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That's feasible with the way they reproduce, but they wouldn't be much more than galactic roaches scattered in the inky black.

Indeed. The point of the probe the Mechanicus launched was to see what else was out there in space, beyond the Milky Way. They discovered (at the time that fluff was written, which was a long, long time ago) that, anywhere they went, the Orks had beaten them to it.

Which, given that the Orks are some sixty million years old, is not really surprising. They had a lot of time after the Necrons went to sleep and the Eldar withdrew to their own Empire to go tooling around in space and spread the Green Tide far and wide.

Wouldn't more recent fluff retcon that to the Tyranid storyline?

That many orks wouldn't work as well with the gestalt theory of Ork engineering either. They'd be demigods.

The Orks (then called the Krork) were created as the "shock troops" of the Old Ones to fight the Necrons in the War in Heaven, which is some 60 million years prior to M40. That's the current origins of the Orks.

The Tyranids are not native to the Milky Way, of course, being entirely extra-galactic. At some point between the initiation of the Great Sleep and M40, the Silent King of the Necrons, zooming about the void between galaxies, encountered the Tyranids, went "oh, shiiiiii-", turned around and flew back here to start waking his people up.

Now, we don't know where the Tyranids came from, how long they've been around, or how long it takes them to go from one galaxy to the next. It could be that, 45 million years ago, there were no Tyranids and the Orks spread out to 37 other galaxies, and then 20 million years ago the Tyranids came about, ate all those Ork galaxies, and then started heading for this one, and what the Mechanicus found was the millions-of-years-old radio signals of those now-extinct Ork colonies... but we're not told anything that specific.

Given there understanding of local warp travel is abit sketchy in places. Inter galactic is abit beyond the impirium I think. Even with the most advanced warp engines there's the problem of navigation. Without the beacon there is no human way points to work against.

Maybe chaos may have a shot with there possessed not needing it I think.

Maybe during dark age of tech but mankind has sunk a long way.

 Psienesis wrote:
The Orks (then called the Krork) were created as the "shock troops" of the Old Ones to fight the Necrons in the War in Heaven, which is some 60 million years prior to M40. That's the current origins of the Orks.

The Tyranids are not native to the Milky Way, of course, being entirely extra-galactic. At some point between the initiation of the Great Sleep and M40, the Silent King of the Necrons, zooming about the void between galaxies, encountered the Tyranids, went "oh, shiiiiii-", turned around and flew back here to start waking his people up.

Now, we don't know where the Tyranids came from, how long they've been around, or how long it takes them to go from one galaxy to the next. It could be that, 45 million years ago, there were no Tyranids and the Orks spread out to 37 other galaxies, and then 20 million years ago the Tyranids came about, ate all those Ork galaxies, and then started heading for this one, and what the Mechanicus found was the millions-of-years-old radio signals of those now-extinct Ork colonies... but we're not told anything that specific.

I'm assuming then a light retcon of those signals being of extinct orks. The Devourer is a relatively recent introduction.

Nothing has outright said that the probe story no longer exists or was changed. It's just a blurb in an old Ork Codex, iirc, that hints that the Orks have spread throughout space, and is told from an Imperial POV.

It also doesn't go into much detail (iirc, it's just some side-bar note, white text in a black box, as they are fond of doing) the main point of it being that "wherever Man goes, he finds the Orks have gone there first" sort of deal.

As previously mentioned, this probe doesn't actually go to any other galaxies, it just went beyond the galactic rim, and my bit up above about Orks settling distant galaxies is entirely made-up, there's nothing that supports that it's ever happened, but nothing to say that it didn't. It's just one of many possible scenarios.

We can entertain scenarios of Orks adrift without clashing with existing fluff, I think.

Dialing back a bit, I think our proposition on the nature of the Shadow in the Warp is a good indication of what is to be expected from warp travel to other galaxies, assuming one ever survived the trip.

It's possible Dark Age man had the technology, but impossible to know if they were successful in anything but sucking and dying once they found a galaxy bereft of life.

 Shidank wrote:
We can entertain scenarios of Orks adrift without clashing with existing fluff, I think.

Dialing back a bit, I think our proposition on the nature of the Shadow in the Warp is a good indication of what is to be expected from warp travel to other galaxies, assuming one ever survived the trip.

It's possible Dark Age man had the technology, but impossible to know if they were successful in anything but sucking and dying once they found a galaxy bereft of life.

You actually have a point...... DAOT humans had probe ships scouting out galaxies, hell, one returned to the Milky Way into the 40k timeline (book Death of Integrity). For all we know, humanity did in fact set up colonies and expansions in other galaxies -- but were cut off by the Long Night like the rest of humanity. They might have been able to still use the warp in their own galaxies but they were completely isolated from the rest of humanity in the Milky Way. Some of those colonies might have even survived and might still exist now (or are being eaten now by nids).

It's even possible that humans have already travelled to other galaxies entirely by mistake. Who really knows what happens to ships/squadrons/fleets that disappear in the warp?

Even though we're told 'Nids have eaten nearby galaxies we don't know they've eaten every nearby galaxy. Does anyone think they saved the Milky Way for last in our cluster, like the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop? It seems rather more likely they've pushed out from one galactic direction and the Milky Way was just the next snack-cluster encountered.

That's why I think there are Tyranid-free galaxies adjoining our Milky Way, just as there are galaxies that have been bug-scoured.

My two teef.

Warboss Gorhack wrote:
It's even possible that humans have already travelled to other galaxies entirely by mistake. Who really knows what happens to ships/squadrons/fleets that disappear in the warp?

Even though we're told 'Nids have eaten nearby galaxies we don't know they've eaten every nearby galaxy. Does anyone think they saved the Milky Way for last in our cluster, like the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop? It seems rather more likely they've pushed out from one galactic direction and the Milky Way was just the next snack-cluster encountered.

That's why I think there are Tyranid-free galaxies adjoining our Milky Way, just as there are galaxies that have been bug-scoured.

My two teef.

I like to think they're just moving in a line and haven't eaten everything YET.

I wonder what the Eldar thought of extra-galactic travel?

 Shidank wrote:

Warboss Gorhack wrote:
It's even possible that humans have already travelled to other galaxies entirely by mistake. Who really knows what happens to ships/squadrons/fleets that disappear in the warp?

Even though we're told 'Nids have eaten nearby galaxies we don't know they've eaten every nearby galaxy. Does anyone think they saved the Milky Way for last in our cluster, like the tootsie roll center of a tootsie pop? It seems rather more likely they've pushed out from one galactic direction and the Milky Way was just the next snack-cluster encountered.

That's why I think there are Tyranid-free galaxies adjoining our Milky Way, just as there are galaxies that have been bug-scoured.

My two teef.

I like to think they're just moving in a line and haven't eaten everything YET.

I wonder what the Eldar thought of extra-galactic travel?

Well the Dark Eldar find the entire idea boring . So much empty space with nothing to do and no-one to torture... and maybe even nothing to do and no-one to torture when they get there as well.

I believe the Craftworld Eldar are simply too arrogant to try. They believe this is their galaxy and won't leave it even when it may be prudent to do so.
This is probably the case for the Necrons too.

I think it's strange that some of you see the Warp so simple. Why are you putting borders around the Warp when the Universe is endless? Sure Chaos and Daemons are interested to enter the material Universe where there's sentient life but as soon as sentient life wakened Chaos, why shouldn't Chaos spread to the whole Warp which again are endless?

Is rather difficult to discuss this I think, but I just don't see why the Warp should be so limited and how it physically should match the Milky Way so exactly, when we know how shapeless, abstract and incomprehensible the Warp always is described

Because it's implied that the Warp is a fairly local thing to the Milky Way. Get much beyond it, into the Void, and the Warp sort of fizzles out into oblivion.

Btw, what do they call the MIlky Way in 40k? Or is it still the Milky Way?

If they make any reference to it at all, it's still the Milky Way, but usually it's just "the galaxy".

 Psienesis wrote:
Because it's implied that the Warp is a fairly local thing to the Milky Way. Get much beyond it, into the Void, and the Warp sort of fizzles out into oblivion.

Ok, haven't noticed this being implied. The Void between galaxies or just star systems has no specific physical connection to the Warp, so I don't get your explanation at all.

 Psienesis wrote:
Only if they're actually from another galaxy and not from an Ork Rok drifting around in the void beyond the galactic rim.

So what you're saying is... the Nids are running from the Orks !!!

Chaospling wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Because it's implied that the Warp is a fairly local thing to the Milky Way. Get much beyond it, into the Void, and the Warp sort of fizzles out into oblivion.

Ok, haven't noticed this being implied. The Void between galaxies or just star systems has no specific physical connection to the Warp, so I don't get your explanation at all.

As noted previously ITT, the Warp is affected by, colored by and made up of psycho-emotive energy that reflects and reacts to the general vibe of mortal creatures in a given area. When the galaxy is relatively calm, the Warp is relatively calm. When it's not, it isn't.

Get too far outside the realm of where mortal creatures dwell, and there's nothing to create, feed or reflect to/from that energy. Would also explain why, as fethed up as Chaos mutations can be, they're still recognizable as something that exists in the mortal plane, even if you don't normally see them in quite that configuration or colors. We don't see, for example, examples of wholly extra-galactic beings as Chaos mutants. Heck, even the Tyranids could be recognizably local in origin (they're insectoid, but not truly alien). This is, perhaps, caused by the limited creative scope of the franchise, but I find it a bit odd that, in its history, there's never been a Chaos gift that made you go "wow, that's certainly from somewhere far, far away".

There's also the fact that, going really far back, most of the Chaos Gods are created by human activity, rather than weird-ass Xenos or just certain emotions based on mortals, regardless of species. This has changed somewhat (when maybe GW realized that it didn't make any sense) but not so much that we can safely say that Khorne is a universal concept, for example.

 Psienesis wrote:

Chaospling wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Because it's implied that the Warp is a fairly local thing to the Milky Way. Get much beyond it, into the Void, and the Warp sort of fizzles out into oblivion.

Ok, haven't noticed this being implied. The Void between galaxies or just star systems has no specific physical connection to the Warp, so I don't get your explanation at all.

As noted previously ITT, the Warp is affected by, colored by and made up of psycho-emotive energy that reflects and reacts to the general vibe of mortal creatures in a given area. When the galaxy is relatively calm, the Warp is relatively calm. When it's not, it isn't.

Get too far outside the realm of where mortal creatures dwell, and there's nothing to create, feed or reflect to/from that energy. Would also explain why, as fethed up as Chaos mutations can be, they're still recognizable as something that exists in the mortal plane, even if you don't normally see them in quite that configuration or colors. We don't see, for example, examples of wholly extra-galactic beings as Chaos mutants. Heck, even the Tyranids could be recognizably local in origin (they're insectoid, but not truly alien). This is, perhaps, caused by the limited creative scope of the franchise, but I find it a bit odd that, in its history, there's never been a Chaos gift that made you go "wow, that's certainly from somewhere far, far away".

There's also the fact that, going really far back, most of the Chaos Gods are created by human activity, rather than weird-ass Xenos or just certain emotions based on mortals, regardless of species. This has changed somewhat (when maybe GW realized that it didn't make any sense) but not so much that we can safely say that Khorne is a universal concept, for example.

I think ( don't get upset if I am wrong) he doesn't know that ther are void spaces 10 to 1000 times the size of our galaxy Between each Galaxy. A galaxy is not a universe and in a universe...there are billions of Galaxies.

So the warp is a small dimension compare to the universe and is only a plane that is connected to this galaxy and not the universe...afaik

 Shidank wrote:

 Therion wrote:

 Squidmanlolz wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:
Are we even sure the warp extends beyond the limits of our own galaxy?

The warp is dependent on sentient life and cannot exist in the areas between galaxies.

The warp has always existed. It wasn't always full of 'daemons' or 'gods'. It's just full of energy that takes forms because of the emotions of psychic beings in the material universe.

Referring to the warp as a physical construct and limiting its size is a moot point. The warp, as was said, is present anywhere sentient life is. Therefore, if you were to take an expedition fleet beyond known boundaries of the Imperium, the warp would go with you. There's no telling where you might end up and wherever you did wouldn't be an extension of the existing warp, per se, just another physical place where the warp has been accessed.

The Chaos Gods are older then existence, existed before the sentient races of the milky way, and have wormed their way into other dimensions (such as hyperspace) and other universes. They aren't restrained to merely occupying the Milky Way- the Warp is infinite, timeless, and breaks causality.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Shidank wrote:

 Therion wrote:

 Squidmanlolz wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:
Are we even sure the warp extends beyond the limits of our own galaxy?

The warp is dependent on sentient life and cannot exist in the areas between galaxies.

The warp has always existed. It wasn't always full of 'daemons' or 'gods'. It's just full of energy that takes forms because of the emotions of psychic beings in the material universe.

Referring to the warp as a physical construct and limiting its size is a moot point. The warp, as was said, is present anywhere sentient life is. Therefore, if you were to take an expedition fleet beyond known boundaries of the Imperium, the warp would go with you. There's no telling where you might end up and wherever you did wouldn't be an extension of the existing warp, per se, just another physical place where the warp has been accessed.

The Chaos Gods are older then existence, existed before the sentient races of the milky way, and have wormed their way into other dimensions (such as hyperspace) and other universes. They aren't restrained to merely occupying the Milky Way- the Warp is infinite, timeless, and breaks causality.

I am not sure about this one...people talk a lot about other universe...the universe is a very big place and contain billions of galaxies.

The four chaos gods are a product of this galaxy ( Milky Way ) and I have not heard of another chaos gods from other galaxies....if ther are other life and chaos gods from other galaxy...it is with in the compound of that galaxy. It would be irelevent to this galaxy because the distance. Is just too far apart. GW have not talk about this because each galaxy is just too far apart to make this discussion even remotely important.

 david choe wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 Shidank wrote:

 Therion wrote:

 Squidmanlolz wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:
Are we even sure the warp extends beyond the limits of our own galaxy?

The warp is dependent on sentient life and cannot exist in the areas between galaxies.

The warp has always existed. It wasn't always full of 'daemons' or 'gods'. It's just full of energy that takes forms because of the emotions of psychic beings in the material universe.

Referring to the warp as a physical construct and limiting its size is a moot point. The warp, as was said, is present anywhere sentient life is. Therefore, if you were to take an expedition fleet beyond known boundaries of the Imperium, the warp would go with you. There's no telling where you might end up and wherever you did wouldn't be an extension of the existing warp, per se, just another physical place where the warp has been accessed.

The Chaos Gods are older then existence, existed before the sentient races of the milky way, and have wormed their way into other dimensions (such as hyperspace) and other universes. They aren't restrained to merely occupying the Milky Way- the Warp is infinite, timeless, and breaks causality.

I am not sure about this one...people talk a lot about other universe...the universe is a very big place and contain billions of galaxies.

The four chaos gods are a product of this galaxy ( Milky Way ) and I have not heard of another chaos gods from other galaxies....if ther are other life and chaos gods from other galaxy...it is with in the compound of that galaxy. It would be irelevent to this galaxy because the distance. Is just too far apart. GW have not talk about this because each galaxy is just too far apart to make this discussion even remotely important.

The Chaos Gods are only a partial creation of the Milky Way, or may not have truly originated from it. They ignore time/casuality, and existed before their own births (to the point that Slaanesh created Slaanesh). And no, the warp and Chaos is not restrained to the Milky Way. It exists beyond it. The Immaterium ignores all physical laws, and its "size" is not limited to the conventional definition of size. It's an alien realm made of unreality where by traveling it you can arrive at your destination before you left, exit in a completely different sector centuries later, get lost and spend the rest of eternity looking for a way out, etc.

And that's if the Chaos Gods even physically exist. Much like the Tyranids, their body and mind may simply be a distributed consciousness across all of their daemon thralls.

@Wyzilla:
I have tried that approach - the counter argument will be that you probably can't comprehend the vast distances in space between different kinds of systems containing sentient life. That an area containing no life means no Warp... It seems that I don't get anywhere telling that the Warp isn't that simple and straightforward. Good luck though

For the same reason you don't jump into the ocean and swim in random direction to find a better place.

@Wyzillia
If the warp extended beyound this galaxy, then how come nobody ever travel beyound this galaxy?

We have no idea what other galaxies are like so how do we know that Chaos are there too?

The warp infinity is infinity with in the warp, but it is finite in our universe. In other words, the 4 gods are in milky way.....then in galaxy x....there are other chaos gods for the xenons of that galaxy. If say...Khorne exist in galaxy x, then that Khorne has no concept or connection of our Khorne in milky way.
If the chaos gods are that powerful that they have power of the billions galaxies....nothing can stop them....milky way would be a drop of sweat to them.... But that is not the case is it.

BTW- there is no such a thing as other universes...if it exist....then it is part of this universe. Everything that exist and will ever exist is part of this universe and that Is it. If you said that universe b is over there...then universe b is part of this universe.

The multiverse can exist, but each universe will never be in contact or reachable...so it is pointless.

 david choe wrote:
@Wyzillia
If the warp extended beyound this galaxy, then how come nobody ever travel beyound this galaxy?

We have no idea what other galaxies are like so how do we know that Chaos are there too?

The warp infinity is infinity with in the warp, but it is finite in our universe. In other words, the 4 gods are in milky way.....then in galaxy x....there are other chaos gods for the xenons of that galaxy. If say...Khorne exist in galaxy x, then that Khorne has no concept or connection of our Khorne in milky way.
If the chaos gods are that powerful that they have power of the billions galaxies....nothing can stop them....milky way would be a drop of sweat to them.... But that is not the case is it.

That would imply you would ever hear about anyone who went beyond the Milky Way, as 40K lacks FTL coms besides Astropaths. Or for that matter, simply getting eaten by daemons as there is no Astronomicon to protect and guide you. Without the light, and without affiliation with Chaos (and even that isn't guaranteed protection) you're almost certainly going to end up lost- presumed eaten by locals.

Also, considering that run-of-the-mill Daemons can blow up stars, it is far more likely that Chaos is toying with the Milky Way galaxy. Although that also presumes that they even give a damn. You need to stop presuming the Chaos Gods operate under comprehensible means. They're Eldritch Abominations. All material life are ants before them, and it takes exceptional circumstance to cast their dread gaze in your direction and recognize your existence at all. And by the time that they do realize you even exist, you're typically dead.

 Psienesis wrote:
Nothing has outright said that the probe story no longer exists or was changed. It's just a blurb in an old Ork Codex, iirc, that hints that the Orks have spread throughout space, and is told from an Imperial POV.

It also doesn't go into much detail (iirc, it's just some side-bar note, white text in a black box, as they are fond of doing) the main point of it being that "wherever Man goes, he finds the Orks have gone there first" sort of deal.

As previously mentioned, this probe doesn't actually go to any other galaxies, it just went beyond the galactic rim, and my bit up above about Orks settling distant galaxies is entirely made-up, there's nothing that supports that it's ever happened, but nothing to say that it didn't. It's just one of many possible scenarios.

Here is the quote. From WD 118

Millennia ago, a probe was sent out from Terra. Its mission was to reach the utmost limits of the universe. The Techpriests who built it hoped that one day it would arrive back to its place of origin having circumnavigated the universe, or in other words, skirted the edge of reality. This probe is still sending back signals after fourteen thousand years adrift. The signals are faint and the probe is not yet on its way back, if it ever will come back. To the utter despair of the Imperial Techpriests who constantly monitor the incoming signals, many are identified as Orkish. The depressing conclusion for mankind can only be this: that wherever they go, the Orks will always be with them.

When the probe comes back they find out that the Orks have stuck a Radio or something on it to mess with them, so they need to send it back out again

 Wyzilla wrote:

 david choe wrote:
@Wyzillia
If the warp extended beyound this galaxy, then how come nobody ever travel beyound this galaxy?

We have no idea what other galaxies are like so how do we know that Chaos are there too?

The warp infinity is infinity with in the warp, but it is finite in our universe. In other words, the 4 gods are in milky way.....then in galaxy x....there are other chaos gods for the xenons of that galaxy. If say...Khorne exist in galaxy x, then that Khorne has no concept or connection of our Khorne in milky way.
If the chaos gods are that powerful that they have power of the billions galaxies....nothing can stop them....milky way would be a drop of sweat to them.... But that is not the case is it.

That would imply you would ever hear about anyone who went beyond the Milky Way, as 40K lacks FTL coms besides Astropaths. Or for that matter, simply getting eaten by daemons as there is no Astronomicon to protect and guide you. Without the light, and without affiliation with Chaos (and even that isn't guaranteed protection) you're almost certainly going to end up lost- presumed eaten by locals.

Also, considering that run-of-the-mill Daemons can blow up stars, it is far more likely that Chaos is toying with the Milky Way galaxy. Although that also presumes that they even give a damn. You need to stop presuming the Chaos Gods operate under comprehensible means. They're Eldritch Abominations. All material life are ants before them, and it takes exceptional circumstance to cast their dread gaze in your direction and recognize your existence at all. And by the time that they do realize you even exist, you're typically dead.

Well, show me proof then. I know warp is infinite...but are the chaos gods also infinite with in the warp.

Blowing up stars is a joke when we are talking about galaxies. Each galaxy has countless stars. The universe has countless galaxies.

You are telling me that demons have the power to crush grain of sand at the beach.
I don't think you understand the concept of what a galaxy or a universe is.

If chaos were a cosmic power in galatic scale....they can snap a finger and destroyed all of their enemies such as necrons or even tyranids....they don't have that kind of power. They are limited to this galaxy alone and they are part of this galaxy in their infinite warp.

All fluff suggested that chaos are only linked to this galaxy and not beyond.

Chaos power and all factions that are powerful are just one galaxy powerful ( whatever that means).
If you are saying that chaos is universal powerful (power of a billion galaxies)...we have no evidence to suggest this at all.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I think OP has a good point.

GWnever address the issue of warp travel outside of this galaxy and in the void.

My theory...is that the warp is weak in the void because of the emptiness of life...so it is not possible to use the warp travel. Even with FTL tech...it would take a few 100,000 years to reach another galaxy. There are about 500 billions galaxies ....in the universe. To suggest that chaos has its claws all over those billions of galaxies ...is just typical idiotic GW numbers again.

 david choe wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:

Chaospling wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Because it's implied that the Warp is a fairly local thing to the Milky Way. Get much beyond it, into the Void, and the Warp sort of fizzles out into oblivion.

Ok, haven't noticed this being implied. The Void between galaxies or just star systems has no specific physical connection to the Warp, so I don't get your explanation at all.

As noted previously ITT, the Warp is affected by, colored by and made up of psycho-emotive energy that reflects and reacts to the general vibe of mortal creatures in a given area. When the galaxy is relatively calm, the Warp is relatively calm. When it's not, it isn't.

Get too far outside the realm of where mortal creatures dwell, and there's nothing to create, feed or reflect to/from that energy. Would also explain why, as fethed up as Chaos mutations can be, they're still recognizable as something that exists in the mortal plane, even if you don't normally see them in quite that configuration or colors. We don't see, for example, examples of wholly extra-galactic beings as Chaos mutants. Heck, even the Tyranids could be recognizably local in origin (they're insectoid, but not truly alien). This is, perhaps, caused by the limited creative scope of the franchise, but I find it a bit odd that, in its history, there's never been a Chaos gift that made you go "wow, that's certainly from somewhere far, far away".

There's also the fact that, going really far back, most of the Chaos Gods are created by human activity, rather than weird-ass Xenos or just certain emotions based on mortals, regardless of species. This has changed somewhat (when maybe GW realized that it didn't make any sense) but not so much that we can safely say that Khorne is a universal concept, for example.

I think ( don't get upset if I am wrong) he doesn't know that ther are void spaces 10 to 1000 times the size of our galaxy Between each Galaxy. A galaxy is not a universe and in a universe...there are billions of Galaxies.

So the warp is a small dimension compare to the universe and is only a plane that is connected to this galaxy and not the universe...afaik

The point being made that some aren't grasping is that the warp is not a physical location and cannot be quantified in the same way. It is not 'local' and it is not 'milky way sized'. Wherever we go, there is warp. Wherever we've been, there is warp. Wherever we could concievably go, there is warp.

It's another dimension. Where you access it literally does not matter.