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rigeld2 wrote:

 DarkLink wrote:
He basically argued a ton of really stupid rules. As an example, the bike player at one point split Khan off of one unit of bikes, then strung out a unit of bikes to end their movment within 2" of Khan to join them to the squad. Geoff had some something like "Khan can't join that unit, IC's have to join that unit, the unit can't join the IC". The guy next to me literally looked at me and said "WTF? They just have to end in coherency, is this guy serious?" If this were a new player, sure, but for someone on the top tables, and the way he tried to argue it?

Considering the rules say...

In order to join a unit, an Independent Character simply has to move so that he is within the 2" unit coherency distance of a friendly unit at the end of their Movement phase.

Not going to argue it further, just wanted to point it out.

.... sigh......

I would have just ignored him and kept playing... or if I was feeling particularly feth-ish I would take forever to move the rest of my units into my maelstrom objective to cut time. Messed up - yes, does someone like that deserve it - most likely yes.

 Brothererekose wrote:
Still looking to find out who got Best Paint and such. Anyone got a link?

I *did* watch the twitch feed, but missed them when I went AFK during the boring parts where names were announced, and then Reece shrugged and placed the paper on the table.

Israel's Tau got the top army. I don't have a link but I was there when he got the award. His Tau were gorgeous.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DarkLink wrote:
He basically argued a ton of really stupid rules. As an example, the bike player at one point split Khan off of one unit of bikes, then strung out a unit of bikes to end their movment within 2" of Khan to join them to the squad. Geoff had some something like "Khan can't join that unit, IC's have to join that unit, the unit can't join the IC". The guy next to me literally looked at me and said "WTF? They just have to end in coherency, is this guy serious?" If this were a new player, sure, but for someone on the top tables, and the way he tried to argue it?

Considering the rules say...

In order to join a unit, an Independent Character simply has to move so that he is within the 2" unit coherency distance of a friendly unit at the end of their Movement phase.

Not going to argue it further, just wanted to point it out.

Just to clarify, the geoff tried to claim that even though Khan did end his move within 2" of the new unit, that Khan was not allowed to join the unit and was out on his own for... reasons? As you mention, Khan was clearly attached to the unit.


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Warmonger2757 wrote:

 Brothererekose wrote:
Still looking to find out who got Best Paint and such. Anyone got a link?

I *did* watch the twitch feed, but missed them when I went AFK during the boring parts where names were announced, and then Reece shrugged and placed the paper on the table.

Israel's Tau got the top army. I don't have a link but I was there when he got the award. His Tau were gorgeous.

Oh, yes. His displayboard is great, too, though it's a little too "busy" in my opinion. Distracts from the models.

PanzerLeader wrote:
@tag883, @krootman: I think my proposed solution for Lynx's is the following: replace the Holofields rule with "Any model with holofields has a 5+ invulnerable save. This save increases to a 4+ if the model moved in the previous turn." What do you guys think having played them multiple times as well?

Having played two lists with Lynx, I'm not sure that would even make a difference. Giving it an invul is pointless, especially since most people with a Lynx were putting it on skyshields anyway. All you do at that point is save them the 75pts for the sky shield. I think the titan fields should just be a cover save instead of an invul. At least it would be threatened in melee and force the eldar player to at least turn it to a zooming flyer for a turn and not be able to use the pulsar.

Amishprn86 wrote:
yeah.. my 60 H-gants, 80 T-gants with 60 Goyles are doing NOTHING right now at all...... what a shame.

I hear that I have 100 guants sitting there lol, one day...one day....

PanzerLeader wrote:@tag883, @krootman: I think my proposed solution for Lynx's is the following: replace the Holofields rule with "Any model with holofields has a 5+ invulnerable save. This save increases to a 4+ if the model moved in the previous turn." What do you guys think having played them multiple times as well?

Eh we were talking about it, they are either too powerful or you make them suck. The nice thing after adepticon I don't have to worry about them for awhile.

Israel's Tau got the top army. I don't have a link but I was there when he got the award. His Tau were gorgeous.



fidel
Post 2015/02/24 10:55:15 Subject: Re:Las Vegas Open (LVO) Discussion Thread





rigeld2 wrote:


DarkLink wrote:
He basically argued a ton of really stupid rules. As an example, the bike player at one point split Khan off of one unit of bikes, then strung out a unit of bikes to end their movment within 2" of Khan to join them to the squad. Geoff had some something like "Khan can't join that unit, IC's have to join that unit, the unit can't join the IC". The guy next to me literally looked at me and said "WTF? They just have to end in coherency, is this guy serious?" If this were a new player, sure, but for someone on the top tables, and the way he tried to argue it?

Considering the rules say...


In order to join a unit, an Independent Character simply has to move so that he is within the 2" unit coherency distance of a friendly unit at the end of their Movement phase.


Not going to argue it further, just wanted to point it out.

.... sigh......

I would have just ignored him and kept playing... or if I was feeling particularly feth-ish I would take forever to move the rest of my units into my maelstrom objective to cut time. Messed up - yes, does someone like that deserve it - most likely yes

.

According to the rule you quoted Geoff was correct. It says the independent character has to MOVE within 2" of a unit. If he ended his movement phase, and was not within 2" of a unit he can't join. that is pretty clear to me. It would have to say something like end his turn within 2" for it to work the way you guys want it to.

Considering how many times things moved more the 6" in that last game and needed to be corrected, one would think that was the more basic rule being ignored/forgotten/whatever.

I gave him the benefit of the doubt that each time things moved more than 6" that it was an honest mistake, even though it kept happening after the first time.

There was much arguing coming from the other side of the table against the *judges* rulings on rules like "no super heavies on top level of ruins", putting guys that rolled right side on outflank on the right side of the table VS the left, and losing warlord trait abilities after I killed their warlord, yet it seems like only one side of the table was allowed to engage the judges, or ask the opponent questions about their units without being called a bad sport for it.


I was asked what my artillery did, so its surprising that asking for a reminder of all *3* of a thunder fires fire modes is frowned upon and worthy of derision or a poor sportsmanship public shaming session.

I had to make steve sisk in the prior game double check that his knight only had 3 attacks vs 4, had I not spoken up, he would have rolled the extra dice. Again, benefit of the doubt was given and I believe *deserved* in this case as I think it was an honest mistake, its a basic rule, but we are all human, we make basic mistakes, especially when stress/tiredness/alcohol are involved. I could get all nerd rage as some are in this thread about having to correct people on their units stats, but thats just not who I am. He made a mistake, I corrected him, end of story. DId he make this mistake all weekend? who knows, stuff happens, its man dollies, have fun and try not to take it so seriously.

Many people interpret the rules differently, especially in different metas, so asking for an impartial ruling or clarification is part of the game. Calling out one side as a poor sport for asking questions, while not the other, is a bit off to me. During the course of the weekend, I caught people with over pt lists, who shot more then what was listed in profiles, putting 5 dudes on the table instead of 4, and much more. Heck, I had my models broken on several occasions by careless opponents.

the only person I thumbed down was someone who yelled at me quite rudely for "slow playing" him despite being at the bottom of turn 5 with 20 min to go to complete turn 6 with.



I approached Reece and he told me not to worry about it as the complaints didn't actually meet the criteria for poor sportsmanship.

He said that they were likely just tired/stressed and were taking things a bit too seriously. Had he felt it was an issue, Im sure he would have said so.

 DarkLink wrote:

Just to clarify, the geoff tried to claim that even though Khan did end his move within 2" of the new unit, that Khan was not allowed to join the unit and was out on his own for... reasons? As you mention, Khan was clearly attached to the unit.
.

no, thats not clarity, as thats not what happened.

Khan did not end his move within 2" of another unit, he ended his move 10" away from a unit, then the the UNIT he wanted to join to moved to khan after khan had moved, so it was a unit moving to the IC, not the IC moving to the unit.

As rigel pointed out, what the BRB says it is the IC ends their move within 2", not that the unit being joined does. My interpretation is that IC's can join the unit by moving within 2", not that units can join IC's by moving within 2" Its a fair question to ask, took less then a minute and I didn't argue with the judges call on that one as I can see how the rule might interpreted differently.

 ChainswordHeretic wrote:

According to the rule you quoted Geoff was correct. It says the independent character has to MOVE within 2" of a unit. If he ended his movement phase and was not within 2" of a unit he can't join that is pretty clear to me. It would have to say something like end his turn within 2" for it to work the way you guys want it to.

No, it says he has to move in such a way as to end the movement phase within 2" of the unit.

Had a great time at LVO. Ended up 4-1-1 with a tie to Steve and a loss to Vince. Couple dice going the other way in either game and I think I would have made it on to day 3 (of course, I also had a few games where a few dice the other way would have meant I'd lose!). Had fun in every game I played, a lot of tough ones against great opponents both on the table and off.

Can't be too upset though walking away with best Necrons in the swansong event for the old book.

Was great to get to meet a lot of west coasters I hadn't previously had the pleasure of playing with or getting to know. Thanks to Reece, Frankie, and everyone else involved.

 morgendonner wrote:
Had a great time at LVO. Ended up 4-1-1 with a tie to Steve and a loss to Vince. Couple dice going the other way in either game and I think I would have made it on to day 3 (of course, I also had a few games where a few dice the other way would have meant I'd lose!). Had fun in every game I played, a lot of tough ones against great opponents both on the table and off.

Can't be too upset though walking away with best Necrons in the swansong event for the old book.

Was great to get to meet a lot of west coasters I hadn't previously had the pleasure of playing with or getting to know. Thanks to Reece, Frankie, and everyone else involved.

Upside down pole dance.....

And those dam front line glasses (the highlight of my trip)

No, it says he has to move in such a way as to end the movement phase within 2" of the unit.

That is not what was quoted above.

In order to join a unit, an Independent Character simply has to move so that he is within the 2" unit coherency distance of a friendly unit at the end of their Movement phase.

There is a very big difference between those two statements. Be within 2" at the end of his move or at the end of the movement phase. I was replying to the second quote and if that is the wording I stand by what I said. If it is worded the way you say I agree you are correct. I say we both check the rule book when we get home.

The thing abou the IC and bikes is being dickish in my opinion - it won't make you any friends obviously.

Not to drag this too far off course but unless every unit has it's own movement phase you would only check for coherency at the end of the one overarching movement phase. No?

Any word on the youtube upload? I am dying to watch some games since I was unable to attend or catch it on the twitch :\

Anyone know what Matt Roots list was? interesting to see what extent the orks had to go to get so high

 ChainswordHeretic wrote:

No, it says he has to move in such a way as to end the movement phase within 2" of the unit.

That is not what was quoted above.

In order to join a unit, an Independent Character simply has to move so that he is within the 2" unit coherency distance of a friendly unit at the end of their Movement phase.

There is a very big difference between those two statements. Be within 2" at the end of his move or at the end of the movement phase. I was replying to the second quote and if that is the wording I stand by what I said. If it is worded the way you say I agree you are correct. I say we both check the rule book when we get home.

The difference is not a meaningful one. The IC moves, the unit moves, the movement phase ends, they're in 2" of each other, they're joined. While I paraphrased a little differently, I can't think of an instance where it would matter, and what you're nitpicking isnt what he had tried to argue.

Deep Male Voice wrote:
Any word on the youtube upload? I am dying to watch some games since I was unable to attend or catch it on the twitch :\

You can watch them on Twitch they are saved you just have to follow the channel and look at past casts tab to see everything.


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 Tiny_Titan wrote:
Anyone know what Matt Roots list was? interesting to see what extent the orks had to go to get so high

Matt Roots list was GreenTide with a bunch of other things.

 ChainswordHeretic wrote:

No, it says he has to move in such a way as to end the movement phase within 2" of the unit.

That is not what was quoted above.

In order to join a unit, an Independent Character simply has to move so that he is within the 2" unit coherency distance of a friendly unit at the end of their Movement phase.

There is a very big difference between those two statements. Be within 2" at the end of his move or at the end of the movement phase. I was replying to the second quote and if that is the wording I stand by what I said. If it is worded the way you say I agree you are correct. I say we both check the rule book when we get home.

Rulebook:

In order to join a unit, an Independent Character simply has to move so that he is within the 2" unit coherency distance of a friendly unit at the end of their Movement phase. If the Independent Character is within 2" of more than one unit at the end of its Movement phase, the player must declare which unit it is joining.

Funny, my rulebook has this to say:

In order to join a unit, an Independent Character simply has to move so that he is within the 2" unit coherency distance of a friendly unit at the end of their Movement phase.

It goes on to say that if more than one unit is within coherency distance then the player must declare which unit it is joining.

Since individual models, units don't have individual Movement phases......

Edit: Ninja'd!!!

There is a big difference between at the end of his move, or the end of the movement phase. If you can't see that there is no need discussing with you anymore,

 tastytaste wrote:

Deep Male Voice wrote:
Any word on the youtube upload? I am dying to watch some games since I was unable to attend or catch it on the twitch :\

You can watch them on Twitch they are saved you just have to follow the channel and look at past casts tab to see everything.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tiny_Titan wrote:
Anyone know what Matt Roots list was? interesting to see what extent the orks had to go to get so high

Matt Roots list was GreenTide with a bunch of other things.

i know about the tide, was just wondering if anyone knew what else he had cheers all

 Tiny_Titan wrote:
Anyone know what Matt Roots list was? interesting to see what extent the orks had to go to get so high

He will post the battlereports the end of this week. He has a thread in the dakka battlereport section.
Basically greentide, void shield generator, tankbustas in gunwagons, Mek gunz, painboy, warboss w lucky stikk, gretchin troops. Deffkoptas to grab objectives. I dunno what else, the jist is the greentide w void shield and spreading those boyz out to claim board control. Sounds like a few players got annoyed facing a horde list w vsg. Kinda funny actually.

Wasn't Steve Sisk the winner of the BAO who had questionable interactions though. Like claiming Khan has a 3++ invuln and rolling extra attacks dice at higher WS etc etc...

I can't comment on Geoffs other games, but if he is playing against a person whos reputation for getting stats and gear wrong precedes them, you can hardly call him out for questioning the guy frequently. Doing it in a jerk tone and manner is not called for, but simply asking him politely to double check stats and rules is actually pretty smart.

EDIT: The IC thing seems a bit OTT but again its his right to politely ask a judge. I do think there becomes a point where you can be way too pedantic about it but I just want to make the distinction since some people are acting like 40k has clearly written rules. People played from several locals with different metas and interpretations remember.

The rule on this one isn't as fuzzy as people are making it, I don't think. He has to move so that he is within 2" of a friendly unit at the end of the movement phase. If he moves into the middle of nowhere, but at the end of the movement phase he is within 2" of a joinable unit, then he moved so that he was within 2" of a unit at the end of the movement phase.

As someone already said, it is not that he must move so that he is within 2" of a friendly unit at the end of his movement.

Anyone has a clue on the Necron lists?

MVBrandt wrote:
The rule on this one isn't as fuzzy as people are making it, I don't think. He has to move so that he is within 2" of a friendly unit at the end of the movement phase. If he moves into the middle of nowhere, but at the end of the movement phase he is within 2" of a joinable unit, then he moved so that he was within 2" of a unit at the end of the movement phase.

As someone already said, it is not that he must move so that he is within 2" of a friendly unit at the end of his movement.

I agree, it's one of those rules that has popped up in YMDC however and it's easy to get your head twisted backwards after fallowing some of those threads.

From what I gathered the highest necron list was decorian wraith spam who was ranked 26th and went 4-2 and had issues claiming maelstrom objectives. But I am sure they will do better once people start balancing the lists. The codex has only been out a few weeks. It's a low showing considering it seems like a durable codex.

gungo wrote:
From what I gathered the highest necron list was decorian wraith spam who was ranked 26th and went 4-2 and had issues claiming maelstrom objectives. But I am sure they will do better once people start balancing the lists. The codex has only been out a few weeks. It's a low showing considering it seems like a durable codex.

You shouldn't just look at it like that. The missions and format make a big difference. Durability means nothing aginst ranged D and MSU like the top two lists will always be strong in maelstrom. I am sure necrons will come into their own but whether or not certain builds, like the Decurion which is all in on one strategy, so well or not very much depends on the environment and the player.

Best Necron was Werner Born, who was running old Necrons, with the Pylon jump-around tricks.

Warmonger2757 wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:
@tag883, @krootman: I think my proposed solution for Lynx's is the following: replace the Holofields rule with "Any model with holofields has a 5+ invulnerable save. This save increases to a 4+ if the model moved in the previous turn." What do you guys think having played them multiple times as well?

Having played two lists with Lynx, I'm not sure that would even make a difference. Giving it an invul is pointless, especially since most people with a Lynx were putting it on skyshields anyway. All you do at that point is save them the 75pts for the sky shield. I think the titan fields should just be a cover save instead of an invul. At least it would be threatened in melee and force the eldar player to at least turn it to a zooming flyer for a turn and not be able to use the pulsar.

I have had the (good?) fortune to have somewhere near a dozen games vs. a Lynx. Frankly, AdLance in LVO missions ('classic' book missions coupled with a D6 tactical objective table) are more meta-influencing and are the reason I added a Webway Portal Fire Dragon delivery system to my list. With my Eldar https://tinyplasticaliens.wordpress.com/2014/11/27/2014-renegade-open-day-1-condensed-battle-reports/, I have a plus score vs. the Lynx in several different mission formats. With my CSM, not so much, though I still managed to sneak a win and a draw out of about 5 games. My score vs. AdLance (in LVO-style missions) is dismal; 1 win in more than 10 games.

Mostly, when it comes to Lynxes, I'm just not afraid of them. And in a Maelstrom mission, they're a detriment. Yeah, just picking up my model(s) is a bummer, but if the model I'm picking up scored me 2 Maelstrom points...I'm winning. The Lynx can only ever reasonably expect to remove 1 target per turn. GravCents remove 1 or more targets a turn. I just get the 'feeling' that I'm participating by rolling a bajillion 4+ cover saves for my Bloodthirster (or whatever it was they shot at). If by some miracle I roll well, my model stays on the table--so I feel like I did something. But if a Lynx rolls a '1', my model stays on the table too--and there's a ~16% chance that happens. In some cases is better than being shot at by GravCents, even if I'm not 'participating'.

For the players that are unenthusiastic about including the Lynx in tournament games, I have to ask how much table time have you spent facing them?