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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/25 21:35:01
Subject: Make Shuriken Catapults S3?
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
UK
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Currently Shuriken Catapults are as powerful as exploding bolter rounds. Isn't this a bit of an exaggeration? Wouldn't S3 be more appropriate? It fires tiny shards which sometimes find a weak spot after all, not a hard hitting shell.
Thoughts?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/25 21:35:15
"That's how a Luna Wolf fights."
"If you can't keep up, go and join the Death Guard"
"It had often been said that Space Marines knew no fear, but when Angron charged, he ran" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/25 21:38:29
Subject: Make Shuriken Catapults S3?
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Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch
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I agree, although this would warrant a point drop. I think a 3 point drop would be appropriate on both avengers and guardians,
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Aftermath can be calculated.
Dark humor is like food, not everyone gets it. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/25 21:39:14
Subject: Make Shuriken Catapults S3?
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Avatar of the Bloody-Handed God
Inside your mind, corrupting the pathways
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They are razor sharp discs that can slice through armour. They are already only range 12", on a unit that is made of wet paper in close combat. Why make them worse?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/25 21:41:26
Subject: Make Shuriken Catapults S3?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Fluffwise, not a terrible idea, but would need some compensation. Fluffwise, because they are scary. Balance wise, because they aren't that scary at s4.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/25 21:44:43
Subject: Make Shuriken Catapults S3?
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
UK
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A squad of 12 is already going to get 2 AP2 wounds per round of shooting, I don't think that's bad at all. You could give them an extra 6" of range to compensate or a points cut I guess.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/25 21:45:01
"That's how a Luna Wolf fights."
"If you can't keep up, go and join the Death Guard"
"It had often been said that Space Marines knew no fear, but when Angron charged, he ran" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/25 21:48:57
Subject: Make Shuriken Catapults S3?
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Fixture of Dakka
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A squad of 18 gets 2 AP2 hits in a round. Not all shots hit.
And they're t3, APed by Boltguns, and have a 12" range.
Adding 6" of range and dropping them to s3 makes them feel too mucblh like LasBlasters. Points drop might work, though.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/25 22:04:07
Subject: Make Shuriken Catapults S3?
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
UK
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12 guardians, 24 shots, 12 hits, 2 6's to wound.
My working is right isn't it?
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"That's how a Luna Wolf fights."
"If you can't keep up, go and join the Death Guard"
"It had often been said that Space Marines knew no fear, but when Angron charged, he ran" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/25 22:15:51
Subject: Make Shuriken Catapults S3?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Better than mine.
2/3 hit, 1/6 Ap2
1/9 shots
18 shots
9 Guardians.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/26 10:49:03
Subject: Make Shuriken Catapults S3?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Fluffwise maybe, balance wise no. 12" range is poo even with Battle Focus. Fluffwise those bolters would probably be strength D or something.
Taffy17 wrote:12 guardians, 24 shots, 12 hits, 2 6's to wound.
My working is right isn't it?
Guardians are BS4.
Each Guardian has 2 shots, 1.333 hits and 0.222 wounds at AP2. Multiply 0.222 (2/9 as a fraction) by your squad size.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/26 10:50:50
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/26 12:36:42
Subject: Make Shuriken Catapults S3?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I don't think it make sense fluff wise. A shuriken catapult has a rate of fire of a 100 shot per second according to their 3rd eddition codex and those disks are propelled at almost supersonic speed. That's the a rate of fire almost twice faster than that of a gatling gun (60 shot per second) and 33 times faster than an assault rifle (or your normal bolter gun on full auto). Can you imagine what happen to humen body when a 100 disk of metal more than razor sharp are shot at it at 800 kilometer per hour? There is only juice left. An explosive round isn't that impressive compared to that. If you want to know were the rule bladestorm comes from it's from that fact. With so many dangerous projectile coming at you, one is bound to hit a weak spot of any armour and hurt you badly. Game wise, shuriken catapult haren't that bad. they are good, but not the best. I would say gauss weapon and pulse rifle are more efficient and I even prefer the bolter and splinter rifle to it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/26 22:41:44
Subject: Make Shuriken Catapults S3?
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
UK
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that still doesnt explain why they should have hight strength, if anything they should have higher rate of fire.
maybe 12" S3 AP5 Assault 3 Bladestorm?
This would be more like you described with shear weight of fire and aiming for weak spots taking down targets as opposed to high stopping power like a bolter.
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"That's how a Luna Wolf fights."
"If you can't keep up, go and join the Death Guard"
"It had often been said that Space Marines knew no fear, but when Angron charged, he ran" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/26 22:46:48
Subject: Make Shuriken Catapults S3?
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Fixture of Dakka
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The high strength and mediocre rate of fire is an abstraction. If we want to be fluffy about it, they should probably be strength 1 with an insane rate of fire. But that would just cause people to take forever picking up and rolling dice. Plus, people would complain about bladestorm even more since any wounds you roll will always be rending.
don't think of "strength" on a weapon as its actual stopping power/literal force. Think of it as its capacity for raw damage. AP is its ability to ignore measures that diminish that raw damage. Similarly, the number of dice you roll for a weapon is not how many projectiles it spits out.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/26 22:48:15
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/26 22:53:56
Subject: Make Shuriken Catapults S3?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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@Wyldhunt
I would agree with you. Strength is the term to describe the ease of someone (or something) to cause an injurie and AP the ease at which it ignore armour or similar protection. In the same way, toughness isn't really about how tough a ting is, but how easy it is to cause significant damage to it. That's why guardsmen and eldar are strength three and space marine 4. Space Marine are much stronger than humen or eldar, but most of that strength is useless and waisted on something so easy to hurt.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/26 22:56:50
Subject: Make Shuriken Catapults S3?
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Mutilatin' Mad Dok
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I think with the Pseudo-rending, S3 would be fine. I'd increase the range by 6" though. 12" is pants for a main infantry weapon.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/26 23:04:34
Subject: Re:Make Shuriken Catapults S3?
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Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard
Catskills in NYS
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That makes more sense.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/02/27 02:00:32
Subject: Make Shuriken Catapults S3?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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They have battle focus to compensate for short range, and blade storm to make up for low saves.
The gun itself is actually fine as is, near as I can tell...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/01 17:43:53
Subject: Re:Make Shuriken Catapults S3?
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Fresh-Faced New User
Stockholm
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I think it is a bad idea they have always been S4 - representing a big number of monofilament sharp shurikens at very high velocity. Guardians use to have lasguns with S3 but with longer range.
From a gameplay perspective they would be too weak especially shuriken pistols.
Shuriken cannons is S6 they would use the same technology but more powerful. Right now they are kind of powerful thanks to blade storm - I think they could make it to AP 3 instead of 2.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/03/01 19:39:04
Subject: Make Shuriken Catapults S3?
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Krazed Killa Kan
Homestead, FL
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epronovost wrote:I don't think it make sense fluff wise. A shuriken catapult has a rate of fire of a 100 shot per second according to their 3rd eddition codex and those disks are propelled at almost supersonic speed. That's the a rate of fire almost twice faster than that of a gatling gun (60 shot per second) and 33 times faster than an assault rifle (or your normal bolter gun on full auto). Can you imagine what happen to humen body when a 100 disk of metal more than razor sharp are shot at it at 800 kilometer per hour? There is only juice left. An explosive round isn't that impressive compared to that. If you want to know were the rule bladestorm comes from it's from that fact. With so many dangerous projectile coming at you, one is bound to hit a weak spot of any armour and hurt you badly. Game wise, shuriken catapult haren't that bad. they are good, but not the best. I would say gauss weapon and pulse rifle are more efficient and I even prefer the bolter and splinter rifle to it.
depending on what gatling gun your talking about your right and wrong. the M134 can shoot around 6k shots a minute in cyclic so thats 100 rounds a second. And realistically with a good armorer you can get 10-20 more rounds a second. :-P
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I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you, with tears in my eyes: If you mess with me, I'll kill you all
Marine General James Mattis, to Iraqi tribal leaders |
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