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Made in us
Guarded Grey Knight Terminator





 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
The ATF is just applying existing laws in a consistent manner. If you don't like what's happening then you should be complaining about the current laws on armor-piercing ammunition, not the proposed reclassification (with good reasons) of one specific type of 5.56mm ammunition.


This. It's a government agency doing their job in accordance with law, if the law is silly it's not the agency's fault that the outcome is silly because they're not supposed to be allowed to ignore laws they don't feel like following.


As a side note, this applies to judges as well. So the next time you ask "how could the Supreme Court rule X", it's because the law says X, even if it probably should be Y.

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Made in us
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 MWHistorian wrote:
Wait, are there really people that don't think the Democrats aren't trying to ban guns?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/16/us-usa-guns-idUSBRE90F0NU20130116
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/17/us/politics/obama-to-ask-congress-to-toughen-gun-laws.html?_r=0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NY_SAFE_Act

I really could go on and on. (I haven't even gotten to the Brady Campaign which says its better to be raped than defend yourself.)
Spoiler:
The fact that they've tried and failed to ban "assault weapons" and high capacity magazines doesn't mean they won't try again. And after that they'll go after "high caliber sniper rifles" which is any hunting rifle.
Washington DC and Chicago are what they want, guns for the elite, not for the peasants.


http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/12/bruce-w-krafft/just-because-youre-paranoid-about-gun-control-doesnt-mean-they-arent-really-out-to-grab-your-guns/
Spoiler:
I’m really really getting tired of the whole “gun nuts are paranoid about President Obama” meme that the antis are pushing. And pushing. And pushing. The latest culprit is Timothy Egan of The New York Times, author of ‘Gun Nuts in a Rut’, published Thursday:

When it became clear in the early fall of 2008 that Barack Obama, son of a Kansan and a Kenyan, would be the 44th President of the United States, many citizens rushed to their gun shops, stocked up on ammo and camo, and tried to fortify their nests with all manner of lethal weapons.

Though he had said nothing about gun control in the campaign, Obama, to a certain kind of person, appeared to be a grave threat to the Second Amendment. …


That “certain kind of person” would be anyone with an I.Q. above room temperature who had been paying the slightest bit of attention, because Obama’s actions as a legislator spoke volumes about his feelings on the gun issue. Senator Obama’s statements on the campaign trail weren’t any more reassuring. For example:

Obama opposed a bill in the Illinois legislature which would have protected homeowners from weapons charges if they used an “illegal” gun in self-defense.
In a primary debate in 2008, Obama the candidate stated that the second amendment confers an individual right, BUT (there’s always but where the second amendment is concerned) the fact that it is an individual right “does not mean that the state or local government can’t constrain the exercise of that right”. In addition, for a supposed constitutional scholar to state that the Bill of Rights confers rights, rather than protects pre-existing rights is also worrisome.
When running for the Illinois senate in 1996, Obama most assuredly did fill out a questionnaire (despite his later claims that a staffer did it) in which he unequivocally supported a ban on the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns, a ban on the possession of ‘assault weapons’ and waiting periods before purchasing a firearm.
Need I mention the whole “bitter clingers” episode?
Although he claimed to respect the second amendment, he also said that the D.C. gun ban (banning all handguns and operable long guns) was constitutional. When pressed for his rationale, he said there was nothing wrong with a community establishing their own “reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure[s]” while still respecting the second amendment. Did you catch that? A complete ban is his idea of a reasonable gun control measure.
In the Illinois legislature, he supported licensing and registering gun owners as a measure to keep unlawful guns off the street. This purported constitutional scholar was apparently unaware that the supreme court has ruled that criminals don’t need to register (and can’t be punished for failing to register) their guns because it would be a violation of their right against self-incrimination.
In 2000 Obama cosponsored a bill to limit gun purchases to one per month and in 2003 he voted in favor of HB 2579 which had the same one gun per month provision.
According to a Chicago Defender article in December of 1999, “Obama is proposing to make it a felony for a gun owner whose firearm was stolen from his residence which causes harm to another person if that weapon was not securely stored in that home.”
At an NAACP forum in 2007 Obama stated “We’ve got to make sure that unscrupulous gun dealers aren’t loading up vans and dumping guns in our communities, because we know they’re not made in our communities.” What?!? Is that what he really thinks? That federally licensed gun dealers are loading up vehicles and selling guns out of the back in inner cities?
In the Illinois senate he supported a confiscatory ‘assault weapons’ ban which would have included semi-auto shotguns and even some pump, double and single barrel shotguns.
As a Presidential candidate he called for passage of H.R. 6257, deceptively titled “Assault Weapons Ban Reauthorization Act of 2008″ which would have explicitly banned far more weapons than the Clinton AWB.
As a Senator, Obama voted against prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers and voted in favor of an amendment to that bill which would have banned most rifle ammunition, under the guise of banning ‘armor-piercing’ ammunition.
As a Senator Obama did not sign the amicus brief supporting the individual rights view in Heller v. DC.
Obama voted to ban gun stores within five miles of a school or park, which would have eliminated most gun stores in America.
He supported legislation to “close the gun show loophole” which would have imprisoned show organizers if a single person at a show offered a gun for sale privately.
As a Senator, Obama stated he supported a federal ban on concealed carry laws and as a Presidential candidate he told the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review “‘I am not in favor of concealed weapons,’ Obama said. ‘I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations.'”
Barack Obama’s actions as President have done nothing to change our perceptions, either. On his first day in office, on the White House website, under “Urban Policy” we found this gem posted:

Obama and Biden would repeal the Tiahrt Amendment, which restricts the ability of local law enforcement to access important gun trace information, and give police officers across the nation the tools they need to solve gun crimes and fight the illegal arms trade. Obama and Biden also favor commonsense measures that respect the Second Amendment rights of gun owners, while keeping guns away from children and from criminals. They support closing the gun show loophole and making guns in this country childproof. They also support making the expired federal Assault Weapons Ban permanent.

See above regarding how little the Obama AWB resembed the Clinton-era AWB. When he talks about keeping guns away from children, what he’s really talking about are various blue-sky proposals to make guns “childproof.”

And who can forget the Obama Administration’s employment questionnaire Question 59: “Do you or any members of your immediate family own a gun? If so, provide complete ownership and registration information. Has the registration ever lapsed? Please also describe how and by whom it is used and whether it has been the cause of any personal injuries or property damage.”

Once Obama had settled into power, there were more ‘indicators’ of his anti-gun feelings:

In March, 2009 the DoD ‘revised’ its policy on the disposal of once-fired brass. Instead of selling it to consumers and domestic agencies for reloading, all once-fired brass from the military would be shredded and sold as scrap. This policy was reversed fairly quickly after outraged shooters contacted their legislators and Senators Tester and Baucus (both D-MT) faxed a letter to the DoD asking them to change the policy. The fact that Senator Tester was Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee might have had something to do with the quick volte-face.
The DHS report, Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment [.pdf] which cited as a key finding: “The possible passage of new restrictions on firearms and the return of military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups or lone wolf extremists capable of carrying out violent attacks.”
In April of 2009, President Obama announced he wanted the Senate to ratify the Inter-American Convention Against The Illicit Manufacturing Of And Trafficking In Firearms, Ammunition, Explosives, And Other Related Materials (called by its Spanish acronym of CIFTA for obvious reasons). A close look at the Definitions section of the treaty reveals that it would require a government license for “the manufacture or assembly of firearms, ammunition, explosives, and other related materials”. That doesn’t sound too bad, right? I mean we sort of have that now, don’t we? But the devil, as they say, is in the details. Or, in this case, the definitions, because the way they’re written, you could be required to get a government license to reload ammo, add or change out a scope on a rifle, replace a factory trigger with an upgraded one, or even so much as load a weapon. Preposterous you say? Look at how they define “other related materials.” Go ahead, I’ll wait. Back? Okay, when they say “any component, part, or replacement part of a firearm, or an accessory which can be attached to a firearm” you think an anti-gun administration wouldn’t say that applies to magazines and ammo? So – technically – putting rounds in a mag or a mag in a weapon would constitute “assembly” which would require a license. So how much will the license cost? What will the application process be? Will it be “shall-issue” or “may-issue”? How long will it be good for? How much will it cost to renew? All of these details could be used to drastically reduce gun ownership.
The Obama administration reversed a decision to import over 800,000 surplus M-1 rifles and carbines from South Korea. Not only are these weapons of some historical significance, but their arrival on the market would reduce prices on these sorts of weapons, at least in the relatively short term. The rationale (or perhaps rationalization would be a better term) given to the South Korean government for the decision was that the administration “was also worried the weapons could be smuggled to terrorists, gangs or other people with bad intentions.” Well that tells us something interesting. Since all of these rifles would have been sold through FFLs, the Obama administration is saying they believe every firearm sale in the country could put guns in the hands of “terrorists, gangs or other people with bad intentions.” And they call us paranoid.
Under the Obama administration, the CDC did an end-run around the decade-old prohibition on performing research on gun control issues by maintaining they were not researching the gun issue, “rather they deal with the surrounding web of circumstances.” When Republicans in Congress questioned why money was being spent on these sorts of studies, an NIH spokesman replied “Gun-related violence is a public health problem – it diverts considerable health care resources away from other problems and, therefore, is of interest to NIH.” But wait, aren’t you supposed to do the studies before you come to the conclusion that guns have a net negative impact on public health? See, coming to conclusions and then ginning up research to support them is what got Congress to implement the ban in the first place.
Fast & Furious and the whole “90% of illegal weapons in Mexico come from the U.S.” with the subsequent unlawful and unconstitutional long gun sales reporting requirement implemented by the ATF via bureaucratic fiat. And please, don’t even try to say “But Bush did it first!” Under oath, Attorney General Holder stated that he would not equate F&F with Operation Wide Receiver. Among other things, under OWR the ATF informed the Mexicans when, where and in what kind of car guns were crossing the border while under F&F not only were the Mexicans kept in the dark, the ATF liaison officers in Mexico were kept in the dark.
Under the Obama administration the ATF suddenly reversed a forty-two year old ruling, stating that “[t]he temporary assignment of a firearm by an FFL to its unlicensed agents, contractors, volunteers, or any other person who is not an employee of the FFL, even for bona fide business purposes, is a transfer or disposition for purposes of the Gun Control Act” which then requires that the transfer be processed by an FFL, complete with NICS check and a 4473, lengthening the transfer process considerably.
In an op-ed for the Arizona Star, Obama capitalized on the Tucson shooting, calling for more gun control. Except he didn’t call it ‘gun control’, he called it “sound and effective steps that will actually keep those irresponsible, law-breaking few from getting their hands on a gun in the first place”.
Then there was this piece in the Huffington Post in which Obama admitted that he could not achieve gun control through legislation, so “only executive orders or administrative actions — and not an actual bill — are expected to be handed to Congress.” What was it Bill Clinton’s aide said? “Stroke of the pen. Law of the land. Kinda cool.” Yeah, who needs that whole “work within constitutional limits” stuff anyway, right?
So the next time some ignorant anti says “But Obama hasn’t done anything on gun control . . . why are you so paranoid?” give them chapter and verse. Not that facts ever make much of an impression on hoplophobes.


http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/02/foghorn/debunking-the-myth-that-no-one-wants-to-take-your-guns/

 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
{paranoid article}


So if we assume that actions speak louder than words and look at what Obama and his party have done recently, instead of what they have talked about doing and then ignored once the latest shooting was forgotten, we have two things:

1) They ended or tried to end a couple of programs that gun owners benefited from, which is only "gun control" if you assume that you have a right to have the federal government sell you cheap guns and ammunition.

2) They allowed the CDC to research gun violence, which is only "gun control" if you assume that you have a right to enforce a rule that your tax money can't be spent on researching things you don't want the government to learn about.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






 Peregrine wrote:
 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
{paranoid article}


So if we assume that actions speak louder than words and look at what Obama and his party have done recently, instead of what they have talked about doing and then ignored once the latest shooting was forgotten, we have two things:

1) They ended or tried to end a couple of programs that gun owners benefited from, which is only "gun control" if you assume that you have a right to have the federal government sell you cheap guns and ammunition.

2) They allowed the CDC to research gun violence, which is only "gun control" if you assume that you have a right to enforce a rule that your tax money can't be spent on researching things you don't want the government to learn about.

Administration has done nothing to attempt to advance gun control;
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/08/obama-gun-control-speech-_n_3040363.html
"Obama is hoping to build support among lawmakers for several gun control measures, including universal background checks for gun buyers. The Senate is expected to take up gun control legislation as early as this week.

The president has invited 11 parents of children killed in Newtown to fly back to Washington with him aboard Air Force One after his speech. The parents are set to lobby Congress this week for gun control measures, although it may be too late to rescue major legislation sought by Obama.

Some of Obama's proposals - reinstating a U.S. ban on assault weapons and cracking down on high-capacity ammunition clips - already appear to have little chance of passing the Democratic-led Senate, let alone the Republican-controlled House of Representatives."

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/16/16544842-obama-unveils-sweeping-new-gun-control-proposals?lite
"While there is no law or set of laws that can prevent every senseless act of violence completely, no piece of legislation that will prevent every tragedy, every act of evil," Obama said at a mid-day announcement at the White House, "if there's even one thing we can do to reduce this violence, if there's even one life that can be saved, then we've got an obligation to try it.
. . .
Some of the main legislative proposals backed by Obama and Vice President Joe Biden are:

requiring criminal background checks on all gun sales, including private sales
banning "military-style" assault weapons
limiting ammunition magazines to 10 rounds
strengthening penalties for gun trafficking "

I recounted our POTUS's disdain for firearms, and his attempts to reduce gun ownership. You tried to brand it as "paranoid". I think I can safely end this discussion with you at this point.

 
   
Made in us
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 Ma55ter_fett wrote:
What will I load into my Chinese assault rifle after getting kicked out of the vault?


Uh, just go get dynamite from Vegas! Duh

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North West Arkansas

The BATF&E came about after prohibition, they had all these agents about to be out of work and bam! Here's a new agency... yay!!!


Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and to hear the lamentations of the women.

Twitter @Kelly502Inf 
   
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Cincinnati, Ohio

 Da krimson barun wrote:
Thanks.Very helpful.You import Irish whiskey because its better then yours I guess.Also because it isnt designed to kill people. Maybe because you dont need to reference a law that says only well organized militias can have it.


I'm only three generations removed from the homeland (great grandparents immigrated) and I don't think the Irish even make the best whiskey in the UK. If you think Irish Whiskey is better than some Kentucky bourbon, you're just fooling yourself. And I love some Bushmill's 16.

 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






Yall wrong. Straight Vodka is where is is at

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Yall wrong. Straight Vodka is where is is at


You'll grow out of that stage soon.

Then you will start appreciating finer things about good liquor rather than just hammering ruskie juice until you pass out.

"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" 
   
Made in us
Colonel





This Is Where the Fish Lives

 Kelly502 wrote:
The BATF&E came about after prohibition, they had all these agents about to be out of work and bam! Here's a new agency... yay!!!

Not exactly... The Bureau and it's predecessors spent most of their 200 year history as part of the Treasury Department.

The ATF traces it's roots to the formation of Office of Internal Revenue within the Department of the Treasury in 1862. From their formation then until the Volstead Act in the 30s, they were a department of the Treasury. In the early 1930 they were transferred to the DoJ but then re-transferred back to the Treasury in 1933. In 1972 they because an independent Bureau reporting directly to the U.S. Department of Treasury’s Office of Enforcement, Tariff and Trade Affairs, and Operations.They were again transferred back to the DoJ in 2003 by the Bush Administration as a result of the Homeland Security Act of 2002.

 d-usa wrote:
"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
 
   
Made in us
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North West Arkansas

I'm a meathead. I can't help it, man. You've got smart people and you've got dumb people.

Keanu Reeves




Automatically Appended Next Post:
In 1972 ATF was established as a separate bureau within the Treasury Department when Treasury Department Order 221, effective July 1, 1972, transferred the responsibilities of the ATF division of the IRS to the new Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. Rex D. Davis oversaw the transition, becoming the bureau's first director, having headed the division since 1970. During his tenure, Davis shepherded the organization into a new era where federal firearms and explosives laws addressing violent crime became the primary mission of the agency.[9] However, taxation and other alcohol issues remained priorities as ATF collected billions of dollars in alcohol and tobacco taxes, and undertook major revisions of the federal wine labeling regulations relating to use of appellations of origin and varietal designations on wine labels.

In the wake of the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, on September 11, 2001 President George W. Bush signed into law the Homeland Security Act of 2002. In addition to the creation of the Department of Homeland Security, the law shifted ATF from the Department of the Treasury to the Department of Justice. The agency's name was changed to Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives. However, the agency still was referred to as the "ATF" for all purposes. Additionally, the task of collection of federal tax revenue derived from the production of tobacco and alcohol products and the regulatory function related to protecting the public in issues related to the production of alcohol, previously handled by the Bureau of Internal Revenue as well as by ATF, was transferred to the newly established Alcohol and Tobacco Tax and Trade Bureau (TTB), which remained within the Treasury Department. These changes took effect January 24, 2003.


Here's a little more copy and paste...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/28 03:15:53


Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and to hear the lamentations of the women.

Twitter @Kelly502Inf 
   
Made in us
Sniping Reverend Moira





Cincinnati, Ohio

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Yall wrong. Straight Vodka is where is is at


Yeah, no thanks.

I'd rather spend $15 on a good 22oz BBA RIS than $10 on some gakky plastic handle of vodka.

 
   
Made in us
Colonel





This Is Where the Fish Lives

Yes, the AFT became an independent bureau in 1972, but you're missing the "The Bureau and it's predecessors" line. The ATF as we know it today is the end result of over 200 years of federal law enforcement, with a majority of that time spent in as a part of the Treasury. Besides, the stuff you are copying and pasting doesn't support your claim that "the BATF&E came about after prohibition, they had all these agents about to be out of work" as the Volstead Act was repealed by the Blaine Act in 1933, some 39 years before the ATF became an independent bureau.


Also, I don't need you to copy and paste. I know what the ATF is and I can read.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/28 03:25:26


 d-usa wrote:
"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






 cincydooley wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Yall wrong. Straight Vodka is where is is at


Yeah, no thanks.

I'd rather spend $15 on a good 22oz BBA RIS than $10 on some gakky plastic handle of vodka.

Hey...its glass, now if you excuse my i have a paper to write on while completely hammer

5000pts 6000pts 3000pts
 
   
Made in us
Colonel





This Is Where the Fish Lives

 cincydooley wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Yall wrong. Straight Vodka is where is is at


Yeah, no thanks.

I'd rather spend $15 on a good 22oz BBA RIS than $10 on some gakky plastic handle of vodka.
I'll second that.

Hotsauce, your tastes will mature in time.

 d-usa wrote:
"When the Internet sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending posters that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing strawmen. They're bringing spam. They're trolls. And some, I assume, are good people."
 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Yall wrong. Straight Vodka is where is is at


Yeah, no thanks.

I'd rather spend $15 on a good 22oz BBA RIS than $10 on some gakky plastic handle of vodka.
I'll second that.

Hotsauce, your tastes will mature in time.

NEVER!!!! Vodka and tampico for life

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Decrepit Dakkanaut






 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Yall wrong. Straight Vodka is where is is at


Yeah, no thanks.

I'd rather spend $15 on a good 22oz BBA RIS than $10 on some gakky plastic handle of vodka.
I'll second that.

Hotsauce, your tastes will mature in time.

NEVER!!!! Vodka and tampico for life


Never tell someone young what's better for we were once that age to.

Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
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Made in us
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On moon miranda.

I'm not hopping into the discussion over whether to defund the ATF or blame Obama or whatnot.

I just find the idea that banning a certain type of ammunition because it meets a specific regulatory statute regarding metal content and its ability to defeat L2 or L3a body armor to be asinine when *any* type of ammunition of the round in question will defeat L2 & L3a body armor, regardless of metal content or design intent, simply because such armor was never intended to provide protection against weapons that would fire such a caliber in the first place.

It's one of those regulatory things where the letter of the law is overrunning the common sense of the people involved and the reality of the situation.

IRON WITHIN, IRON WITHOUT.

New Heavy Gear Log! Also...Grey Knights!
The correct pronunciation is Imperial Guard and Stormtroopers, "Astra Militarum" and "Tempestus Scions" are something you'll find at Hogwarts.  
   
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:
 cincydooley wrote:
 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Yall wrong. Straight Vodka is where is is at


Yeah, no thanks.

I'd rather spend $15 on a good 22oz BBA RIS than $10 on some gakky plastic handle of vodka.
I'll second that.

Hotsauce, your tastes will mature in time.

NEVER!!!! Vodka and tampico for life


No way, Captain Morgan's and Dr. Pepper for life. Cheap and tastes great

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Douglas Bader






 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
I recounted our POTUS's disdain for firearms, and his attempts to reduce gun ownership. You tried to brand it as "paranoid". I think I can safely end this discussion with you at this point.


You're right, it is paranoid. Because, again, actions speak louder than words. And what do your own sources say? That back in 2013 Obama talked about gun control. And what exactly did he do after that? Absolutely nothing. It never went beyond talk, and once the previous shooting left the front page of the news everyone forgot about those gun control proposals. Because it turns out that nobody has any interest in using gun control as more than a propaganda stunt to appeal to certain left-leaning voters.

Also, let's not forget that the previous republican president also expressed similar support for bans on "assault weapons", so this isn't limited to Obama and the democrats.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
The Conquerer






Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

Talk is still a dangerous thing. And believe me, if they actually felt they could get that legislation passed they would do so. And besides, they're not stupid. They know they have to chip away slowly with minor regulation and grandstanding. They're playing a long game. We should have none of it.

Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines

Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
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 Grey Templar wrote:
Talk is still a dangerous thing. And believe me, if they actually felt they could get that legislation passed they would do so. And besides, they're not stupid. They know they have to chip away slowly with minor regulation and grandstanding. They're playing a long game. We should have none of it.


Considering Obama is near the end of his term and Republicans hold house majority, I don't think gun owners should be that concerned about it. If Obama wanted to take away all the gunz, he would've tried to push more rather than pushing Obamacare.

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Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

You're not gonna sell a lot of guns with that kinda talk, son.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
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 Grey Templar wrote:
And believe me, if they actually felt they could get that legislation passed they would do so.


So why didn't they do it back in 2009 when they had control of both houses of congress and a president who was supposedly eager to sign any gun control laws congress could produce? Why didn't they stop talking about it and start taking some guns away? The indisputable fact is that the democrats had a perfect opportunity to pass all the gun control laws they could invent and instead they did nothing but talk. The people panic buying the entire inventory of every gun store in their area did way more to limit access to guns than Obama's supposed "gun control agenda".

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
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 Peregrine wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
And believe me, if they actually felt they could get that legislation passed they would do so.


So why didn't they do it back in 2009 when they had control of both houses of congress and a president who was supposedly eager to sign any gun control laws congress could produce? Why didn't they stop talking about it and start taking some guns away? The indisputable fact is that the democrats had a perfect opportunity to pass all the gun control laws they could invent and instead they did nothing but talk. The people panic buying the entire inventory of every gun store in their area did way more to limit access to guns than Obama's supposed "gun control agenda".


because there are actually a fair few democrats who oppose gun control AND at that time it would still have been political suicide to attempt. Just because your party has control doesn't mean you can do whatever you want.

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 Grey Templar wrote:
because there are actually a fair few democrats who oppose gun control AND at that time it would still have been political suicide to attempt. Just because your party has control doesn't mean you can do whatever you want.


Ok, now what reason is there to believe that either of these things will change in the foreseeable future?

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
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 Grey Templar wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
And believe me, if they actually felt they could get that legislation passed they would do so.


So why didn't they do it back in 2009 when they had control of both houses of congress and a president who was supposedly eager to sign any gun control laws congress could produce? Why didn't they stop talking about it and start taking some guns away? The indisputable fact is that the democrats had a perfect opportunity to pass all the gun control laws they could invent and instead they did nothing but talk. The people panic buying the entire inventory of every gun store in their area did way more to limit access to guns than Obama's supposed "gun control agenda".


because there are actually a fair few democrats who oppose gun control AND at that time it would still have been political suicide to attempt. Just because your party has control doesn't mean you can do whatever you want.


Yep. Instead, push gun control when your party leader is almost out of office and you hold, what, a 2-3 majority? That makes sense Besides, factoring in those few Democrats who oppose gun control, that pushes minority further.

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 Peregrine wrote:
 Grey Templar wrote:
because there are actually a fair few democrats who oppose gun control AND at that time it would still have been political suicide to attempt. Just because your party has control doesn't mean you can do whatever you want.


Ok, now what reason is there to believe that either of these things will change in the foreseeable future?


Its not because things will change, its because they might change. We have to be guarded against the possibility.

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Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.

MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! 
   
Made in us
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 Ouze wrote:
You're not gonna sell a lot of guns with that kinda talk, son.


Oh, sorry. "Obama wants to melt my guns down into free healthcare, social security, and jobs for the illegals!!!" Am I doing it rite?

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 jreilly89 wrote:
Oh, sorry. "Obama wants to melt my guns down into free healthcare, social security, and jobs for the illegals!!!" Am I doing it rite?


You forgot that he wants the terrorists to win.


   
 
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