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2015/02/19 20:08:14
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Hmm... just theoryhammer, but if you follow Dash's suggestion, you probably want 2-3 Embrace and 2-3 Kiss, with the last slot in the transport taken by the Shadowseer.
2015/02/19 20:12:15
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Swastakowey wrote: Ok so in a squad of 6 (for the purposes of transportation) what would be the ideal load out?
I still feel in most scenarios its better to go for the embrace, but when you add well armored infantry or monsters it starts to change things.
"Ideal" load out is very subjective. I'd say you, quite literally, can't go wrong with kisses. As I explained above, I think the Embrace invites an unnecessary risk for a pretty minimal reward except in a few situations (low AV tanks, low armor horde-type units). If you find that you never have any issues getting the HoW off, then Embrace and Kiss do pretty much the same amounts of dmg.
Caress is to expensive for what it does, don't take it for any reason (except on the solitaire, on whom it is both mandatory and receives the greatest benefit from it). Power Sword on your Troupe master is his highest dmg output option, but he should be a kiss until you literally can't buy another bare-bones harlequin body with the swords' cost.
3 harlequin troups of 5 models (one will have troupe leader making one squad of 6) 1 of each elite (solotaire etc) 3 transports 1 unit of jetbikes 1 heavy support vehicle.
This keeps me within the force org, means I get a nice variety of models and so on.
The solotaire will have to run around on his own, while there is enough for 1 character per squad that can still fit in their transports.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/19 20:37:47
2015/02/19 20:27:56
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Asmodas wrote: Thanks Dash, I remember seeing that when you first posted it. Very helpful mathhammer.
Now that we have more information, I think we may need to reconsider a couple assumptions in your math. First, we now know the transport only takes 6 models. Thus, 10 man troupes may not be viable (unless you're allying with DE for a Raider). Second, we now know that Harlequins in a Masque and in some formations can move-run-charge after turn 1. I think those two pieces of info swing the pendulum back toward the Embrace, as it's much easier to make base-to-base with only six models and with the additional movement move-run-charge gives you.
6 Harlies in a Starweaver - 6" move on the vehicle, deploy 6", average 4" fleeted run, then average 8" fleeted charge = reliably charge anything within 24" of the Starweaver's starting position. If your target is less than 24" away, you can probably count on making base-to-base with the whole Troupe (barring terrain features such as buildings/impassable terrain). Also keep in mind that the preferred targets of Embraces (Necron Wraiths, Thunderwolf Cavalry, Ork mobs, Khorne dogs, gaunts) tend to come to you.
I'm not saying the Kiss is a bad choice - just that you might want one unit of each so you have the versatility to deal with different kinds of threats.
Edit: more math
Assume 6 Harlequins vs. 20 Ork Boyz. Due to their WS and I, Harlies always strike first and need a 3+ to hit.
6 CCW: Harlies attack 25 times
16 hits, 8 wounds, 1 save. 7 dead orks.
14 Orks attack back, 28 attacks, 14 hits, roughly 9 wounds. Harlies are wiped out.
6 Kiss: Harlies attack 25 times
19 regular attacks, 12 hits, 6 wounds, 5 dead orks
6 kiss attacks, 4 hits, 3-4 wounds, no saves allowed, so 3 or 4 more dead orks.
11 Orks attack back, 22 attacks, 11 hits, roughly 7 wounds. 5 Harlequins die, maybe the Troupe Master survives.
Harlies win combat by 3, but the squad is probably done for the game. If the Orks don't break, they will finish them off next turn.
6 Caress: Harlies attack 25 times
16 hits, 4 of which are auto-wounds at AP2, the other 12 hits turn into 6 wounds. 1 is saved, so 9 dead orks.
11 Orks attack back, same results as above.
6 Embrace: Harlies attack 37 times if they can make base-to-base with all models. Let's say 35 though, assuming 1 model doesn't make it in.
10 S6 HoW hits, 8 wounds, 1 is saved. 6 dead orks.
Harlequins pile in, attack 25 more times. This is just like the CCW example above. 7 more Orks die.
7 Orks are left. They attack back 14 times, hit 7 times. ~4 wounds, conservatively 1 is saved. 3 Harlequins go down.
Harlequins win combat by 10 wounds.
What this is missing is the fact that the Ork boys will be hitting on 5+ at least half of the time because of failed fear tests, therefore, most combats wouldn't end in wipped out harlequins.
3 harlequin troups of 5 models (one will have troupe leader making one squad of 6)
1 of each elite (solotaire etc)
3 transports
1 unit of jetbikes
1 heavy support vehicle.
This keeps me within the force org, means I get a nice variety of models and so on.
The solotaire will have to run around on his own, while there is enough for 1 character per squad that can still fit in their transports.
One problem: you have to have a Troupe Master in every squad. It's part of the base unit. Also if you don't want the jetbikes, you can take the Starweavers in the FA slots instead. Just an option in case you don't want the jetbikes (w/out grenades I won't be getting em).
That said, w/out any other units in the army, you're going to need fusion guns. This is bad, because they're hugely over priced for being 6" melta. The range is just awful, and paying what you have to for it is criminal. However, w/out it you can't really do anything to AV 13+ outside of your Troupe masters haywire grenades. The heavy support vehicle isn't going to be able to do much vs. high armor (24" range is going to get it killed early). The jetbikes w/Haywire are actually not a bad unit in a full Harlequin army w/out any allies.
I actually started typing up a tangent about needing allies and such for armor, which I'm pretty convinced is the case, but I'll save it. Instead, I'll say 1-2 fusion guns per squad max (they're to expensive otherwise). With an DE/Eldar ally (how I think most of us will eventually run them), I wouldn't take any of the pistols. They're a lot of points in an already expensive unit that has a very high likelihood of never firing. DE and CWE both have very good long range AT options that will allow your Harlies to do what they do best: rip off faces in HtH.
It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire
2015/02/19 21:10:44
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
I know armour will be an issue. Thats why I was thinking of having the 4 jet bikes with haywire. Also I like the jetbikes models so they have to be in it...
Ok so troupe master in every squad isnt bad, it just changes up my points etc.
The only tank with armour higher than 12 I face is monoliths. The rest is usually Fire Prisms. And the eldar tanks are far easier to kill in melee than to shoot in my experience.
I think the fact im not including allies is what truly makes this force suffer. But I dont mind the challenge. For now anyway.
Say I was to add a minimal force of Dark Eldar, what would I add (I know little of them)?
2015/02/19 21:13:55
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Thanks Dash, I remember seeing that when you first posted it. Very helpful mathhammer.
Now that we have more information, I think we may need to reconsider a couple assumptions in your math. First, we now know the transport only takes 6 models. Thus, 10 man troupes may not be viable (unless you're allying with DE for a Raider). Second, we now know that Harlequins in a Masque and in some formations can move-run-charge after turn 1. I think those two pieces of info swing the pendulum back toward the Embrace, as it's much easier to make base-to-base with only six models and with the additional movement move-run-charge gives you.
6 Harlies in a Starweaver - 6" move on the vehicle, deploy 6", average 4" fleeted run, then average 8" fleeted charge = reliably charge anything within 24" of the Starweaver's starting position. If your target is less than 24" away, you can probably count on making base-to-base with the whole Troupe (barring terrain features such as buildings/impassable terrain). Also keep in mind that the preferred targets of Embraces (Necron Wraiths, Thunderwolf Cavalry, Ork mobs, Khorne dogs, gaunts) tend to come to you.
I'm not saying the Kiss is a bad choice - just that you might want one unit of each so you have the versatility to deal with different kinds of threats.
Edit: more math
Assume 6 Harlequins vs. 20 Ork Boyz. Due to their WS and I, Harlies always strike first and need a 3+ to hit.
6 CCW: Harlies attack 25 times
16 hits, 8 wounds, 1 save. 7 dead orks.
14 Orks attack back, 28 attacks, 14 hits, roughly 9 wounds. Harlies are wiped out.
6 Kiss: Harlies attack 25 times
19 regular attacks, 12 hits, 6 wounds, 5 dead orks
6 kiss attacks, 4 hits, 3-4 wounds, no saves allowed, so 3 or 4 more dead orks.
11 Orks attack back, 22 attacks, 11 hits, roughly 7 wounds. 5 Harlequins die, maybe the Troupe Master survives.
Harlies win combat by 3, but the squad is probably done for the game. If the Orks don't break, they will finish them off next turn.
6 Caress: Harlies attack 25 times
16 hits, 4 of which are auto-wounds at AP2, the other 12 hits turn into 6 wounds. 1 is saved, so 9 dead orks.
11 Orks attack back, same results as above.
6 Embrace: Harlies attack 37 times if they can make base-to-base with all models. Let's say 35 though, assuming 1 model doesn't make it in.
10 S6 HoW hits, 8 wounds, 1 is saved. 6 dead orks.
Harlequins pile in, attack 25 more times. This is just like the CCW example above. 7 more Orks die.
7 Orks are left. They attack back 14 times, hit 7 times. ~4 wounds, conservatively 1 is saved. 3 Harlequins go down.
Harlequins win combat by 10 wounds.
What this is missing is the fact that the Ork boys will be hitting on 5+ at least half of the time because of failed fear tests, therefore, most combats wouldn't end in wipped out harlequins.
That's true, and that will reduce the wounds received by 1/3. But then, if they're choppa boyz, they'll get 3 attacks and you'll take 50% more wounds, so it evens out. There are too many variables, really, to accurately model all the possibilities, so mathhammer is really just illustrative.
Also, on the subject of the pistols: I agree with Dash. They are very expensive, have poor range, and may never be used. In fact, on a turn when you are about to charge (i.e. once you are in range to shoot the pistols) you may not want to fire them for fear of shooting yourself out of charge range. I think it may be best to leave them off unless you want to make a pseudo-Fire Dragon unit that has a primary anti-vehicle role. The jetbikes with haywire cannons will probably do a pretty good job at anti-vehicle (so long as those vehicles aren't flying), but you probably want Eldar allies (of either variety) if you want long-range anti-tank/anti-air.
2015/02/19 21:19:56
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Ok so troupe master in every squad isnt bad, it just changes up my points etc.
Note that the base unit is 4 Players and a Master, so you can still fit them with a character in a Transport. You pay a bit more for him than a Player in the base cost, but you also get a lot for that. +1W and A, and BS5. Makes him far better than your typical 'sergeant' character, give him a Power Sword or even a Kiss and he will be able to beat most MEQ or worse squad leaders in a Challenge, with Wounds to spill over into the rest of the squad.
2015/02/19 21:42:05
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Ok so troupe master in every squad isnt bad, it just changes up my points etc.
Note that the base unit is 4 Players and a Master, so you can still fit them with a character in a Transport. You pay a bit more for him than a Player in the base cost, but you also get a lot for that. +1W and A, and BS5. Makes him far better than your typical 'sergeant' character, give him a Power Sword or even a Kiss and he will be able to beat most MEQ or worse squad leaders in a Challenge, with Wounds to spill over into the rest of the squad.
Im glad for that, means I can make my own troupe leaders, more modeling fun.
Either way my plan for the army doesnt change too much. Probably better off depending on the points.
2015/02/19 21:45:43
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
The Death Jester's ability to move units around could really help with the Skyweavers lack of grenades.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
2015/02/19 21:47:37
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
I'm building around them myself. They sound amazing.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
2015/02/19 21:48:56
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Swastakowey wrote: I know armour will be an issue. Thats why I was thinking of having the 4 jet bikes with haywire. Also I like the jetbikes models so they have to be in it...
Ok so troupe master in every squad isnt bad, it just changes up my points etc.
The only tank with armour higher than 12 I face is monoliths. The rest is usually Fire Prisms. And the eldar tanks are far easier to kill in melee than to shoot in my experience.
I think the fact im not including allies is what truly makes this force suffer. But I dont mind the challenge. For now anyway.
Say I was to add a minimal force of Dark Eldar, what would I add (I know little of them)?
If you're already taking the JB's, then the haywire blaster is the no-brainer take here. You need at least 2 squads of 2 (conveniently the minimum size) to reliably glance an AV13+ tank down, but they should do it pretty reliably. I don't like them because after you blow your 4++ you're jinking the rest of the time....and you can't snap shot the blast. If they had a direct fire option, I'd love em. As is...meh.
For DE allies: Scourges and Razorwings. Take a CAD, 2 squads of warriors in venoms, 2 units of scourges with haywire blasters (120 per unit), 2 Razorwings bare bones. Leaves you plenty of points for a FA Raider that you can put some sort of CC monster in (Tooled up Archon/Succubus/Haemonculus). Drop one of the Starweavers and use the points spared to make a 8-9 man unit to go with the big scary DECC monster in that raider.
Scourges bring even more haywire shots that can DS in wherever you need. Razorwings add anti Air, which you're going to need some help with. Warriors in venoms.....troops tax, though venoms are amazing (and starweaver size) and complement well the Harlies ground presence. My favorite part though is the Archon/CC monster. Archons only have access to AP3 weapons, which is usually an issue when fighting other beatstick HQ's. In an entire squad of AP2 toting Harlies, this problem vanishes.
All told that will run you around 900 pts. Can take fewer scourges if needed, but I'd def get 2 of the razorwings at least. Flyers and FMC are going to be a problem for Harlies more than anything else. AV13 is rare enough you might be able to limp through it, but FMC's are a dime a dozen.
It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire
2015/02/19 21:57:29
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Thats a lot of models though, which means more money and more painting.
No doubt an allied Eldar Alliance will sweep through my club killing all in its wake, but I think I will take my chances with the Harlequins on their own. If they truly struggle then my mates will tone down their lists.
BUT if ever get into the tournament scene you can bet ill be buying some allies for these guys.
Anybody know what the Solitaire does? Does he simply run around beating up weaklings or?
2015/02/19 22:05:18
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Basically, yeah. Plenty of attacks, a once-per-game supermove (D6 equal to the turn you are on, so on T4+ can easily do 12"+ in one go and charge). Has a 3++ and EW to keep him alive (and Stealth+Shrouding in the Heroes formation) and a Caress as standard. Can take Relics.
2015/02/19 22:10:03
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
And don't forget the Solitaire natively has a 12" move, Deep Strike, 6 attacks (which goes up to 10 attacks when blitzing) and Precision Strikes.
Precision Strikes with Caresses are gross - in a good way. "Oh that AM blob is fearless because of the priest? Well, that's too bad, guess I'll roll my 12 blitzing attacks. Oh look, I rolled a 6! The Priest is dead. Hmm... I won combat by 8..."
2015/02/19 22:16:14
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
On checking, only Shadowseers can take that one (which is where I'd put it anyway). The only one he can take is a MC Shred Kiss for 15 points, not that useful. But then he's 145 points base, I'd hesitate to dump more points on him anyway.
Eldarain wrote: I'm building around them myself. They sound amazing.
How are you gonna model them? Having all of them the same pose would kind of suck.
With 3 Coat torso backs in the box you can potentially have 2 spare after building a Troupe (if you give only the Master a coat and the rest normal torsos), so if you can come up with some spare legs/arms and are handy with GS it shouldn't be too hard.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/19 22:18:17
2015/02/19 22:18:59
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Paradigm wrote: On checking, only Shadowseers can take that one (which is where I'd put it anyway). The only one he can take is a MC Shred Kiss for 15 points, not that useful. But then he's 145 points base, I'd hesitate to dump more points on him anyway.
Hmmm, I don't know. Seems like he needs all the help he can get. Realistically, against hordes, the Shred will be invaluable.
Automatically Appended Next Post: I'm still interested in some more opinions on one of my first questions...
Is it feasible to take large groups of 10 on foot with the help of a Shadowseer?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/02/19 22:20:46
'Anyone can win, but it takes a good man to lose.'
-Louis Guzman
2015/02/19 22:21:25
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Eldarain wrote: I'm building around them myself. They sound amazing.
How are you gonna model them? Having all of them the same pose would kind of suck.
1 of each of the new models and then conversions after that. There are some death mask bits from the Dark Elves Executioners I've got my eye on for the Death Jesters. Figure some Eldar/High Elves bits and green stuff hoods should do nicely for the Seers.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
2015/02/19 22:28:00
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Lurker wrote: I'm still interested in some more opinions on one of my first questions...
Is it feasible to take large groups of 10 on foot with the help of a Shadowseer?
I don't know, maybe? It strikes me that they'll have the same problem that ground-based Tyranid MCs do - not mobile enough for a fearsome melee unit. It tends to simplify the opponent's target priority, as they can just shoot down whatever is getting closest. If you can deep strike them in, I could definitely see a foot troop working, but there are only a few ways to do that as Harlequins, and none of them are reliable (i.e. the Light warlord traits and Gate of Infiniti from a Sanctic Shadowseer). An Archon with a WWP would probably be the best choice if you're going this route.
2015/02/19 22:28:59
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Eldarain wrote: I'm building around them myself. They sound amazing.
How are you gonna model them? Having all of them the same pose would kind of suck.
1 of each of the new models and then conversions after that. There are some death mask bits from the Dark Elves Executioners I've got my eye on for the Death Jesters. Figure some Eldar/High Elves bits and green stuff hoods should do nicely for the Seers.
That should look cool, if you manage to do anything with it let me know so I can get ideas should I want to expand my elites section.
Lurker wrote: I'm still interested in some more opinions on one of my first questions...
Is it feasible to take large groups of 10 on foot with the help of a Shadowseer?
I don't know, maybe? It strikes me that they'll have the same problem that ground-based Tyranid MCs do - not mobile enough for a fearsome melee unit. It tends to simplify the opponent's target priority, as they can just shoot down whatever is getting closest. If you can deep strike them in, I could definitely see a foot troop working, but there are only a few ways to do that as Harlequins, and none of them are reliable (i.e. the Light warlord traits and Gate of Infiniti from a Sanctic Shadowseer). An Archon with a WWP would probably be the best choice if you're going this route.
I think transports are needed for these guys unless you are facing another CC army. Which bumps up the price and limits your models, but 6 harlequins zooming into combat is better than a squad of 10 being useless most of the game.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/19 22:30:29
2015/02/19 22:53:38
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Lurker wrote: I'm still interested in some more opinions on one of my first questions...
Is it feasible to take large groups of 10 on foot with the help of a Shadowseer?
I don't know, maybe? It strikes me that they'll have the same problem that ground-based Tyranid MCs do - not mobile enough for a fearsome melee unit. It tends to simplify the opponent's target priority, as they can just shoot down whatever is getting closest. If you can deep strike them in, I could definitely see a foot troop working, but there are only a few ways to do that as Harlequins, and none of them are reliable (i.e. the Light warlord traits and Gate of Infiniti from a Sanctic Shadowseer). An Archon with a WWP would probably be the best choice if you're going this route.
Rather irritatingly, the one thing they are lacking that would really make this work is a reliable, in-codex way to be certain that the unit can either Infiltrate or Deep Strike (or even Scout at a push). That would get them to combat having taken just that bit less firepower, but as said, the only options are a Warlord Trait or a Power, neither of which can be banked upon.
If I were running full Troupes, I'd do it Unbound or take a Realspace Raiders detachment and throw them all in Raiders, 3x10 in a Raider with a Shadowseer or Death Jester would ensure at least something gets through, once you add in a Solitaire running intereference or some Jetbikes/Voidweavers adding fire support. On foot, though, I think they'd work as a one-trick unit as allies, but not neccessarily on their own.
2015/02/19 22:56:44
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Swastakowey wrote:Thats a lot of models though, which means more money and more painting.
No doubt an allied Eldar Alliance will sweep through my club killing all in its wake, but I think I will take my chances with the Harlequins on their own. If they truly struggle then my mates will tone down their lists.
BUT if ever get into the tournament scene you can bet ill be buying some allies for these guys.
Anybody know what the Solitaire does? Does he simply run around beating up weaklings or?
Truth, but it's actually not that bad. Scourges are $35 for 5, Venoms are 35 a piece, warriors are cheap and plentiful online, and RW are 45 a piece. I'd proxy them a bit, cause I think you'll find they're going to have some pretty amazing synergy (esp. scourges and RW's)
Lurker wrote:
Paradigm wrote: On checking, only Shadowseers can take that one (which is where I'd put it anyway). The only one he can take is a MC Shred Kiss for 15 points, not that useful. But then he's 145 points base, I'd hesitate to dump more points on him anyway.
Hmmm, I don't know. Seems like he needs all the help he can get. Realistically, against hordes, the Shred will be invaluable.
I'd consider the MC kiss for the Solitaire. It's only 15 points, and is great in hordes and challenges. A garunteed Ap2 wound with possible ID + ~ 5 more armor saves can make him a beast against anything not rocking a 2+. For 2+ you'd probably stick with the caress. Anywho, if you have a spare 15 points it'd be ok. If you need 15 pts, it'd likely be the first thing I'd cut.
Lurker wrote:
I'm still interested in some more opinions on one of my first questions...
Is it feasible to take large groups of 10 on foot with the help of a Shadowseer?
A large troupe is definitely doable, but probably not with Shadowseer's alone.[b] You'd want at least 2/3 ML2's to guarantee Stealth/Shroud, and even then you'd need to hug cover (availability can be an issue) to give them the durability they'd need.
Allying in a couple of Farseers would make it completely doable. Invis and/or fortune would take their durability to where it would need to be. In addition, Farseers are one of the best buffing units in the game and the rest of your army would benefit from their presence as well. 2 Farseers on jetbikes + 2 minimum sized units of guardian jetbikes (one of the best objective secured troops in the game) =~ 400 pts. And more importantly, 8 models total.
Something to think about.
It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire
2015/02/19 23:00:20
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
We pay almost double for kits here over your country. So it adds up quickly. Its why I dont delve too much into GW products without buying over seas. Which is a hassle.
Having large troupes will only be worth it with allies. But I think a harlequin force needs to focus on fast hard hitting smaller numbers with a focus on reliability.
2015/02/19 23:17:22
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
The big blob doesn't need the stealth/shrouded. Their primaris makes them immune to any shot >24" away. That plus ignoring terrain, and the ability to run and then charge starting on turn 2, they should be able to get where you need them to anyway.
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: The big blob doesn't need the stealth/shrouded. Their primaris makes them immune to any shot >24" away. That plus ignoring terrain, and the ability to run and then charge starting on turn 2, they should be able to get where you need them to anyway.
Completely disagree. 250 + points in a squad with a 5+ save and T3, I wouldn't dare bank on Veil saving them. Your opponent might only get one chance to shoot, but it'll be more than enough to wipe them out or neuter them.
It is forbidden to kill; therefore all murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets.
Voltaire
2015/02/19 23:24:47
Subject: Harlequin Stand Alone (and as Allies) Tactical Thread
Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote: The big blob doesn't need the stealth/shrouded. Their primaris makes them immune to any shot >24" away. That plus ignoring terrain, and the ability to run and then charge starting on turn 2, they should be able to get where you need them to anyway.
Completely disagree. 250 + points in a squad with a 5+ save and T3, I wouldn't dare bank on Veil saving them. Your opponent might only get one chance to shoot, but it'll be more than enough to wipe them out or neuter them.
Yeah, opponent flies up one Flyrant, unloads 12 TL Devourer shots into the squad at 6" or less. Probably looking at 9-10 wounds in that situation.
