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Semi serious question. I played a razor/predator spam blood angel list in 5th. Just starting to look at coming back to 40k now. With assault squads moved back to fast attack, Im trying to find a good reason to play them as blood angels vs iron hands successors painted red.
What would you guys say? I'm not entirely opposed to buying new stuff, but I'd also like to be able to make use of some of the stuff I have (assault marines on foot, razorbacks 3 baal preds, 3 auto/las preds)

- Assault Marines wielding meltaguns. Need I say more?

- Tactical marines have access to Heavy flamers as a heavy weapon choice, and grav weaponry army-wide.

- Dante. Motherfething Dante. He got an INSANE boost to his stats and became a blob blender with a jetpack and hate to share. He can also duke out with MC's and survive. Turned into LoW, but he's Eternal Warrior (finally!), and basically every BA player wants to field him, and I don't see any reason why not.

- Mephiston got nerfed in the terms of statline, but he became an Independent Character! Rejoice! This STILL keeps him as a scary character to approach with anything else besides hammernators or IC dreads.

- Death Company got balanced: they lost the questionable WS5, but got a dramatic points drop in wargear - ESPECIALLY jump packs, which are now 3 points per model. Another reason to rejoice.

- Most of the vehicles can still be Fast, in a form of +10 points upgrade. Now you can field the same Fast Vindicators/Predators/Razorbacks you know and love, but cheaper!

Now, the comparison with Vanilla marines: BA lack Centurions, Hunters/Stalkers, Land Speeder Storms, TFC's and Chapter Tactics, but compensate it all with a wide variety of capable named characters, hijinks mentioned above, Furious Charge army-wide, and some intense formations.

It is up to you to make the ultimate decision, but I'd say that the BA went to a better direction.

- Most of the vehicles can still be Fast, in a form of +10 points upgrade. Now you can field the same Fast Vindicators/Predators/Razorbacks you know and love, but cheaper!

how is that possible. Before if you took 5 assault marines a razorback got cheaper. now they can't take razorbacks, so you have to buy it for full. The razorback takes out the same fast attack slot as the assault marines, so it will be multi CAD, which in a lot of places means no ally centurions. And the upgrade cost 10pts, how can it be cheaper then it was before?

Makumba wrote:

how is that possible. Before if you took 5 assault marines a razorback got cheaper. now they can't take razorbacks, so you have to buy it for full. The razorback takes out the same fast attack slot as the assault marines, so it will be multi CAD, which in a lot of places means no ally centurions. And the upgrade cost 10pts, how can it be cheaper then it was before?

Because in 5th Ed BA Codex, Razorback with any turret upgrade (counting out TL heavy flamers) was worth 90 points, and now it's 85 points in current codex. Yes, the change is marginal, but still cheaper. I forgot that both included Fast upgrade, sorry about that.

The idea about getting Razorback for Assault marines was silly anyways. Besides; Vanilla marines never got that chance either in the first place. Welcome to the Codex Astartes level.
They can still get drop pods or rhinos for free, though.

There are a few crappy nerfs. Asm got double hit by not being troops and losing razorbacks, probably because GW knew that razorback assault squads used to be a thing that everyone has, and they want you to buy something different. Also they know all the BA players already have 6+ full squads of asm.

Jp death company, frag cannon furiosos in drop pods, Dante, and sanguinary priests. Those are our star units. If you don't put one of those in your list, you should've gone codex marine.

Here's 10 Reasons:
1. Furious Charge
2. Sanguinary Guard
3. One Of The Best Warlord Traits In The Game (DOA)
4. Death Company
5. Superior Assault Marines
6. Superior Tactical Marines
7. Overcharged Engines
8. Fast Attack Rhinos, Razorbacks & Drop Pods
9. 4 Elite Detatchments
10. Sanguinary Priests

I would really add: 11. +1 Initiative on the Charge in a Baal Detachment

niv-mizzet wrote:
There are a few crappy nerfs. Asm got double hit by not being troops and losing razorbacks, probably because GW knew that razorback assault squads used to be a thing that everyone has, and they want you to buy something different. Also they know all the BA players already have 6+ full squads of asm.

Jp death company, frag cannon furiosos in drop pods, Dante, and sanguinary priests. Those are our star units. If you don't put one of those in your list, you should've gone codex marine.

My foot assault troops are now foot vanguards that go in a Land Raider with Corbs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

zantis wrote:
Semi serious question. I played a razor/predator spam blood angel list in 5th. Just starting to look at coming back to 40k now. With assault squads moved back to fast attack, Im trying to find a good reason to play them as blood angels vs iron hands successors painted red.
What would you guys say? I'm not entirely opposed to buying new stuff, but I'd also like to be able to make use of some of the stuff I have (assault marines on foot, razorbacks 3 baal preds, 3 auto/las preds)

C:SM is a better codex because of Tiggy/gravstar/TFC/Stormtalon/Landspeeder storm. But BA have their own tricks going on.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves in the land speeder storm. It's not garbage mode in FA anymore, but that doesn't mean it deserves to be on the pile of things that make codex marines good.

Biker troops, white scars, ultramarines, Tigurius, grav centurions, storm talons and thunderfire cannons are why vanilla marines are for once the best codex out of the loyalist books.

If you want a jump packs, then ba is better than raven guard.

Faction loyalty and formations that are pretty amazing. Other then that, its a weaker codex overall.

zantis wrote:
Semi serious question. I played a razor/predator spam blood angel list in 5th. Just starting to look at coming back to 40k now. With assault squads moved back to fast attack, Im trying to find a good reason to play them as blood angels vs iron hands successors painted red.
What would you guys say? I'm not entirely opposed to buying new stuff, but I'd also like to be able to make use of some of the stuff I have (assault marines on foot, razorbacks 3 baal preds, 3 auto/las preds)

Semi serious answer. Because you like Blood Angles. You like the minis you like the fluff. Then again if you must win with plastic toy soldiers or man toys then maybe iron hands successor may suit you better.

The question I have is why are you coming back if you can't play with something you like? It seems you are a Blood Angel player. So why change to Iron Hands painted red just so you can win a few games? I think you have to look at why you really want to come back to a game that is very unbalanced with poor written rules if you can't play the army you want. Why did you leave in the first place?

Serious answer now.

I can understand loosing all the time is not fun and at least to be competitive. I use to play Dark Angels and Tyranids. I still kept playing them even though I never won a game. I just suck at 40K but I still have fun. (Prices finally made me quit. Nobody could keep affording it in my play group so we all basically quit playing. So I just model now.) If you want to play again do what you need to do. If you find the Blood Angel rules no fun play something fun and use counts as, like you said Iron Hands successor painted red. My question is, will this give you the fun that you want. If so, I say go for it. If not just use what you have like you said, but don't buy nothing new because you just may quit again.

Nothing wrong in using a different codex if you find more fun in using it. Just think hard before coming back and spending more money on something you may not be liking.

Davor wrote:


Semi serious answer. Because you like Blood Angles. You like the minis you like the fluff.

This is the best answer