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This may seem an attempt to free up a fair number of points in smaller games, but this concern relates much more to a fluff problem then a crunch one. What it boils down to is that space marines lack a HQ that could, in a sense, be considered expendable. In a army that would size around 500pts the presence of a chapter master would certainly be unnecassiry, but wouldn't the presence of a captain or chaplain be unnecessary as well? Each of these indivduals are a ration on 1/100 in each chapter, and would have to focus there attention on larger scale operations where more of the chapter is focused. If that is not the case then and more than a handfull of marines are readily avilable for this battle, then the captain would just steam roll the enemy with superior resources. A single squad or small strike force of similar set up being lead by an experienced sergeant could definitely find a place in the fluff, but what about crunch?
Would it be plausible to elect a Sergeant as your warlord, and not take a HQ choice when playing a small skirmish?
Would a new HQ choice consisting of a single Veteran Sergeant or some equivalent of such be plausible?
Or would either of these be considered to give this force too much of an advantage from extra points?

In previous editions there were more low cost SM HQs. Down to and including 1W “commander" models. The SM rank structure also used to include guys like lieutenants, so there was a little more then just captains and sergeants in the chain of command.

If it helps, you can think of your 500 point force as part of a larger army. It’s just the part that made contact with the enemy. And they are more then capable of leading from the front, filling enemies with bolter rounds while coordinating action on a planetary scale.

From a game play POV bare-bones librarians and chaplains fit well into low point lists. You can think of them as hand picking a squad or two to go out and accomplish some objective.

I do recall the various HQ units from 3rd edition and wouldn't mind seeing something akin to this in the future. That aside, the concept of it acting as a spearhead does help my mind

You can also bet that the squad he leads would be a little better than average.


Oddly the rules atm let you simply designate a vet sergeant as your warlord if you have no HQ characters. I don't think there have been any ways to get a command benefit this way but it isn't pertinent.

There is also garadon, who appears to be rubbish.

No other potential for official rules since there's no reason to make or sell a separate model.

The only restriction on your Warlord is that he has to be a Character model. He can be a Captain, a Sergeant, an Apothecary, a Techmarine, whatever you feel like.

Lore-wise the concept of a "Force Commander" is a Space Marine junior officer detached from the Honour Guard to command smaller forces.

In 7th ed, ANY character can be your warlord. They also get warlord traits. If you have no characters in your army, then any model may fit the bill. These, however, don't get any warlord traits.

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
In 7th ed, ANY character can be your warlord. They also get warlord traits. If you have no characters in your army, then any model may fit the bill. These, however, don't get any warlord traits.

Yep, any character model can be your warlord, but you still need at least one HQ, which my whole point was SM Chapters don't exactly have a lot of those to spare

While some groups dislike it, there is always unbound lists. The HQ + two troops things can be rough for a lot of armies at low points, not just SM.

Nothing in the rulebook says you needed an HQ. But, you think it would be good to have one that's a sergeant. Good job, if you check Novell's post history you'll probably find like eight+ threads by people who think so too.

When your making that unit, the problem is that if it's an independent character then he's useless, and then there is the example of Sergeant Garadon. Sergeant Garadon is an HQ character who replaces a tactical squad sergeant, but the problem is he makes the squad into an HQ, and the whole point of this thread is that you want to have troops with Ob Sec and a cheap HQ, not an HQ that actually takes away Ob Sec.

Idk what to tell you.

If you could get your group to agree to it, or maybe try a few games like is but, wouldn't an extra wound for a few points be exactly what you want?

Don't mess around with it, just put an option in the Tac Squad list, or any other unit that has an option for a vet sarge, that for an extra few points you can upgrade the vet sarge to a lieutenant, giving him +1 wound and maaaybe access to the special weapons list. No need to make him an IC, he can lead the battle from his squad.

Should work pretty good I think.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and call your upgraded sarge an HQ, that way you can be CAD friendly...

I would allow this, 25 points to takes Veteran Sergeant with BP/CCW and allow him to take all standard Sergeant wargear, plus Terminator Armour, jump packs, bikes and storm shields. No relics, AA, or Relic Blades though. Single model, independent Character. Maybe even able to wear Scout Armour for free and take camo cloak and sniper rifle if Scout Armour is taken.

This really has me thinking! I may just try this out in a 500 point game! Might be a great way to get more bodies on the field, SM have always sucked at that, more so at lower points values.

I am gonna play test all these ideas! Naturally I'll try my idea first.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Pelican brings up an interesting problem with the HQ thing.

You could just do this.

HQ
Space Marine Lieutenant 35 points
Ws4/Bs4/S4/T4/W2/Int4/A2/Ld9
Type: Independant Character
Gear: Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Frags, Kraks, Power Armour.
Special Rules: ATSKNF, Lead From The Front.

Lead From The Front: This Marine is an officer of the Adeptus Astartes and thus always leads his men into battle at the head of his unit. During Army Selection you may, instead of using an HQ option presented in Codex Space Marines, upgrade one of your Squads Sergeants to a Lieutenant for 35 points. He must remain with his Unit for the entire game. The Unit type remains the same for all rules purposes. Any unit that has an option for a Veteran Sergeant may take this option. Note that each Lieutenant must purchase the relevant options to make his unit type match that of his unit. Example, a Lieutenant purchased for a Bike Squad must also take a space marine bike and pay the appropriate points cost as per the Special Issue Wargear list.

Options.

May take weapons from the melee and ranged lists.
May take options from the Special Issue Wargear List.
May take a Storm Shield for 25 points.


More on this later! Lol

Wolf guard battle leader is a good precedent; blood angels techmarine are too. cheap HQ.

darkcloak, regarding "Lead From The Front" if he must stay as part of the unit he was bought for, what is the purpose of giving him IC?

For such small games, consider Kill Team or Zone Mortalis rules. The main 40k rules don't hold up very well at that size.

A Mastery Level 1 Librarian is the cheapest hq avaible and has essentially a veteran statline. And just have him as a really junior librarian or a lieutenant type character that has developed psyker powers

Space Wolves have Wolf Guard Battle Leaders, which are more or less an HQ sergeant. 50 points, 2 wounds, Init 5, WS5 BS5, access to chapter relics, and they get a Warlord trait. Pretty much the perfect HQ for a low points game. They need something like that for all marine armies.

A Veteran Sergeant for 25 points would be fair, making Independent Character a free upgrade.

The other option would simply be to add a special rule like this, which could apply to any army, not just Marines;

Limited Engagements: Some battles are too small to warrant the attention of the Captain of an entire Space Marine company, a Guard Colonel or the like. In games of under 1000 points, any unit from the Troops section may instead be designated an HQ choice, for example a Tactical Squad or Platoon Command Squad (though the rest of the Platoon they were chosen with remain Troops).