Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2015/02/15 02:01:55
Subject: 40k and complaining- FNP Wargamers, Five Ups
Has this person considered that a) maybe if there's a lot of complaining, there may be some issues a lot of people feel strongly about with the game, and b) complaining and enjoying the game are not mutually exclusive affairs.
I felt the whole video just tries to dismiss any criticism of GW/40k by calling it complaints/negativity, and simplifies everything down to the tired arguments of 'GW needs to make money!' and 'don't play if you don't like it!'.
Nothing of any real substance. I'd certainly hope in real life gaming, even the most bitter of 40k players would have the common sense and social skills to not bitch incessantly to their opponent. That said, there's nothing wrong with voicing a reasoned opinion and raising criticism of a product, given the right time and place.
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+
Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias!
2015/02/15 02:33:14
Subject: Re:40k and complaining- FNP Wargamers, Five Ups
A) people complain for various reasons, they are mostly about prices or their specific army and what they dont like and how others get such better benifits
B) That is not always true. Lets say you have a specific tea you like. A stranger comes along, bashes said tea, and then it gets you thinking especially about things you didnt even know about the tea you loved. just as an example.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/15 03:33:51
A) people complain for various reasons, they are mostly about prices or their specific army and what they dont like and how others get such better benifits
Which are very valid criticisms and shouldn't be brushed aside or told to stop because you don't like it or think its too negative. If enough people are being vocal about the same thing for the same reason, it stands to reason there's a problem that should be addressed, not told to go away.
B) That is not always true. Lets say you have a specific tea you like. A stranger comes along, bashes said tea, and then it gets you thinking especially about things you didnt even know about the tea you loved. just as an example.
Why is that a bad thing? Finding out more information about a product and thinking about options and ways for something to improve should be seen as a good thing. Doesn't mean you still can't enjoy that tea.
Also most gamers having social skills and common sense not to bitch in the wrong venue? You did say gamers right?
Yes, I did say gamers. Of course, we're all basement dwelling, neckbeard sporting, mountain dew drinking, no showering, dweebs without an ounce of tact. Hurr hurr.
*Edit* Are you the person in the video?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/15 02:40:41
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+
Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias!
2015/02/15 02:48:03
Subject: 40k and complaining- FNP Wargamers, Five Ups
This seems like some very textbook GW white knighting to me. Like they can do no wrong, and if we don't like some particular part of the product, we should just shut up about it instead of expressing our opinion.
A) people complain for various reasons, they are mostly about prices or their specific army and what they dont like and how others get such better benifits
Know what? I think i see far more complaints about how gak the game has gotten and how people wish it was better so they could enjoy it and get back into it than I ever do explicitly about price. That said, it is also possible I seem more complaints about complaints than I do explicitly about price.
B) That is not always true. Lets say you have a specific tea you like. A stranger comes along, bashes said tea, and then it gets you thinking especially about things you didnt even know about the tea you loved. just as an example.
Like Sails says, I fail to see how this is a negative. Engaging in discourse with someone with an opposing view who challenges your accepted beliefs and perhaps forces you to reevaluate things is the very point of talking about stuff. How dull would a thread be if it was simply "this is brilliant!" "we all agree!?"
Also most gamers having social skills and common sense not to bitch in the wrong venue? You did say gamers right?
Yeah, cause taking cheap shots at a group that includes yourself is really the way forward? I happen to class myself as a high functioning nerd, I've talked to girls and everything. (I even touched a boob once. ) Most gamers are generally decent people with above average intelligence IME, sure there's the odd "odd" one, but that's not exclusive to gamers, even if perhaps the incidence is a little higher than average.
Still, I entered this thread in the hope that there would be some sort of fresh angle, and once again, I will leave disappointed.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Yeah, cause taking cheap shots at a group that includes yourself is really the way forward? I happen to class myself as a high functioning nerd, I've talked to girls and everything. (I even touched a boob once. ) Most gamers are generally decent people with above average intelligence IME, sure there's the odd "odd" one, but that's not exclusive to gamers, even if perhaps the incidence is a little higher than average.
Still, I entered this thread in the hope that there would be some sort of fresh angle, and once again, I will leave disappointed.
Brushing against some girl in a supermarket and your elbow hitting her boob does not count, Azrael.
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
2015/02/15 02:53:42
Subject: Re:40k and complaining- FNP Wargamers, Five Ups
The OP is always pimping out FNPwargamers, so if it isn't, there's definitely a connection. Evidently trying to give stuff away raised zero interest, so he's decided to adopt a more trollish approach instead!
Yeah, cause taking cheap shots at a group that includes yourself is really the way forward? I happen to class myself as a high functioning nerd, I've talked to girls and everything. (I even touched a boob once. ) Most gamers are generally decent people with above average intelligence IME, sure there's the odd "odd" one, but that's not exclusive to gamers, even if perhaps the incidence is a little higher than average.
Still, I entered this thread in the hope that there would be some sort of fresh angle, and once again, I will leave disappointed.
Brushing against some girl in a supermarket and your elbow hitting her boob does not count, Azrael.
No, no, it was deliberate, consensual, she was even awake.
But we digress, back on the (very thin) topic with you.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/15 02:54:50
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
The OP is always pimping out FNPwargamers, so if it isn't, there's definitely a connection. Evidently trying to give stuff away raised zero interest, so he's decided to adopt a more trollish approach instead!
Interesting.
I'll be putting the OP on my radar from now on. Been slipping lately.
Mordian Iron Guard - Major Overhaul in Progress
+Spaceship Gaming Enthusiast+
Live near Halifax, NS? Ask me about our group, the Ordo Haligonias!
2015/02/15 02:56:11
Subject: Re:40k and complaining- FNP Wargamers, Five Ups
The OP is always pimping out FNPwargamers, so if it isn't, there's definitely a connection. Evidently trying to give stuff away raised zero interest, so he's decided to adopt a more trollish approach instead!
Interesting.
I'll be putting the OP on my radar from now on. Been slipping lately.
.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/15 03:10:41
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
2015/02/15 03:01:03
Subject: Re:40k and complaining- FNP Wargamers, Five Ups
A) people complain for various reasons, they are mostly about prices or their specific army and what they dont like and how others get such better benifits
B) That is not always true. Lets say you have a specific tea you like. A stranger comes along, bashes said tea, and then it gets you thinking especially about things you didnt even know about the tea you loved. just as an example.
Also most gamers having social skills and common sense not to bitch in the wrong venue? You did say gamers right?
Drink that GW Kool aid and sit on that high horse son!
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
2015/02/15 03:06:13
Subject: Re:40k and complaining- FNP Wargamers, Five Ups
A) people complain for various reasons, they are mostly about prices or their specific army and what they dont like and how others get such better benifits
B) That is not always true. Lets say you have a specific tea you like. A stranger comes along, bashes said tea, and then it gets you thinking especially about things you didnt even know about the tea you loved. just as an example.
Also most gamers having social skills and common sense not to bitch in the wrong venue? You did say gamers right?
Drink that GW Kool aid and sit on that high horse son!
.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/15 03:10:19
Peregrine - If you like the army buy it, and don't worry about what one random person on the internet thinks.
2015/02/15 03:08:48
Subject: Re:40k and complaining- FNP Wargamers, Five Ups
OP, I am assuming that these are your videos or you are at least trying to promote them. Judging by your title and subject matter I would gather that you are trying to appeal to wargamers as an audience. Insulting your audience on a public forum is not a good way of promoting your show.
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
2015/02/15 03:32:44
Subject: Re:40k and complaining- FNP Wargamers, Five Ups
Well for starters, it was an obvious joke about gamers since I am one myself. To be honest I just wanted to express how I felt about the negativity lately at my FLGS. I put a disclaimer at the beginning noteing that this is indeed just my opinion that I am expressing. Haters will always hate, I get that, I just want to play the game and have fun with friends since I only get to do it once a week if that.
Sails, the give away is still going on. I am promoting because I am a new channel. Battle reports do not get tons of hits normally, MWG get 20,000s or so on a normal basis. I run these for fun and everything is out of pocket including time.
I want to help with tactics and just have a good time.
Our FLGS like most are lower profit stores, not many store owners are rich or well off. I like to support my FLGS, but it takes away when people want to bash a game and potentionaly having the owner lose sales.
Like I said in the video this is just my opinion, you can either agree or disagree, I am not trolling, I may just be blindly following GW or haven't been playing long enough to be jaded yet. Either way, I love our community and it feels like we got away from the purpose of the game, which is to have fun, and roll dice.
Tone is very hard to convey over the internet and the way you worded your joke made it seem like a genuine statement. Especially since you used it as a retort for Blacksails said. Content creators need to be more careful about what they say since they are placed under more scrutiny. Just some advice.
Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far!
2015/02/15 03:46:52
Subject: Re:40k and complaining- FNP Wargamers, Five Ups
Thank you lime, I will be more careful in the future, I see that now, I really wasn't expecting so many comments. I am very new to this. Thanks for the advice.
Like I said in the video this is just my opinion, you can either agree or disagree, I am not trolling, I may just be blindly following GW or haven't been playing long enough to be jaded yet.
By the same measure, perhaps you haven't got enough experience to so lightly dismiss other people's opinions?
Incidentally, referring to people as being jaded is another way of dismissing what may be genuine grievances. I'm not jaded because the game isn't well balanced. Sails isn't jaded because the rules are frequently vague and poorly written, someone else isn't jaded because GW frequently charge a significant premium for those rules over other competitiors.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/15 04:02:24
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Like I said in the video this is just my opinion, you can either agree or disagree, I am not trolling, I may just be blindly following GW or haven't been playing long enough to be jaded yet.
By the same measure, perhaps you haven't got enough experience to so lightly dismiss other people's opinions?
Incidentally, referring to people as being jaded is another way of dismissing what may be genuine grievances. I'm not jaded because the game isn't well balanced. Sails isn't jaded because the rules are frequently vague and poorly written, someone else isn't jaded because GW frequently charge a significant premium for those rules over other competitiors.
Jaded isn't inherently an insult. Jaded means that you go in with a base prejudice and from what I've seen on Dakka, a lot of users are jaded against GW. Whether you want to argue on if that prejudice is justified is fine, but to say people aren't jaded is a lie.
Automatically Appended Next Post: OP, I get the gist of what you're trying to say, but you have to understand that when you have something that a lot of people are passionate about, emotions run high. Look at the Call of Duty games. Plenty of people are on the side of "hey they're fun, stop complaining" and on the opposite "it's just rehashed trash".
I wouldn't tell people to stop complaining and just have fun/accept it, but I would tell them not to intrude on other's fun. If you've moved on, then thats fine and good for you, but don't go to a store on 40k night and bash other players.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/15 05:14:06
Blacksails wrote:complaining and enjoying the game are not mutually exclusive affairs.
I don't think that's true.
If someone is complaining about something they don't like it. They may like the IDEA of it, or they may like a fictional version of it in their head, or they may like the memories they had of something in the past, but they don't like it, as it is, now. Not anymore.
It's nice to cling to the fiction that you still like something (or someone, for that matter), but it's just a fiction.
Blacksails wrote:complaining and enjoying the game are not mutually exclusive affairs.
I don't think that's true.
If someone is complaining about something they don't like it. They may like the IDEA of it, or they may like a fictional version of it in their head, or they may like the memories they had of something in the past, but they don't like it, as it is, now. Not anymore.
It's nice to cling to the fiction that you still like something (or someone, for that matter), but it's just a fiction.
Very well said Ailaros. I think a lot of people like 40k for what it used to be or the memories they had, but I don't think you can still like something that you extensively hate in its current form.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/15 05:45:32
Anyone who disagrees with me is whining, also, by law, you're not allowed to have negative opinions of things I like because freedom, or something. No one's making you, or forcing you or something. Gw has to make money, or something. Also, if you're negative in flgs's about gw, the flgs won't like it (that made me spill my vodka).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/15 07:33:21
Do you play 30k? It'd be a lot cooler if you did.
2015/02/15 08:33:10
Subject: Re:40k and complaining- FNP Wargamers, Five Ups
reason why we see so much complaining: the people happy with the game are not loudly telling everyone the game is doomed online. goes to the saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease"
I'll never be able to repay CA for making GW realize that The Old World was a cash cow, left to die in a field.
2015/02/15 12:00:51
Subject: Re:40k and complaining- FNP Wargamers, Five Ups
Brennonjw wrote: reason why we see so much complaining: the people happy with the game are not loudly telling everyone the game is doomed online. goes to the saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease"
When GW is the mechanic, the squeaky wheel gets a load of grit.
(A snip at £200 for really high-quality grit.)
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2015/02/15 12:27:42
Subject: Re:40k and complaining- FNP Wargamers, Five Ups
Brennonjw wrote: reason why we see so much complaining: the people happy with the game are not loudly telling everyone the game is doomed online. goes to the saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease"
GW is alone responsible for 3 out of 4 stores closing in my city, and stores is where we play. How am I suppose to be happy about the fact, that even if some people drop out of wargaming, it is now harder to get a place to play? For me it is doom and gloom, because if the last store closes and decides to not run table top games, and it more or less what I hear from people working there, I won't have a place to play at all
And that is not all we have close to 0 new people. when I say close, I mean that the new people are never actualy new people, but those who come back play for 3-4 months and then quit, because of 7th rules.
Or how we have to explain anyone new that to play he needs a rule book, codex, ally codex, fortification book, if he wants to use any , supplements if he wants to use any and by the time we get to the cost of it all, he is going the other way.
Or how on a more personal level, GW made my faction unfun for me to play with and impossible to resell to get a new army.
2015/02/15 12:39:58
Subject: 40k and complaining- FNP Wargamers, Five Ups
If you don't mind me asking, Makumba, which faction do you play?
blood reaper wrote: I will respect human rights and trans people but I will never under any circumstances use the phrase 'folks' or 'ya'll'. I would rather be killed by firing squad.
the_scotsman wrote: Yeah, when i read the small novel that is the Death Guard unit options and think about resolving the attacks from a melee-oriented min size death guard squad, the thing that springs to mind is "Accessible!"
Argive wrote: GW seems to have a crystal ball and just pulls hairbrained ideas out of their backside for the most part.
You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.
Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
2015/02/15 13:06:27
Subject: 40k and complaining- FNP Wargamers, Five Ups
Video is just the typical "leave GW alone" post... but in video form instead of post form!
Do people assume when they make a video of something it makes them seem like they have more authority on a matter or something? It really makes no sense to me why you would make a video of yourself talking when you could just as quickly have written it down and then people don't have to waste 6 minutes listening to your whining to see if you actually made any good points.
I can read faster than you can talk, just fething write it down.