






I'm a fan of dataslates and other stuff for 7th like formations and supplements. I think that all these things are great additions and make the game more flavorful, the fact that you don't have to buy them also means that a person doesn't have to pay for a few special rules that they do not want.
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight







The most balanced books are mostly Imperium... but that isn't saying much as the make the majority of the factions.

-SW: Balanced externally and I would also say internally (only units that lack are Dreadnoughts but... yea)
-IG: Balanced externally, bit weaker but I can't put my finger on it, internally... there are some questionable choices.
-DE: Now I want to say they're balanced but I don't know tooo much, my time playing against them makes feel just a little bit too weak. Internally I am too unfamilar.
-SM: There are lots of things about this codex that annoy me, externally bit too strong, internally its oddly... even, in that every model has a list where it is competitive.
-Tau: They're alright, a step ahead of all the Imperium codexes, but below the Xenos powerhouses. Internally its obvious the xenos of the xenos receive unequal treatment balance wise.
-Ork: ya gitz, we need moar dakka!

I could go on but these are the most familiar 'dexes for me. Necron player joined the area along with the new 'dex so I guess I'll see how that goes.

EDIT: Oh yea, the most of the codices don't have that flair, nothing that gets people excited to crack it open; rather most of the time it has been the opposite with most flavor been taken out (Necrons made out like Baby Face Nelson with so much awesome stuff, BA got some cool formations that gave back what they lost so that's a wash)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/02 13:49:47


 SHUPPET wrote:

wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
 
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Well, I think there are some pretty uninspiring actual codices out there that I wouldn't want to play with, just against.
Other than that, the price policy is questionable.

Former moderator 40kOnline

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Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss 
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 Shadelkan wrote:
What are the worst contenders for unbalanced armies? What armies need boosts to their rules? What armies are perfect as they currently are?


Most "Current" 6th Ed era Codex's have horrible internal balance - in my view all units should at least be worth playing - they also (mostly) lack the formations of later Codex's

eg:

Eldar - We all know Wave Serpents are broken and Howling Banshees are terrible - both need fixing.

The New Dark Eldar Codex is, to me, horrible - its shoved (again) players towards one aspect of the army and kicked in the teeth (again) the Wych cults which even in the new Codex are one of the most important elements of DE society and warfare. Even the new army style really requires the extra supplement..............

Imperial Guard, like DE lost a lot of fun and flavour and of course got Wyverns - which are not a fun addition.



I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

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A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
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Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

Sisters are horribly imbalanced as well, with a number of units being useless.
   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Sisters are horribly imbalanced as well, with a number of units being useless.


Very true

We have the excellent Exorcists and Dominions at one end of the spectrum and Repentia and Pentient Engines at the other.

The basic Sisters are pretty good, but the Celestians not.......and our general HQ is overpriced and should come with her rosaries as stock.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Sneaky Lictor




In my opinion data slates do not excuse a poor codex. My main army is Tyranids and if I wanted to play a super competitive list I could, but I would have to spend hundreds on extra DLC on top of my codex in order to do so and that is upsetting to me. I think the new wave of GW is going to be all about ripping out everything that makes the codex interesting and shoving one line of rules into a $15 DLC that took them about two hours to slap together.

Most of the new codexs are fairly well balanced with a few exceptions and become more balanced the more money you pay, this is a bad game design for the customer and serves only to make GW more money. In my opinion the balance is as bad as it has ever been in terms of using what models most people have been collecting for many years. In order for Tyranids to be competitive you need to buy a fortunes worth of Flyrants from the new kit that was released. I can't play with the army I have owned form 3rd anymore because more and more units are becoming obsolete in favor of newer kits.
   
Made in at
Dakka Veteran




niv-mizzet wrote:
I think I can't wait for eldar and tau to get smacked by 7th edition updates.


So that Daemons can rule all games unopposed?

Also, as a purely personal opinion I always find it funny when people put Tau and Eldar on the same level.
   
Made in ca
Trustworthy Shas'vre




I'm pretty sure my Tau codex is an edition down. It shares the current format, but things in there were given stats and rules based on an edition in which AP 4 could explode vehicles and there wasn't a psychic phase or super heavies as a part of standard game play.

I'm not saying this requires a big adjustment to be inline, but Tau, Eldar, CSM, SM, AM and other 6th ed codexes aren't perfectly up to date like the OP bases the premise of this thread on.

Tau and Space Wolves since 5th Edition. 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
In my opinion data slates do not excuse a poor codex. My main army is Tyranids and if I wanted to play a super competitive list I could, but I would have to spend hundreds on extra DLC on top of my codex in order to do so and that is upsetting to me. I think the new wave of GW is going to be all about ripping out everything that makes the codex interesting and shoving one line of rules into a $15 DLC that took them about two hours to slap together.

Most of the new codexs are fairly well balanced with a few exceptions and become more balanced the more money you pay, this is a bad game design for the customer and serves only to make GW more money. In my opinion the balance is as bad as it has ever been in terms of using what models most people have been collecting for many years. In order for Tyranids to be competitive you need to buy a fortunes worth of Flyrants from the new kit that was released. I can't play with the army I have owned form 3rd anymore because more and more units are becoming obsolete in favor of newer kits.

Hundreds? It's like $32.99 for the combined three Dataslates, all the new units have their rules online through the BL for free, and Leviathan is $66 USD if you buy it in print, and less if you get a digital copy. So total it's $98.99 for all the stuff, assuming you even get everything seeing that the Skyblight formation is in the Leviathan book negating the need for the dataslates unless you REALLY want those as well for the other formations.

So yeah, not "hundreds".

I mean I get that it's expensive but I had to drop over $650 on 3 textbooks for this semester. I'll use them a total of almost 4 months. So in comparison 40k looks CHEAP when it comes to the books.
   
Made in ca
Lord of the Fleet






Halifornia, Nova Scotia

 ClockworkZion wrote:
So in comparison 40k looks CHEAP when it comes to the books.


40k also looks cheap when compared to my luxury yacht and associated fees.

Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress

+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+

Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias! 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

 Blacksails wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:
So in comparison 40k looks CHEAP when it comes to the books.


40k also looks cheap when compared to my luxury yacht and associated fees.

I'm at least comparing like items here: books that serve largely as reference materials. But nice try.

Regardless my point stands, it isn't "hundreds" and they even consolidated the Invasion Dataslates into a cheaper bundle one.
   
Made in ca
Lord of the Fleet






Halifornia, Nova Scotia

 ClockworkZion wrote:

I'm at least comparing like items here: books that serve largely as reference materials. But nice try.



Its still a very poor comparison. Yachting and wargaming are both hobbies, which is more than you can say about textbooks to rulebooks.

Instead, let's compare wargames to wargames.

Where many games offer free rules, or entire faction books for $30 that include everything you need.

Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress

+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+

Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias! 
   
Made in us
Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh





Please leave CSM alone, GW has already curb stomped their teeth out. Thankfully Forge World IA13 is there to act as a crutch for CSM. Is GW going to commit sacrilege and heresy on the most heretic army?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/02 15:40:50


 
   
Made in us
Deranged Necron Destroyer




Somewhere Ironic

Jefffar wrote:
I'm pretty sure my Tau codex is an edition down. It shares the current format, but things in there were given stats and rules based on an edition in which AP 4 could explode vehicles and there wasn't a psychic phase or super heavies as a part of standard game play.

I'm not saying this requires a big adjustment to be inline, but Tau, Eldar, CSM, SM, AM and other 6th ed codexes aren't perfectly up to date like the OP bases the premise of this thread on.


I fully agree with the 6th ed codices being slightly out of line in terms of the 7th ed codices. Ignoring power levels, they are all identical in terms of terminology, rules references, and compatibility within each other. No 6th ed codex requires a complete rewrite, but most of them require a rebalance.

DQ:90S++G++MB++I--Pw40k01+D+A++/hWD-R+++T(D)DM+

Organiser of 40k Montreal
There is only war in Montreal

kronk wrote:The International Programmers Society has twice met to get the world to agree on one methodology for programming dates. Both times they met, the meeting devolved into a giant Unreal Tournament Lan party...
 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis




On the Internet

 Blacksails wrote:
 ClockworkZion wrote:

I'm at least comparing like items here: books that serve largely as reference materials. But nice try.



Its still a very poor comparison. Yachting and wargaming are both hobbies, which is more than you can say about textbooks to rulebooks.

Instead, let's compare wargames to wargames.

Where many games offer free rules, or entire faction books for $30 that include everything you need.

You mean where you're comparing historical games that can't protect their IP because it doesn't exist or games with smaller model ranges and lower faction counts?

Because yeah, if you want to get specific GW is running a fairly one of a kind business model here.

And do we REALLY need to turn every discussion into one about prices?
   
Made in us
Krazed Killa Kan





Denver, Colorado

I think it's great that they've gotten all the codexes within an edition of their current ruleset.

I assume they'll keep the codex train a-rollin' and start working on moving 6th codexes to 7th, which I also think is great.

Sure, everyone's got complaints about things in every codex, both good and bad, but at least they've shown that updating codexes is a priority for them.

"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment." Words to live by. 
   
Made in ca
Lord of the Fleet






Halifornia, Nova Scotia

 ClockworkZion wrote:

You mean where you're comparing historical games that can't protect their IP because it doesn't exist or games with smaller model ranges and lower faction counts?

Because yeah, if you want to get specific GW is running a fairly one of a kind business model here.

And do we REALLY need to turn every discussion into one about prices?


What do you mean it doesn't exist in non-historical games? What does smaller model range have anything to do with it? Or faction count for that matter?

GW is not running a one of a kind business. They are a wargame company producing a 28mm miniatures game. You might as well argue that every single game ever made is a one a kind business model.

There is no reason why a codex costs what it does, or why they charge what they do for dataslates, or even their core rules. The cost of other games for the rules is hugely cheaper, to the point where some are free for everything you need to play. GW is only making this worse, offering a $60 codex, then a $60 supplement with very little content, and a few dataslates for the amount of content other companies are offering for free or a quarter of that cost.

If you don't want to discuss prices, then feel free not to. I'll respond as long you reply to me.

Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress

+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+

Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias! 
   
Made in gb
Killer Klaivex




The dark behind the eyes.

 Mr Morden wrote:

The New Dark Eldar Codex is, to me, horrible - its shoved (again) players towards one aspect of the army and kicked in the teeth (again) the Wych cults which even in the new Codex are one of the most important elements of DE society and warfare. Even the new army style really requires the extra supplement..............


Yeah, this is my view as well. It's also stuck using inefficient, one-shot weapons, in an edition that strongly favours TL/multi-shot weapons.

Also, in the age of Dreadknights, Wraithknights and Riptides, a S3 Archon having access to AP2 would obviously be OP.

I think what really aggravates me most is that it just feels like a supplement for Eldar.


I'll be interested to see how the Necron book is regarded (both internally and externally) after some playtesting.

 blood reaper wrote:
I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.



 the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"

 Argive wrote:
GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.


 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"


Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.


 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
 
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