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Dear dakkanauts, after taking a look at the new space wolves codex to find out if they can take land raiders as dedicated transports, I noticed that they could not take landraiders, but instead, they do have the option to take stormwolves. After that I wondered, that could they be used in a competetive list, as they do offer some capabilities that other armies lack. However, the stormwolf does also have some very limiting qualities, so I was wondering, could someone on dakka answer my questions.

The main use that the stormwolves could serve is the role of an antitank gunship, as it can be armed with missile launchers and lascannons. However, that will cause the problem that the helfrost cannon will be useless, as it is only good against mecs. However, for its price, even without the helfrost cannon the stormwolf can be useful, as it is hard to kill, and BS 4 with high strength weapons will cause trouble to any vehicles the opponent might wield. Also, this will support its other purpose, which is that it can at the end of the game drop the infantry to enemy objectives, which will make this list extremely mobile.

However, the stormwolf has two main problems, which can make it unusable, the biggest one is, that it is a flyer, which means that as such it cannot always face the opponent, or it has to risk taking hits by going howermode. Also, the second problem caused by the flyer type is, that it has to go howermode also, if its passengers want to disembark. Finally, taking these as a troop transport will be expensive, as 300 points per squad allows little space for other units.

You've summed up the problems of Flyer transports in general quite succinctly. Stormravens, Storm Eagles, Caestus rams, and Stormwolves all tend to come on from Reserves, fire off their entire payload, jink like mad to survive a turn, and then drop into hover mode to let their passengers assault and hope that the passengers are a big enough threat that they don't immediately die the next turn. Usually you either go with one Flyer transport and present your opponent with a lot of threatening units on the ground or you go all out and bring as many Flyers as you can to make their AA's day difficult.

This is why the Nightscythe is the best Flyer Transport, being able to stay in Zoom mode and disembark units is amazing.

Not sure how I feel about a 200+ model that may not even turn up until T4 and wait until T5 to get troops on the battlefield.

 Frozocrone wrote:
This is why the Nightscythe is the best Flyer Transport, being able to stay in Zoom mode and disembark units is amazing.

Not sure how I feel about a 200+ model that may not even turn up until T4 and wait until T5 to get troops on the battlefield.

I'll tell you how I feel: It's crap!

 Frozocrone wrote:
This is why the Nightscythe is the best Flyer Transport, being able to stay in Zoom mode and disembark units is amazing.

Not sure how I feel about a 200+ model that may not even turn up until T4 and wait until T5 to get troops on the battlefield.

I love my Combat Drop Valkyries, half hit turn one and they can unload troops while still in the air. The SM assault vehicle flyers are fun tools but they're not competitive.

Confused. SW can take land raiders....

 Sienisoturi wrote:
Dear dakkanauts, after taking a look at the new space wolves codex to find out if they can take land raiders as dedicated transports, I noticed that they could not take landraiders, but instead, they do have the option to take stormwolves. After that I wondered, that could they be used in a competetive list, as they do offer some capabilities that other armies lack. However, the stormwolf does also have some very limiting qualities, so I was wondering, could someone on dakka answer my questions.

The main use that the stormwolves could serve is the role of an antitank gunship, as it can be armed with missile launchers and lascannons. However, that will cause the problem that the helfrost cannon will be useless, as it is only good against mecs. However, for its price, even without the helfrost cannon the stormwolf can be useful, as it is hard to kill, and BS 4 with high strength weapons will cause trouble to any vehicles the opponent might wield. Also, this will support its other purpose, which is that it can at the end of the game drop the infantry to enemy objectives, which will make this list extremely mobile.

However, the stormwolf has two main problems, which can make it unusable, the biggest one is, that it is a flyer, which means that as such it cannot always face the opponent, or it has to risk taking hits by going howermode. Also, the second problem caused by the flyer type is, that it has to go howermode also, if its passengers want to disembark. Finally, taking these as a troop transport will be expensive, as 300 points per squad allows little space for other units.

FIrst off, double check your codex because landraiders are available for space wolves if that's what you really want.

Personally, I'm a much bigger fan of the stormwolf though. The helfrost cannon will not be wasted because you do have power of the machine spirit. I frequently fire both multi-meltas and the lascannon into a tank while splitting off the strength 6 ap3 blast into a unit of nearby troops or I aim it at a monstrous creature hoping to wipe them out with a single failed strength test.

Coming in from reserves can be a pain, but if you really want to you could take the landing pad to start on the board turn 1. Alternatively, if you run the primary space wolves detachment you can bring one unit in from reserves without making a roll each turn so you don't have to worry about them being delayed a lot.

I consider the stormwolf more durable than the landraider because you need to snapshoot to hit it and it generously has ceramite plating while the landraider doesn't. Much of the reliable antitank I see in the game comes from melta weapons so even though the armor values are lower, not getting an extra d6 to pen is awesome. The mobility won't be too much of an issue once you get used to positioning flyers and planning ahead for targets, but worse case scenario you can drop into hover to hit a dangerous target as you said. 12/12/12 isn't exactly easy to crack even on the ground especially since you can still jink. I think the storm wolf is one of the best units in our codex and I've never been disappointed in its performance.

I think the OP say most SW units cant take a Landraider as DT.

I dont see the problems with using stormwolfes.
It come in turn 2 and can go to hover in turn 3 to drop bloodclaws. Fine, a landraider would not be able to reach as far even by turn 4. Use it to harass enemy home objectives or those pesky units hanging back in home deployment zone ruins.
And because the battle has come more than halfway you are able to see where the reinforcements are best needed.
A landraider would struggle for a coulple of turns and then end up by an empty flank, because most enemies move pretty fast these days.
A stormwolf flying in, releasing bloodclaws, and blasting vehicles left and right can copleatly cripple an enemy flank and turn the battle.

I would not build a whole tactic around it, but I think it bring an advantage and contibute something really usefull to the SW army.

Well the problem with the above logic is that one out of three times, it WON'T come in on Turn 2. Its a lot of points to invest in a unit who relies on rolls before they even get on the table.

If a game like 40k is about mitigating randomness/dice rolls... adding another layer of them to an army seems like an invitation to play at a 300+ point handicap on any given day. :-p

Just use the Space Wolf formation and then you have a guaranteed arrival.

I agree with your conclusions.

I prefer the stormwolf to the stormfang.

I think using the stormwolf in place of a landraider to transport an expensive unit into combat is an absolutely terrible idea - expect the guys to come in turn 3, and assault turn 4. That's 2/3s of the game they're not really doing anything.

The main issue with stormwolfs is they compete for space with drop pods - which are really, really good. Instead of 15 bloodclaws with a chaplain in a stormwolf I'd take 2 units with urik in 2 drop pods - that's 4 objective secured units. Although I wouldn't take this unit from the start. Instead of terms in a land raider chuck them in a drop pod and they're down turn one - perhaps supported by one of the best dreadnoughts in the game.

That being said:

I think that the stormwolf is very good in a combined arms detachment.

I would take a unit of 5 blood claws with a stormwolf, maybe providing them with a flamer if you have the points. I believe this is the most effective method and the configuration has done well for me in the games I've played.
The twin linked multi-meltas can wreak absolute havok, but add to the points cost and aren't always necessary.

The strategy I find is to use it's objective secured status to try to contest/capture late game, or have maneuverability in maelstrom missions. It is quite survivable, until it drops into hover mode. Even then, it can still jinx (unlike a landraider or rhino). It's plethora of twin-linked weaponry means that even when you're jinxing you are still likely to hit something. Unfortunately it can not tank shock a unit off an objective - but 5 bloodclaws with a flamer will remove the smaller units of 3 bikers, or summoned horrors without too much trouble. I think 1-2 is a good number, maybe 3 as you're really trying to allocate them to the far reaching objectives with little support near the end game. They aren't nearly as effective as an objective secured unit in a drop pod for holding an objective in your end. Thankfully you can take a mix of both! They are also not an army on their own - mainly support for whatever else you might take (that's hopefully fast and self sufficient).

For comparison: A nightscythe with 10 warriors is 15 points cheaper than the stormwolf with 5 bloodclaws. A nightscythe with 5 immortals is 50 points cheaper, but not as survivable as stormwolf with 5 guys inside (assuming they have objective secured and therefore are not decurions). If they don't, you're contesting, not capturing, at best. The stormwolf certainly has more potent shooting, especially if you get around cover saves. It can support your thunderwolf calvary quite well.

A trend in 7th has been to move away from flyers, as most can't score. this certainly helps the stormwolf's ability to survive. You also have the ability to stay out of range of broadsides with your movement, and probably kill one per wolf a turn, should the mission call for it. They're quite strong (especially with meltas) against knight titans, because they can change their ark facing fairly easily.

**I would not use the stormwolf as a transport for the hammer of your army. I would use it as fire support and take it to grab objectives with an objective secured unit. In this case, coming in late game improves its ability to survive and isn't so bad. In maelstrom you want it to come in as soon as possible and to jump from objective to objective - ideally you have thunderwolf calvary with ICs to split up and get them early game.

If you're of the opinion that drop pod spam is the way to go (it made the top 8 of lvo, you can take meltavets in drop pods now!) then you should avoid the stormwolf like the plague and go for the cheaper vendetta.

Based on anecdotal evidence and basic math I would suggest:
1. You're going to be outclassed by wave serpents.
2. Grav weapon spam is an absolute nightmare for this type of unit, but at least they're snap firing against you, you have longer range, so avoid them and get off the board or suicide to kill their knight, and you'll probably kill alot of bikers - which spacewolves can deal with pretty well in general.
3. If you take a couple of stormwolves you will pose a significant problem for necrons, who won't die, but will have problems taking you out if you avoid them. If they're decurion (why wouldn't they be) they're also not objective secured, so keep these alive, sacrifice your other units and win the mission.
4. Daemons have problems with flying armour 12 - and you can kill their s9 flying MCS (not all of them will be s9).
5. They're decent against flyrants - the haywire poses a problem but you kill them very well and s6 spam isn't so great against you.
6. I've only faced IG in 6th with a nightscythe army - no help here other than you avoid wyvreens and destroy tanks
7. You're pretty good at taking out lynxes.

You're probably not in one of the top 10 tournament lists based on the fact that you're not using the space wolves to abuse their drop pods as fast attack choices with a billion units hoping to slow the game and hopefully have more of your objective secured units alive at the end of the game than your opponent.

You're also unlikely to be called a cheesey git, and can sit back and have a good laugh while you charge your genetically enhanced supermen riding killer wolves towards your opponent. You could also throw a knight titan into the mix for some fun.