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I don't have a Chaos Space Marine Codex yet, but from what I can tell the Dreadnought is no longer listed in the army list? I don't see it listed in Army Builder either. I know the Hellbrute is I guess the "new" Dreadnought, but does that mean the Dreadnought is no longer valid? Or does it mean you can still use the Dreadnought, just use the Hellbrute rules?

Perhaps a seasoned Chaos Space Marine veteran can enlighten me. Personally, I like the look and feel of the classic Dreadnought MUCH better than the Hellbrute, although the Brute has grown on me to the point I'd use it, but only if I couldn't use a Dreadnought. Still plenty of Chaos Dreads available on Forge World too!

The Helbrute is literally a Chaos Dreadnaught. Same model, same rules, it's just called something different. Except for the wacky melted thing in DV, that's a different Dreadnaught model.


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(You do need IA13 to run a Sonic Dreadnaught with a blastmaster or a Chaos Contemptor, though)

basicly they renames the chaos dreadnought to helbrute, I think the reasoning for this is GW was really trying to make CSMs a little more distinct then just "Marines with spikes" expect future CSM packs once GW finally revises those, to really push a "techno-organic" look and feel to more CSM units

BrianDavion wrote:
basicly they renames the chaos dreadnought to helbrute, I think the reasoning for this is GW was really trying to make CSMs a little more distinct then just "Marines with spikes" expect future CSM packs once GW finally revises those, to really push a "techno-organic" look and feel to more CSM units

I guess that's why they removed the old "Spiky Bits" special rule, so CSM would no longer be marines with spikes but simply marines with extra skullz

In any case if the goal is to make CSM more distinctive and different from vanilla marines, I don't think resorting to silly names is the way to go. "Helbrute". Pffffft. It could be even worse I guess, they could have picked "Evilnought".

The chaos dreadnought still exists, its just IA now.

They may be the same unit, but the Helbrute model is very different from a Dreadnought model to me.

Helbrute: http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Helbrute

Dread: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Chaos/CHAOS_DREADNOUGHTS_AND_WALKERS/IRON-WARRIORS-DREADNOUGHT.html

they are different models and have different rules, a hellbrute is not a chaos dreadnought anymore, and the chaos dreadnought is not a hellbrute, IA 13 I think it was has rules for what is essentially a chaos venerable dread, its all funky.

Yeah, the hellbrute isn't a straight analogue to the dreadnought anymore. I mean, it is, table-wise, but not in fluff.

Regular SMs get sealed in a sarcophagus which is then plugged into a mindless machine. The SM controls it as completely as a person drives a car or rides a motorcycle.

Meanwhile, in chaos land, warpsmiths carefully craft flesh engines that they bind demonic entities into. Then, to control this multi-demon monster, they plug in a wounded SM to reign in all the insanity, and keep its guns all pointed in the right direction. A duty which it executes to varying degrees of success.

For a considerable price hike, a Ferrum Infernus Dreadnaught does Dreadnaught things while the Helbrute does whatever it friggin wants on the table as a wild card. Got 100pts to spend for no reason? Helbrute. But it isn't a dreadnaught. The image OP linked as a Dreadnaught does work as a Helbrute, but it works BETTER as a Ferrum Infernus Dread from Imperial Armour 13. Use those rules and you have a proper Chaos Dreadnaught with some nice little additions.