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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/11 02:06:07
Subject: Are assassins dying?
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Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle
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I am trying to build a 1500/2000/2500 point Grey Knights list supplementing with an assassin and knights.
Looking over the possibility it seems that the assassins are not what I remember from years ago when I first played played them. Do you feel they are not worth it and dying out of use?
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"Look upon me and know that I can slay you at will. You have no defence save one: to look into the darkness at the back of your own mind. There, you will find Father Nurgle waiting to offer you life in return for your submission. Deny him, and you are mine." — Typhus the Traveller, Herald of Nurgle
9,500-CSM
3,500-GK
Cryx
Trollbloods
Neverborn
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/11 02:07:53
Subject: Are assassins dying?
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Assassins haven't really been all that since 2nd edition.
The 2nd Edition Eversor, now... that was a scary, beautiful thing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/11 02:12:06
Subject: Are assassins dying?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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insaniak wrote:Assassins haven't really been all that since 2nd edition.
The 2nd Edition Eversor, now... that was a scary, beautiful thing.
DO go on...
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CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/11 02:26:41
Subject: Re:Are assassins dying?
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Virulent Space Marine dedicated to Nurgle
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Yeah I also remember Vindicare being great being able to snipe into combat. The Ignor all saves blade (don't remember what assassin). Just seems points went up and quality went down.
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"Look upon me and know that I can slay you at will. You have no defence save one: to look into the darkness at the back of your own mind. There, you will find Father Nurgle waiting to offer you life in return for your submission. Deny him, and you are mine." — Typhus the Traveller, Herald of Nurgle
9,500-CSM
3,500-GK
Cryx
Trollbloods
Neverborn
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/11 02:27:23
Subject: Are assassins dying?
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Masculine Male Wych
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I can't speak much to how the game has changed over the years, as I only just started to play - however I have followed the fluff and have been at least partially active in the community for several years, and what I've noticed is that the paradigm has shifted pretty drastically towards small, elite units. You've got things like Knights and Baneblades stomping around in normal games, units like Wave Serpents and Necron Wraiths that are impossibly hard to kill and require a lot of focused firepower. If my guess is correct, I'd say that now it's a lot more commonplace to bring firing solutions that are made for small meaty units. Horde armies aren't very popular anymore, so the tools to beat them are out of use as well.
If logic follows, then a single unit that can't join any squads in a game filled with weapons made to tear down knights and deathstars... well, they're not going to last very long. That's not to say you can't get good use out of them, but typically they're a pretty hefty points cost and unless you get lucky rolls, position them well, and are up against the right army, they're going to have a very hard time making their points back.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/11 03:03:07
Subject: Are assassins dying?
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Boom! Leman Russ Commander
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I was fond of the callidus when you could move an enemyunit before first turn with it's ability. Made for some fish in a barrel shooting if you got first turn.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/11 04:15:06
Subject: Are assassins dying?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
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The Vindicare is still incredible; 150pts to up and remove any model in a unit ranges from useful to hilariously powerful depending on what you're fighting. He's a reliable anti-vehicle weapon, he's murder on Skimmers with Ignores Cover, he can turn a quad-gun from threatening to devastating, and with three wounds now he's much tougher than people expect.
The other Assassins are useful counterpicks (a Culexis makes a summon-spam Daemons army or an invisible deathstar just stop working) but none are as generally applicable as the Vindicare. Automatically Appended Next Post: SweaterKittens wrote:I can't speak much to how the game has changed over the years, as I only just started to play - however I have followed the fluff and have been at least partially active in the community for several years, and what I've noticed is that the paradigm has shifted pretty drastically towards small, elite units. You've got things like Knights and Baneblades stomping around in normal games, units like Wave Serpents and Necron Wraiths that are impossibly hard to kill and require a lot of focused firepower. If my guess is correct, I'd say that now it's a lot more commonplace to bring firing solutions that are made for small meaty units. Horde armies aren't very popular anymore, so the tools to beat them are out of use as well.
If logic follows, then a single unit that can't join any squads in a game filled with weapons made to tear down knights and deathstars... well, they're not going to last very long. That's not to say you can't get good use out of them, but typically they're a pretty hefty points cost and unless you get lucky rolls, position them well, and are up against the right army, they're going to have a very hard time making their points back.
Put bigger threats on the table. Are you going to shoot the Valkyrie full of meltaguns tearing up the field into your face, or are you going to shoot the one guy all the way back there who's out of range of two thirds of your stuff?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/11 04:16:20
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/11 04:21:17
Subject: Are assassins dying?
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Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight
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The problem with assassins are they are counters... which means they aren't useful except for well... countering which means you're list tailoring or damn lucky.
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SHUPPET wrote:
wtf is this buddhist monk ascendant martial dice arts crap lol
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/11 04:23:06
Subject: Are assassins dying?
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Masculine Male Wych
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SweaterKittens wrote:I can't speak much to how the game has changed over the years, as I only just started to play - however I have followed the fluff and have been at least partially active in the community for several years, and what I've noticed is that the paradigm has shifted pretty drastically towards small, elite units. You've got things like Knights and Baneblades stomping around in normal games, units like Wave Serpents and Necron Wraiths that are impossibly hard to kill and require a lot of focused firepower. If my guess is correct, I'd say that now it's a lot more commonplace to bring firing solutions that are made for small meaty units. Horde armies aren't very popular anymore, so the tools to beat them are out of use as well.
If logic follows, then a single unit that can't join any squads in a game filled with weapons made to tear down knights and deathstars... well, they're not going to last very long. That's not to say you can't get good use out of them, but typically they're a pretty hefty points cost and unless you get lucky rolls, position them well, and are up against the right army, they're going to have a very hard time making their points back.
Put bigger threats on the table. Are you going to shoot the Valkyrie full of meltaguns tearing up the field into your face, or are you going to shoot the one guy all the way back there who's out of range of two thirds of your stuff?
I didn't say he was not worth the points or even bad. Hell I'm running one in the Sisters army I'm working on. I'm just saying that statistically, you get ~5 shots a game, assuming that you always have a target and never move, and while you get +2 to making people take LoS! rolls, Hq's still pass on 4+ and rarely have less than 2 wounds. They're a great problem solver but I can think of many games where, had I had a Vindicare on the back line, they just wouldn't have had that much to shoot at. People running MSU where every squad is a threat means that you can maybe pop the Sergeant or the special weapons guy, but that's a drop in the ocean. Again, I'm not saying they're bad, I'm just saying that realistically they cost a helluva lot for something that might not make it's points back if you roll poorly or your opponent brings the 'wrong' army for it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/11 04:26:23
Subject: Are assassins dying?
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Imperial Guard Landspeeder Pilot
On moon miranda.
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Assassin's have some uses.
The Vindicare is wonderful for certain tasks. Thunderfire cannon causing you problems? If the Vindicare has LoS, dude almost certainly hits, allocates to the techmarine using hellfire round wounding on a 2+ and P2 and ignores cover, goodbye thunderfire cannon. Jinking skimmer causing you problems? S10 Ap2 no-cover Turbo-penetrator has its uses.
The Culexus currently is astoundingly capable, and can absolutely shut down a psyker heavy army.
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IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.
New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/11 04:37:02
Subject: Are assassins dying?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
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Quickjager wrote:The problem with assassins are they are counters... which means they aren't useful except for well... countering which means you're list tailoring or damn lucky.
That's why the Vindicare is the best Assassin, its got the widest range of possible targets and some of its targets (Skimmers, hidden weapons, strange-equipment low-Wounds characters) are both popular and common these days.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/11 19:02:36
Subject: Are assassins dying?
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Esteemed Veteran Space Marine
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I really wished the Vindicaire's rounds all wounded on a 2+, reducing it to just two different types, Turbo Penetrator or Shield Breaker. It makes no sense that the Turbo Penetrator requires a 4+ to wound when its considered S10.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/11 22:50:15
Subject: Are assassins dying?
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Repentia Mistress
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I like my vindicare. Thus far I've only gotten to deploy him once, and just used him to pick off some prime targets (non IC). I just plopped him up on a building and started shooting. I really wanted to try and take out an IC over the course of 2-3 turns, but I chickened out and went for the assured kills on squad members
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/11 23:01:33
Subject: Re:Are assassins dying?
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Fixture of Dakka
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I've used the callidus and the vindicare, neither were terribly good IMO. I still preferred the callidus as it usually achieved something, the vindicare always felt like a waste.
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Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/12 09:06:05
Subject: Re:Are assassins dying?
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Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant
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The Culexus really doesn't shut down psyker armies very well.
The movement phase is before psychic, so all the enemy has to do to overcome the amazing anti psychic shutdown, is move. How terribly difficult.
It's best use is in countering not psykers themselves, but invisible stars. It is currently the only thing in the game that can strip blessings already in effect, and is invaluable when that invisible cent star is chewing up your army.
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