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So with the release of the Harlequin codex I've been thinking of how to best abuse shadowseers being IC's, and Dark Reapers immediately came to mind. With Veil of Tears being primaris, your Dark Reapers can pretty reliably sit at the back of the board and erase units at will.

Now, at nearly 40 ppm (w/Starshot) they are extremely expensive and fragile, which is why they are rarely seen now. But with Veil essentially saving them from anything further than 24" out, the durability increases considerably. With Flyrant spam becoming increasingly present, WS spam always a threat, and biker armies everywhere they'll nearly always have a target they can take out to cripple your opponent. One turn of firing at these kinds of high value targets will nearly always net your points back, and Veil will nearly garuntee you two such turns of shooting.

So two questions: A) With the Harliquins restrictive formations/detachment what's the best way to get a Shadowseer in your army without sinking so many points in that you can't field a viable army? B) Even with veil, are the DR's too vulnerable/expensive to build a list around?

While I don't have enough knowledge of the Harlequin book to comment much, I will remind you to add the cost of the Shadowseer to the Reapers in determining their efficiency / survivability per point.

Putside of Unbound, the cheapest way you are getting a Shadowseer is to take the Lonely Path formation, which is 1 each of a Shadowseer, Solitaire and Death Jester, all of which get Infiltrate, Stealth and Shrouding. I believe this works out in the region of 260 points before upgrades, but it's not bad; the DJ is awesome going solo or with some Reapers, and the Solitaire makes a nice missile. As Stealth and Shrouded are confered to the unit, your Reapers are also getting a +3 bonus to their cover save for free, essentially.

obsidiankatana wrote:While I don't have enough knowledge of the Harlequin book to comment much, I will remind you to add the cost of the Shadowseer to the Reapers in determining their efficiency / survivability per point.

Most of the relevant leakage is in the OP: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/628189.page

Certainly, will include the Shadowseer's cost, but at 60 points (ML1) it's not at all a huge investment given the benefit. Being able to dictate your opponents movements is a huge advantage, and most people will have to mobilize to deal with them. True, honest-to-god MSU is really the only type list that can afford to ignore them. Everyone else has 1/2 units that the reapers can/will destroy, which would cripple your opponent (flyrants, WL's, WS's, etc.).

It's tax of FA/Heavies/Troupes that I'm worried about .....

Paradigm wrote:Putside of Unbound, the cheapest way you are getting a Shadowseer is to take the Lonely Path formation, which is 1 each of a Shadowseer, Solitaire and Death Jester, all of which get Infiltrate, Stealth and Shrouding. I believe this works out in the region of 260 points before upgrades, but it's not bad; the DJ is awesome going solo or with some Reapers, and the Solitaire makes a nice missile. As Stealth and Shrouded are confered to the unit, your Reapers are also getting a +3 bonus to their cover save for free, essentially.

Cheapest, but not useful in this scenario:
"way of heroes"
1 DS, 1 SS, 1 Solitaire

Restrictions:none

Special rules:
- Infiltrate
- shrouded
- stealth
- a lonesome path (models from this formation cannot join other units and no one can join them) (emphasis mine)

Characters can't join a unit, and veil works on the Shadowseer and their unit. Same goes for "company of actors"- the troupe + DJ + SS. DJ and SS can't detach, so no love there either.

Cheapest way I can think is to simply take the detachment (3 troupes, 2 FA 1 Heavy manditory). 3 min sized troupes w/no upgrades, use Starweavers for 2 manditory FA slots, one Voidweaver b/c you have to. Then grab 1-2 shadowseers. Still comes out to ~550, and that's barebones outside ML2 for seers. Add on another 110 for an additional Starweaver and kisses for all your harlies, and it becomes a pretty large investment. While I know DR's will benefit greatly from Veil, using 1/3 of your points to do it seems very steep, especially when you consider that all the units you're wanting the DR's for are units your Harlies aren't particularly great against. Just not a ton of synergy.

Can Harlequins not be taken in traditional detachments? i.e. - Allied (1 HQ 1 Troop)?

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Can Harlequins not be taken in traditional detachments? i.e. - Allied (1 HQ 1 Troop)?

So far, no simply because they don't have an HQ choice. W/o an HQ you can't use them as a CAD or Ally.

It's a really neat fluffy idea, but is making joining them to CWE/DE very annoying.

Seems like a 55 point bunker/fortification is a much better place to put dark reapers. Immune to S7 or less, immune to grav weapons.

 Dash2021 wrote:

- a lonesome path (models from this formation cannot join other units and no one can join them) (emphasis mine)

Characters can't join a unit, and veil works on the Shadowseer and their unit. Same goes for "company of actors"- the troupe + DJ + SS. DJ and SS can't detach, so no love there either.

Cheapest way I can think is to simply take the detachment (3 troupes, 2 FA 1 Heavy manditory). 3 min sized troupes w/no upgrades, use Starweavers for 2 manditory FA slots, one Voidweaver b/c you have to. Then grab 1-2 shadowseers. Still comes out to ~550, and that's barebones outside ML2 for seers. Add on another 110 for an additional Starweaver and kisses for all your harlies, and it becomes a pretty large investment. While I know DR's will benefit greatly from Veil, using 1/3 of your points to do it seems very steep, especially when you consider that all the units you're wanting the DR's for are units your Harlies aren't particularly great against. Just not a ton of synergy.

Ah, missed that. In that case, I reckon Unbound is your best bet, depending on how much you value ObSec. That way, you can take any of the Harlie stuff you want without being shoehorned into a Formation with a lot of dead weight, and still take full advantage of what you bring.

 Paradigm wrote:

 Dash2021 wrote:

- a lonesome path (models from this formation cannot join other units and no one can join them) (emphasis mine)

Characters can't join a unit, and veil works on the Shadowseer and their unit. Same goes for "company of actors"- the troupe + DJ + SS. DJ and SS can't detach, so no love there either.

Cheapest way I can think is to simply take the detachment (3 troupes, 2 FA 1 Heavy manditory). 3 min sized troupes w/no upgrades, use Starweavers for 2 manditory FA slots, one Voidweaver b/c you have to. Then grab 1-2 shadowseers. Still comes out to ~550, and that's barebones outside ML2 for seers. Add on another 110 for an additional Starweaver and kisses for all your harlies, and it becomes a pretty large investment. While I know DR's will benefit greatly from Veil, using 1/3 of your points to do it seems very steep, especially when you consider that all the units you're wanting the DR's for are units your Harlies aren't particularly great against. Just not a ton of synergy.

Ah, missed that. In that case, I reckon Unbound is your best bet, depending on how much you value ObSec. That way, you can take any of the Harlie stuff you want without being shoehorned into a Formation with a lot of dead weight, and still take full advantage of what you bring.

There's no Harlequin HQ, so you're not getting ObSec no matter what you do. Also, for a lot of people Unbound might as well not exist.

Assuming Battle Forged, the Formation that makes you take a Solitaire, 3 Shadowseers, 3 Deathjesters, 3 Troupes, 2 Skyweavers, and a Voidweaver is fairly decent. You won't be stomping through the tournament scene, but you get some pretty nice tricks and possibilities for combos (command benefits are charge after running, re-rolling warlord traits on the Harlequin tables, and re-rolling invul saves of 1). It also gives you a decent number of Deathjesters and Shadowseers (more than three of each, and your already small army is starting to become silly).

ObSEc on the rest of the army, which you can still get if you take only Harlie formations or detachments. But that's a trade I think I'd happily make to add a small detachment of Harlequins without going all-out on a Detachment or being limited by a formation.

HawaiiMatt wrote:Seems like a 55 point bunker/fortification is a much better place to put dark reapers. Immune to S7 or less, immune to grav weapons.

True enough, but inside a bunker they're static and prone to being LoS'd. Shadowseer allows them mobility to keep putting pressure on. Also can't cast powers on them while they're embarked, and being that many points of heavy fire you're going to want to guide them.

Not saying you're wrong about it being point for point more efficient at protect them (pretty sure you're right). But as I'm allying in Harlies anyway, trying to figure out if getting the shadowseer with the reapers is going slightly out of the way or huge point sink.