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Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






My friend has a Chaos Space Marine list, his first army and is still learning the game. So far he's lost every game he has played and is beyond frustrated. His tactics are dreadful and that's a HUGE factor and without a steady enough income, he's very limited on buying things. I'll add that points don't matter. I have enough models that I can play at any point level up to 2000 and will make lists according to the points he lands at. So far, here's what he has.

Chaos Lord - MoN, Power Sword

7x Plague Marines - Power Sword, Plasma gun
Rhino w/ Havoc Launcher

20~ Cultists - 13 Autoguns or some such random number. Sometimes split in two squads of ten.

10x Raptors - 2x Flamers, Power Sword, Mark of Slannesh, Icon of Excess (he's treating these like pseudo Death Company and trying to assassinate some of my backfield units when he Deep Strikes in)

Land Raider

Nothing powerful, nothing all that useful. He's facing lists of Blood Angels (10 Death Company Jump Packs and 6 normal Terminators), Tyranids (one Flyrant, two Carnifex) and Eldar (one Wave Serpent, 8 Dark Eldar Reavers) and simply can't get a leg up. He can pick up Dark Vengeance and that's been what I've been suggesting. Making some modifications for the Chosen included there to have more Melta (with bitz he got from the Raptors and Plague boxes) and a nice blob of Helcult. Since he's not ready to play against other opponents that are less understanding of his rule screw-ups, I'm pretty much his only opponent. Last game he also used my Eldar in something of a 2000pt team game and even then my Blood Angels lost four models total and I was up 7 to nil on Turn 3. Again, a lot of it is tactics that he's failing to grasp but there must be some quick, dirty and cheap way to get SOMETHING on the table that can deal some damage. Some broken unit either through !A 13 or in the codex that can really help or some easy-to-add upgrade that doesn't alter models much and can do something. What's the Holy Grail needed that can be considered 'easy mode' for his list?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/20 10:30:27


 
   
Made in my
Veteran Knight Baron in a Crusader






At my desk

If he's tired of losing, he needs something with more punch, my suggestions are:

MoN lord: Great choice, maybe get him a Murder Sword or Burning Brand (I would say black mace, but that's a lot of points on 3+ save)

Plague marines: Another great choice, hard to kill with good shooting and decent assault ability, a Rhino is good for them but, if he's low on cash maybe find a proxy? - if not, foot-slogging them is fine too

20 Cultists: Can't go wrong with a big blob of cultists. I prefer autoguns personally, but that's his choice.

Raptors: I'd say no, unless he loves the model, they don't tend to do much.

Land Raider: Decent, can do well, can be a waste, (If he does get Dark Vengeance and converts the Death Wing Terminators to chaos, they'll do very nicely), but I'd never say no to bunch of Lascannons in a list with otherwise very limited anti-tank.

As for his tactics being terrible, I can't help there.

3000pts Blood Angels (4th Company) - 2000pts Skitarii (Voss Prime) - 2500pts Imperial Knights (Unnamed House) - 1000pts Imperial Guard (Household Retainers)

2000pts Free Peoples (Edlynd Fusiliers) - 2000pts Kharadron Overlords (Barak Zilfin) - 500pts Ironweld Arsenal (Edlynd Ironwork Federation) - 1000pts Duardin (Grongrok Powderheads)

Wargaming's no fun when you have a plan! 
   
Made in us
Homicidal Veteran Blood Angel Assault Marine






NJ, USA

I would start with a base of:
2x Plague Marine Squads w/Rhino (Havoc Launchers/Dirge Casters Optional)
MoN Chaos Lord decked for CC
Some Sort of Heavy Support (Chaos Pred?)

From there expand to taste...
-More Troops
-Demons
-LR
-Termies
-Hellcult

He needs a solid base before expanding, I also recommend downgrade the game down to 500 points, and "let" him win a bit. Winning boosts confidence and will encourage him to play again, it is the only way I have found to foster the love of 40k in new players. I typically always use my Ork Horde for 500 points, it allows new players to field any of my other armies and basically shoot me to death, they take much joy in watching me remove lots of models.


An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded

Starter 40k Army Lists for Beginners!

One Chapter to rule them all: SW to BA Conversion  
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





If you're gonna go with Raptors, you might as well take bikes instead, and if you're gonna take bikes, tou might as well just take Spawn instead.

Lately I've been using 2 CAD detachments (no self-allying with the Allied Detachment, people who do that aren't reading the rules properly) and maxing out on Fast Attack with 2 units of soawn, bikes, raptors, and 2 Heldrakes. Then Obliterators for Heavy Support. These seem to be the gems of the codex, with Sorcerers.

Also keep in mind that Chaos is no. 1., Random, and no.2, the bad guys, so it is a very Thematic army with a handicap compared to other factions. Your friend must accept that Chaos will lose alot of battles. Playing a different army for a few games really shaped up what the Chaos codex has to offer for me. Maybe swap armies and play it against him to see their potential and limitations.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Nightlord1987 wrote:
If you're gonna go with Raptors, you might as well take bikes instead, and if you're gonna take bikes, tou might as well just take Spawn instead.

Lately I've been using 2 CAD detachments (no self-allying with the Allied Detachment, people who do that aren't reading the rules properly) and maxing out on Fast Attack with 2 units of soawn, bikes, raptors, and 2 Heldrakes. Then Obliterators for Heavy Support. These seem to be the gems of the codex, with Sorcerers.

Also keep in mind that Chaos is no. 1., Random, and no.2, the bad guys, so it is a very Thematic army with a handicap compared to other factions. Your friend must accept that Chaos will lose alot of battles. Playing a different army for a few games really shaped up what the Chaos codex has to offer for me. Maybe swap armies and play it against him to see their potential and limitations.



You could self-ally with Crimson Slaughter. CSM and CS are battle brothers. This lets you get around having to take 2 CAD for tourneys that don't allow it.

Tier 1 is the new Tactical.

My IDF-Themed Guard Army P&M Blog:

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/355940.page 
   
Made in gb
Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch




Huddersfield

The Black Legion Codex also specifically states they can be taken as allies to Chaos Space Marines.
   
Made in us
Oozing Plague Marine Terminator





Not with the Allied Detachment that specifies it CANNOT be the same faction as your primary.

You can ally according to the chart being battle brothers with two Combined Arms Detachments, but you can't use the specific Allied Detachment listed in the BRB.

Remember that you can take as many CAD detachments as you want, from different factions.

The "clause" in their supplements is for the previous edition that had no other detachments to take. Right now, in 7th edition, this is a given. It DOES NOT say you're allowed to use the Allied Detachment chart, it says you can be allies.

Loyalists are given explicit permission to with their FAQ.

No such FAQ exists for Chaos.
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon






Yeah, I wrote a competitive list for him that he just won't or can't buy. He hasn't found the glorious mecha known as EBay and bought nearly everything on his list despite having the the traditional competitive Nurgle list as his shopping list. He got the Plague Marines and Cultists and then bought things willy nilly... I've been offering to swap armies and I'm not sure why he doesn't anymore since he learned the game with my armies...

I think the issue is really going to come down to him being unable to afford the hobby. Bikes and Spawn are what I told him to get from the start, but Raptors were in stock when he went somewhere for a gift. And since he got the Raptors, he didn't have the money for bikes.

But no, you can't self ally, Nightlord is completely right about that. Crimson Slaughter and Black Legion can /ally/ but they can not use the Allied Detachment with a Primary of Chaos Space Marines. They can ally using a CAD or other Detachment option, but not the Allied Detachment.
   
 
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