Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In my attempts to make Khorne CSM work becuase I can't afford to buy a new mono Nurgle army and shelve the one I have already started, I was flipping through my CSM codex and saw that a berzerker champion can replace his Bolt Pistol and his CCW with a plasma pistol, which would confer the Gunslinger rule, since he has two pistols. So, it would be a niche role, but I want to try it.

The plan: A min sized squad of Khorne Berzerkers with two plas pistol guys and two plas pistols on the champ costs in a rhino costs 200 points. Spam that and ride them around in their rhinos looking for choice targets. The trick will be getting into within six inches of anything that won't totally destroy them first, but eight plasma shots has to be worth something, no?

Ahhh....4 plas shots-pistols don't have rapid fire. So your range is 12 inches with 4 shots

The sad part is that for the same price you get 5 chosen with plasma guns, and a Rhino.
Also, only 2 can fire out of the Rhino, which means you are getting 3 shots if you are inside the Rhino.

skolirvarden wrote:
Ahhh....4 plas shots-pistols don't have rapid fire. So your range is 12 inches with 4 shots

Pistols fire 2 shots at half range, too. So, from 6" away, I would get 8 plas shots. My problem is reliably getting within 6" of anything worth shooting with that much plasma.

 Powerfisting wrote:

skolirvarden wrote:
Ahhh....4 plas shots-pistols don't have rapid fire. So your range is 12 inches with 4 shots

Pistols fire 2 shots at half range, too. So, from 6" away, I would get 8 plas shots. My problem is reliably getting within 6" of anything worth shooting with that much plasma.

No they don't!

dethric wrote:
The sad part is that for the same price you get 5 chosen with plasma guns, and a Rhino.
Also, only 2 can fire out of the Rhino, which means you are getting 3 shots if you are inside the Rhino.

Well, no matter what, I'm going to have to take a turn of enemy shooting in order to charge, which is the only time Berzerkers feel worth their cost anyway. I had thought of moving in my rhino, disembarking, shooting, hoping I have enough threats on the board in the form of other units like this, shooting again, and charging the next turn. The basic build on the top of this page is more or less theoretical and just a thought experiment about maxing out plasma. I may take bigger units, I may ally in some daemons for threat saturation. I come up with things like this all the time, but then I say to myself, "Oh, never mind. I can't afford to buy 3 greater daemons and two land raiders." What excites me is that I can feasibly try this out this time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SolentSanguine wrote:

 Powerfisting wrote:

skolirvarden wrote:
Ahhh....4 plas shots-pistols don't have rapid fire. So your range is 12 inches with 4 shots

Pistols fire 2 shots at half range, too. So, from 6" away, I would get 8 plas shots. My problem is reliably getting within 6" of anything worth shooting with that much plasma.

No they don't!

I just checked the BRB. I stand corrected and now I'm sad.

 Powerfisting wrote:

dethric wrote:
The sad part is that for the same price you get 5 chosen with plasma guns, and a Rhino.
Also, only 2 can fire out of the Rhino, which means you are getting 3 shots if you are inside the Rhino.

Well, no matter what, I'm going to have to take a turn of enemy shooting in order to charge, which is the only time Berzerkers feel worth their cost anyway. I had thought of moving in my rhino, disembarking, shooting, hoping I have enough threats on the board in the form of other units like this, shooting again, and charging the next turn. The basic build on the top of this page is more or less theoretical and just a thought experiment about maxing out plasma. I may take bigger units, I may ally in some daemons for threat saturation. I come up with things like this all the time, but then I say to myself, "Oh, never mind. I can't afford to buy 3 greater daemons and two land raiders." What excites me is that I can feasibly try this out this time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

SolentSanguine wrote:

 Powerfisting wrote:

skolirvarden wrote:
Ahhh....4 plas shots-pistols don't have rapid fire. So your range is 12 inches with 4 shots

Pistols fire 2 shots at half range, too. So, from 6" away, I would get 8 plas shots. My problem is reliably getting within 6" of anything worth shooting with that much plasma.

No they don't!

I just checked the BRB. I stand corrected and now I'm sad.

Yup, the weapon needs the rapid fire special rule to have that ability! Sorry!

Looks like Khorne and his buddies will have to stick to cutting and stabbing. Although if you have the points, there is certainly nothing wrong with giving each squad 3 plasma pistols. That's going to generally be two kills on the way in from those 3 guys alone! Then you have all the bolt pistol shots, and of course your close combat attacks.

Why don't you go balls out insane and create a proper zerk deathstar?
Landraider / Dreadclaw / Escape Hatch / Huron / Invis from Sorc or Be'Lakor - all that stuff makes them good.

You could run a 20-strong khornate marine squad infiltrated by Huron and with +1 str from Fabius Bile. 4 s6 attacks on the charge per model, anyone? S10 power fist?

Or infiltrate with Cypher for extra plasma shots and hit and run on the zerkers

skolirvarden wrote:
Or infiltrate with Cypher for extra plasma shots and hit and run on the zerkers

Ubfortunately, raw you can't infiltrate a squad with Cypher unless they have infiltrate themselves. That's why Huron/Ahriman + Cypher. They give infiltrate to D3 units. While Ahriman might seem a WTH choice, remember that he has 50% to roll invisibility.

 koooaei wrote:

skolirvarden wrote:
Or infiltrate with Cypher for extra plasma shots and hit and run on the zerkers

Ubfortunately, raw you can't infiltrate a squad with Cypher unless they have infiltrate themselves. That's why Huron/Ahriman + Cypher. They give infiltrate to D3 units. While Ahriman might seem a WTH choice, remember that he has 50% to roll invisibility.

Really? Not the way I've always read that combination...hmmmmm, that's interesting.

 koooaei wrote:
Why don't you go balls out insane and create a proper zerk deathstar?
Landraider / Dreadclaw / Escape Hatch / Huron / Invis from Sorc or Be'Lakor - all that stuff makes them good.

You could run a 20-strong khornate marine squad infiltrated by Huron and with +1 str from Fabius Bile. 4 s6 attacks on the charge per model, anyone? S10 power fist?

I forgot about Huron. I want to do this now.

Yep, don't forget Cypher for Shrowded and H&R. He's a nice option together with his band of infiltrating merry men with guns. A bunch of supporting meltas or plasmas is very handy for your mellee deathstar. And Chosen are not weaklings in CC themselves. Chosen have 3 attacks - 2 base and + 1 cause they come stock with both bolters and bp/ccw, thus even melta chosen have 3 attakcs, 4 on the charge.

I've already used the 20zerkers + Khârn + cypher. The unit is pure murder to just about anything you point it at. The real fun begins when you attach an undivided sorc in the unit. Yeah, there is the obvious invisibility option, but the super secret ninja option I love is rolling on sanctic & biomancy. If you get the optimal grouping of hammerhand, endurance.. well...
If anyone ever says that 76 S7 attacks form the zerkers, plus the 5 claw/fist attacks on the champion (I always use claw/fist on them), then the 8 S9 ap2 armorbane attacks from Khârn. That infiltrated thanks to cypher. If you're evil and managed to take this uebergroup as part of the butcherhorde, all that's going to happen is skulls for the skull throne.

CSMs can only replace ONE weapon with their ranged weapon list.

This means the only character that can gunsling double plasma pistols is the chosen champion (as the second plasma pistol can be taken as an 'any model' upgrade in the chosen entry).

Sorry to be a debby downer.

Put 9 in a landraider with a lvl 3 unmarked sorcerer taking all biomancy. Eternal warrior, 4+ feel no pain khorne berzerkers anyone??

Gunslinging double plasma sounds like a terrible idea anyway. You're out 40+ points if one single wound T4 guy dies.

StarHunter25 wrote:
I've already used the 20zerkers + Khârn + cypher. The unit is pure murder to just about anything you point it at. The real fun begins when you attach an undivided sorc in the unit. Yeah, there is the obvious invisibility option, but the super secret ninja option I love is rolling on sanctic & biomancy. If you get the optimal grouping of hammerhand, endurance.. well...
If anyone ever says that 76 S7 attacks form the zerkers, plus the 5 claw/fist attacks on the champion (I always use claw/fist on them), then the 8 S9 ap2 armorbane attacks from Khârn. That infiltrated thanks to cypher. If you're evil and managed to take this uebergroup as part of the butcherhorde, all that's going to happen is skulls for the skull throne.

Aha, s8 marines with Fabius Bile! Who needs power fists, eh.

Mavnas wrote:
Gunslinging double plasma sounds like a terrible idea anyway. You're out 40+ points if one single wound T4 guy dies.

On the plus side he'll likely blow himself to bits with overheating before getting himself into a suicidal challenge.

Yay Chaos!

New FAQ says (as was enforced locally anyway) you can't convey infiltrate to a unit by adding an IC. Those plasma pistol shots are very important for a zerker unit, though. It softens the enemy before the charge, and gives a chance at dealing damage to armor if you need it.

 koooaei wrote:

StarHunter25 wrote:
I've already used the 20zerkers + Khârn + cypher. The unit is pure murder to just about anything you point it at. The real fun begins when you attach an undivided sorc in the unit. Yeah, there is the obvious invisibility option, but the super secret ninja option I love is rolling on sanctic & biomancy. If you get the optimal grouping of hammerhand, endurance.. well...
If anyone ever says that 76 S7 attacks form the zerkers, plus the 5 claw/fist attacks on the champion (I always use claw/fist on them), then the 8 S9 ap2 armorbane attacks from Khârn. That infiltrated thanks to cypher. If you're evil and managed to take this uebergroup as part of the butcherhorde, all that's going to happen is skulls for the skull throne.

Aha, s8 marines with Fabius Bile! Who needs power fists, eh.

Fabius can only enhance a squad of Chaos Space Marines.

"One Chaos Space Marine unit (see the army list entry on page 95) can be nominated as enhanced warriors." Page 95 is the army list section for CSM squads and cultists.

Yes. You've got regular khornate marines with s4 base + 1 for Fabius + Furious charge from an icon + 2 for hammerhand = s8 marines.

OP is asking about zerkers, though, not CSM. Plus, the guy you were quoting was talking about Berzerkers.

And i was talking about s8 marines. Come on, freaking marines striking you with s8 chain swords! Worth going offtop.

Zerkers will be buffed in the next codex

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Zerkers will be buffed in the next codex

We can only hope sir

 jackflashultra wrote:

 Dalymiddleboro wrote:
Zerkers will be buffed in the next codex

We can only hope sir

I wouldn't say Buffed, per say. The rumors are saying cult troops will be condensed into upgrades for CSM, so potentially, there will be a 'cult' upgrade for CSM, Bikes, raptors, termies, etc. so, while Berzerkers stand to get better next edition, it will only be because there aren't a lot of things you can do to make them worse and they would likely be overshadowed by cult- upgraded terminators or bikes. Come on. If I can upgrade terminators to have MoK, Fearless, FC, and WS5, why take power armor?

 Powerfisting wrote:
I wouldn't say Buffed, per say. The rumors are saying cult troops will be condensed into upgrades for CSM, so potentially, there will be a 'cult' upgrade for CSM, Bikes, raptors, termies, etc. so, while Berzerkers stand to get better next edition, it will only be because there aren't a lot of things you can do to make them worse and they would likely be overshadowed by cult- upgraded terminators or bikes. Come on. If I can upgrade terminators to have MoK, Fearless, FC, and WS5, why take power armor?

Because your termies will cost 65 ppm and can't sweeping advance?

 Drasius wrote:

 Powerfisting wrote:
I wouldn't say Buffed, per say. The rumors are saying cult troops will be condensed into upgrades for CSM, so potentially, there will be a 'cult' upgrade for CSM, Bikes, raptors, termies, etc. so, while Berzerkers stand to get better next edition, it will only be because there aren't a lot of things you can do to make them worse and they would likely be overshadowed by cult- upgraded terminators or bikes. Come on. If I can upgrade terminators to have MoK, Fearless, FC, and WS5, why take power armor?

Because your termies will cost 65 ppm and can't sweeping advance?

Touche. But 65 ppm termies that will do something sound like a better deal than 40ppm termies that just kind of... stand there and die. The point is berserkers might get better, but if the rumors are true, cult raptors and bikers will work out being better anyway.

Where did those rumors come from, out of curiosity?