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I've been a marine player for most of my history in 40k. Almost all of my armies used to use 2 5 man tacs with las cannons and no transports. Then I got 2 LSS with scouts and put the tacs away. LSS are good enough that I don't view them as a tax because their chance of getting their points back is actually pretty high when I give the Sargent melta bombs and a combi melta.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
...my Dark Angels will be built with pretty much everything being built as Troops because of Azrael.

And then GW will release a new DA codex where Azrael no longer makes wings troops because of Unbound. Seriously I gave up on planning future armies as you cant rely on rules having a constant points or even a direction unless it's crap like IGOUGO without interruption mechanism or shooting into cc not being allowed. Now I only buy what I like if avilable second hand and play what I have. They force you into the whole collection thing fast but sorry Im out. Well I saved myself a lot of money on models I'll never buy so thanks GW I guess.

I run Tau, Necrons and Blood Angels. So I love troops.

I normally run about 50-60 Necrons Warriors, 48 Tau Firewarriors with one Fireblade Cadre, and I used to run a 90 troop Blood angels list. I would not give the heavy weapons unit any heavy weapons. Troops over all are the best point units in the game and you can really amass a lot of firepower and wounds.

I like troops. Imperial Guardsmen are pretty nice weapon carriers, Dire Avengers have rending Bolters, Tactical Marines are useful objective campers and let's not even talk about Windrider Jetbikes.

Grey Knight Terminators, best Troop choice in the game.

SJ

The Necron Decurion formation certainly makes it advantageous to loud up on troops.

If you could take 2 special weapons in a 10-man tactical squad, I'd be all over 3 in every SM list. Alas, you cannot.

Why you say this! Cultists were my best friends, but then they had to charge flayed ones to buy my Berzerkers some time... Poor Billy he didn't stand a chance! *Starts Sobbing* WHY DID IT HAVE TO END THIS WAY!
But seriously it entirely depends which army, for Chaos our OBSCENELY high point cost per model makes cultists amazingly cheap bodies to keep on the field, able to tarpit or distract units to allow your specialists to get their job done

I really want to play an all-Ravenwing DA army with bikes as troops, but I don't have the money to spend on all those bikes! Maybe when I get my tax return I'll look into it if the Sammael on Jetbike model ever stops being out of stock. Back on topic, DA have several options to make things other than tacticals and scouts troops (which is good since our scouts cant have the aforementioned LSS). Even standard Land Speeders can be troops when taken as part of a Ravenwing attack squadron if Sammael or Azrael is in the list. Fast Objective Secured Skimmers? Yes, please!

Hey man, IG veterans are the best elit...I mean best value troops in the game!

 ZergSmasher wrote:
I really want to play an all-Ravenwing DA army with bikes as troops, but I don't have the money to spend on all those bikes! Maybe when I get my tax return I'll look into it if the Sammael on Jetbike model ever stops being out of stock. Back on topic, DA have several options to make things other than tacticals and scouts troops (which is good since our scouts cant have the aforementioned LSS). Even standard Land Speeders can be troops when taken as part of a Ravenwing attack squadron if Sammael or Azrael is in the list. Fast Objective Secured Skimmers? Yes, please!

Check here- they have the Dark Vengeance ones for 15 bucks for three, which makes a Ravenwing a pretty damn palatable idea if all you have to do is buy other bits for weapons options:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/40K-Dark-Vengeance-Dark-Angels-Ravenwing-Bike-Squad-Bits-3-Bitz-S-/191516261700?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c97423d44

 kronk wrote:
If you could take 2 special weapons in a 10-man tactical squad, I'd be all over 3 in every SM list. Alas, you cannot.

It's literally the easiest fix for Tactical Marines to be more appealing. I say that over and over (though Heavy Flamers would be nice, seeing as Blood Angels get them but Salamanders don't...)

Troops fill a very important role in the Imperial Guard - after all a single one of our troops choices can have over 130 bodies, only the worst riptide spam has a chance of killing them all before turn 6

And if you do it right you can have two of those in a 500 point game, I know I have only been outnumbered once and that was another IG player

How often do you think your actually going to totally table your opponent? If you think you can do it every single game and actually do it, then you dont need troops. However, you may need to find opponents who are better players.
I have no problem taking troops and i have some of the weakest ones in the game. This because I understand the concept of using them to their strengths and making effective decisions in games. I dont win every game but I win more than I lose.
The thing you want to think about is do you really want to spend all your time complaining about "having to take them" and not enjoying the game or do you want to learn to use them effectively and enjoy the game?

 EVIL INC wrote:
How often do you think your actually going to totally table your opponent? If you think you can do it every single game and actually do it, then you dont need troops.

You do realize that everything scores in 7th, right?

I use tacticals with heavy weapons (Missile launchers or lascannons). They are good for home objectives.

 Peregrine wrote:

 EVIL INC wrote:
How often do you think your actually going to totally table your opponent? If you think you can do it every single game and actually do it, then you dont need troops.

You do realize that everything scores in 7th, right?

I'm well aware that everything "scores in 7th". thats why I pointed that out myself. However, i had thought I read about some sorta rule like objective secured or something like that where troops choices were better at it than non-troop choices. I had not realized they had ditched that so soon. For some reason, I thought that was a current rule.

Draco, your right. that is exactly the sort of way you can maximize their effectiveness. Combat squads allow one slot to claim 2 objectives. if you have a few, you can layer them to provide extra cheap coverage that can take pot shots at enemy and stand up to most attackers.

 EVIL INC wrote:
I'm well aware that everything "scores in 7th". thats why I pointed that out myself. However, i had thought I read about some sorta rule like objective secured or something like that where troops choices were better at it than non-troop choices. I had not realized they had ditched that so soon. For some reason, I thought that was a current rule.

You know, it's funny how someone who cares so much about rule #1 that they have to mention it in their signature doesn't seem to have any problem making sarcastic posts (or making stuff up about "pointing it out yourself" when you did no such thing). It's almost like for you the forum rules are just an opportunity to provoke people and "win" the argument...

Anyway, "objective secured" doesn't change the point I was making: that your "you need troops unless you're going to table your opponent every game" claim is just laughably wrong in 7th. Objective secured is a rule that doesn't come up all that often, most of the time units without it are sufficient to win the game. And don't forget that taking fewer troops often means doing a better job of killing opposing scoring units and leaving your own in uncontested control of objectives. There are plenty of viable strategies that win the game by scoring objectives without investing in troops, and tabling is only a tiny and mostly irrelevant part of that.

I use Iyanden, so troops are awesome.
That being said I do actually like the troops of pretty much all the codices. I think it's good to still have a decent core of them and to strengthen that with others. Everything is scoring, but troops with objective secured can be useful for denying.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Grey Knight Terminators, best Troop choice in the game.

SJ

They are okay but not great. Much rather have AM vets in a chimera or Necron Immortals.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 kronk wrote:
If you could take 2 special weapons in a 10-man tactical squad, I'd be all over 3 in every SM list. Alas, you cannot.

It's literally the easiest fix for Tactical Marines to be more appealing. I say that over and over (though Heavy Flamers would be nice, seeing as Blood Angels get them but Salamanders don't...)

Exactly. If Chaos can, why can't my Imperial Fists?

Jerks.

CSM: I hate regular CSM as they're awful. Plague Marines are good, but pricy, and I need a lord to unlock them. Cultists are good, but are often a tax more than anything.

Daemons: Horrors are great, Nurglings are good, Daemonettes are decent

IG: Both Veterans and Platoons are good but play very differently. I dislike having to take the PCS-tax, but blob guard is a lot of fun to play. Just gotta use orders and other strength multipliers properly (good thing our psykers get Divination, eh?)

Renegades: Plague Zombies are excellent, but require me to make my demagogue my WL. Mutant Rabble are cultists just better (cheaper with better options for upgrades). Infantry Squads seem really good with the new Vraks-formation where destroyed units come back on a 2+, but I haven't had the chance to try it nor do I own enough models to do it the way I think will be the most efficient.

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Grey Knight Terminators, best Troop choice in the game.

SJ

No way. Ork Boyz. Best troops in the game.

I wish inquisition got troops. Then I can run MSU henchmen again XD

I think Objective Secured has come up once for me in a game, and my opponent was the one to point out that I got that benefit. Honestly, I don't think I've ever gone "Darn, if only I had a Tactical/Bike/Scout squad there to secure that objective!"

I mean, considering that you draw and score on your turn, it's not come up often.

That being said, I have only played two eternal war missions since 7th came out.

I'm not a big fan of troops. I usually take them more for the transport than what they can do (serpents and pods). With everything scoring, AP2 weapons everywhere, more OP big models coming out, etc I just haven't found troops very useful.

The 55pt spawn I just used in my last battle turned out to be one of the most effective units I've ever used for their points.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
(They're troops btw)

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 kronk wrote:
If you could take 2 special weapons in a 10-man tactical squad, I'd be all over 3 in every SM list. Alas, you cannot.

It's literally the easiest fix for Tactical Marines to be more appealing. I say that over and over (though Heavy Flamers would be nice, seeing as Blood Angels get them but Salamanders don't...)

Just use your Marines as Battle Sisters then. Cheaper per model and they get double specials. Oh, and a 6++ so you can occasionally shrug off the deluge of AP3 Ignores Cover.

Both on my Blood Angels and Harlequins - hell yes.

With BA, Tacticals can equip arguably one of best heavy choices in-game - Heavy Flamer, as well as they are versatile and solid army choice by themselves - one which can stand both in shooting as well as in assault (thanks to glorious Furious Charge).
And Harlequin Troupes - no words needed, just look on dem crispy detailed models and amazing CC weaponry

My armored battlegroup hinges on my siege tank and battle tank squadrons.