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First of all I like the models of the rail weapons. It is huge, “looks” powerful, and “should” only ever need one shot to take down anything. Unfortunately even a lowly rhino will take multiple shot to consistently destroy it. So with that I want is to make a special rule for rail weapons, “Rail”.

Rail: On a roll of 6 to armor penetration, the shot automatically penetrates and has a +1 modifier in the damage table (stacks with other modifiers, so basically a +3 being AP1 too). Also, on a roll of 6 to wound roll, the shot automatically wounds the target and has the Instant Death rule.

Now that might hopefully see the rise of use of rail weaponry on the table top. We might actually see people running rail rifles on their pathfinders (probably give stealth suits an option to take rail rifles too) and actually have them “decide” to either go HYMP or HRR. I am also thinking of giving the Railgun on the hammerhead a better Rail rule, possibly on a roll of 5+ instead of a 6 and twin-linked. Let me know what you guys think.

Honestly, they just need a special rule saying they get to re roll on the vehicle damage table. That and maybe change HRR's to rapid fire or heavy 2.

I might be mistaken, but aren't railguns S10 Ap1? As in, they're literally the strongest weapon possible in the game. Or am I mistaken?

On an expensive platform, and being a single shot direct fire weapon. The direct fire is what hurts it the most IMO. Maybe twin-linking would help?

How bout ordnance 1. Roll 2d6 pick the highest for armor pen.

That's a pretty good idea. Fits with the theme of the weapon too.

They'd have to snap fire everything else, but I don't imagine burst cannons are useful against similar targets.

Not to mention they have a 18" range.

Swap the type to Ordnance and you are done.

Special rule: Rail.

Rail weapons get an additional +1 to the penetration roll above and beyond the bonus from their AP. Additionally, any penetrating hit from a rail weapon causes D3 HP damage, not just one, in addition to any other HP damage caused by the hit.

This gives rail weapons additional efficacy against super heavies. The rail gun on the hammerhead should be last word in killing super heavies. Period.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Swap the type to Ordnance and you are done.

No, no that's too weak.

Also, bring back pseudo-fast for Tau vehicles.

Ap 1 gives +2 on the damage roll, that's really freaking good.

D3 hull points on any penetrating hit would be crazy OP.

Hey. Make them a D weapon.

I mean come on what are you actually complaining over? The most powerful gun stats the rules allow are not good enough? Rhino? Shoot pulse rifles! Use the Rail gun on AV 14! No way should one weapon dominate in penetration AND volume of fire.

On a 5 or 6 it kabooms anything. 4 5 or 6 opentopped. Leave it at that.

I do believe just adding ordnance to the shot is not sufficient and dealing an extra D3 HP damage is OP (basically a D weapon). Though I like the idea of making HRR rapid fire and could potentially have a good combo with the plasma secondary weapons. Also, make the railgun on a hammerhead twin-linked. After some more thought how about this.

Rail: Add the difference from your armor penetration roll (D6 + S) and the AV of the vehicle to the damage table (Stacks with other modifiers).

So basically an armor penetration roll of 4 (14) against a rhino (AV 11) will yield a +3 modifier on the damage table. This will give the Railgun good chances to 1 shot low AV vehicles and a slightly better chance to 1 shot a land raider. I mean the railgun was meant to hunt titans…

 TheSilo wrote:
Ap 1 gives +2 on the damage roll, that's really freaking good.

D3 hull points on any penetrating hit would be crazy OP.

Not really. Just appropriate. It's compensation for being a one-shot weapon. The thing probably could kill an Imperial tank behind the first one if the rules were detailed enough.

The +2 from AP 1 now requires a "5" on the to get an explodes. That's unacceptable for a one shot weapon like this. As for the HRR, it's hard enough to penetrate with Str 8. Powerful weapons that mimic modern weapons that are actually in use in the real world should be far more effective than the fantasical gobbledegook that the Imperium fields.

Tautastic wrote:

Rail: Add the difference from your armor penetration roll (D6 + S) and the AV of the vehicle to the damage table (Stacks with other modifiers)

That was what the rules used to be in 2nd ... no-one took vehicles.. they nerfed the over kill spills over in vehicle damage roll.

... for a reason...

The answer (for the sake of sanity) is "NOOO!"

Your ideas seem to be a) make them melta and str 10 or b) break the entire raison d'etre of 7th ed vehicle dmg or c) give them moar shots.. this is a crazy crazy crazy ruleschat

A single weapon only available to one faction on one tank is not why vehicles were bad in 2nd.

Giving the rail gun on the hammerhead D3 HP damage on a pen and extra +1 to the result table actually might make it so you see one sometimes instead of just Riptides and Broadsides as far as the eye can see.

For kicks, I'd make it ignore Knights' shields as well. Because knights deserve it, and watching them get shot apart from 60" away by a half-way realistic weapon makes me smile.

Tau Rail weapons seem powerful enough as is, the reason for being single shot and using the Ballistic Skill to hit seems to be the one thing keeping them balanced.

and yeah, I think S10 AP1 is plenty strong enough.

 Cothonian wrote:
Tau Rail weapons seem powerful enough as is, the reason for being single shot and using the Ballistic Skill to hit seems to be the one thing keeping them balanced.

and yeah, I think S10 AP1 is plenty strong enough.

But it's actually terrible for a one shot weapon. I haven't seen one used since 6th dropped because they are inferior to everything else in the book.

" to be the one thing keeping them balanced"

No, ROF 1 is what is making it bad, not balanced. Low ROF is the devil in 6/7th ed 40K.

Martel732 wrote:

The +2 from AP 1 now requires a "5" on the to get an explodes. That's unacceptable for a one shot weapon like this.

Why is it unacceptable? in 5 turn game it will statistically (if left un hindered to shoot) strip 2 hull points with dmg table rolls overwhelmingly likely (assuming 4 hits) and blow one vehicle up. Not bad.

ConanMan wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

The +2 from AP 1 now requires a "5" on the to get an explodes. That's unacceptable for a one shot weapon like this.

Why is it unacceptable? in 5 turn game it will statistically (if left un hindered to shoot) strip 2 hull points with dmg table rolls overwhelmingly likely (assuming 4 hits) and blow one vehicle up. Not bad.

For the cost of the tank, and for giving up a heavy slot, that is a terrible outcome. You could have had missile sides and fragged four vehicles.

 Cothonian wrote:
Tau Rail weapons seem powerful enough as is, the reason for being single shot and using the Ballistic Skill to hit seems to be the one thing keeping them balanced.

and yeah, I think S10 AP1 is plenty strong enough.

I'd rather be able to take three lascannons on a tank like IoM players can rather than a single railgun and the difference is only 1 to both Str and Ap, so by is that balanced whilst a hammerhead with better damage is imbalanced?

Non-fast tri-las preds aren't very good, either, though. The marine tri-las pred and the hammerhead both are pitiful compared to missile sides.

What horror would it unleash to give the railgun a 50/50 to blow up a vehicle and deal D3 HP damage instead of one on a pen? How are the Tau going to cheese this? Maybe superheavies would have to pay attention to something other than the ubiquitous suicide melta team?

Martel732 wrote:
Non-fast tri-las preds aren't very good, either, though. The marine tri-las pred and the hammerhead both are pitiful compared to missile sides.

I know, but I'd still rather have a tri-las pred due to weight of fire.

SGTPozy wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Non-fast tri-las preds aren't very good, either, though. The marine tri-las pred and the hammerhead both are pitiful compared to missile sides.

I know, but I'd still rather have a tri-las pred due to weight of fire.

I suppose, even though the Hammerhead has better firepower on the move. And better upgrades.

Martel732 wrote:

SGTPozy wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Non-fast tri-las preds aren't very good, either, though. The marine tri-las pred and the hammerhead both are pitiful compared to missile sides.

I know, but I'd still rather have a tri-las pred due to weight of fire.

I suppose, even though the Hammerhead has better firepower on the move. And better upgrades.

I guess, but if you had three lascannons you wouldn't want to move it. What better upgrades? Do you mean disruption pods as they will hurt the hammerhead if it does jink.

"I guess, but if you had three lascannons you wouldn't want to move it"

But you see, opponents know this. So they will try to move THEIR stuff to where you have to move to get a shot again. See where I'm going with this? That's why the BA tri-las pred is so much better.

Martel732 wrote:
"I guess, but if you had three lascannons you wouldn't want to move it"

But you see, opponents know this. So they will try to move THEIR stuff to where you have to move to get a shot again. See where I'm going with this? That's why the BA tri-las pred is so much better.

Just ally one in then; it isn't as if you aren't battle brothers...

SGTPozy wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
"I guess, but if you had three lascannons you wouldn't want to move it"

But you see, opponents know this. So they will try to move THEIR stuff to where you have to move to get a shot again. See where I'm going with this? That's why the BA tri-las pred is so much better.

Just ally one in then; it isn't as if you aren't battle brothers...

Don't own the models. I, like many other IoM players, only have one faction and the ally rules don't help us at all. Allying also increases the troop tax.

Isn't the BA model the exact same though? Just paint it red to make it go faster (are BA Orks? ) and just take some cheap scouts and use them to hold an objective.

All this requires is a repaint of your models.

<sniff> I wish my Tau and/or Tyranids had a battle brother (other than themselves).

SGTPozy wrote:
Isn't the BA model the exact same though? Just paint it red to make it go faster (are BA Orks? ) and just take some cheap scouts and use them to hold an objective.

All this requires is a repaint of your models.

<sniff> I wish my Tau and/or Tyranids had a battle brother (other than themselves).

I play BA, so I don't need to repaint. But all my units come from that book. So C:SM goodies for me. None of those are repaints.