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I know that HH Emperor could directly control his form and how tall he appeared to people, but what about the body seated on the Golden Throne in M41?

The space marine helmet placed next to him in the Blanche art looks positively huge compared to his head. His body seems actually pretty small which isn't too ridiculous considering 10,000 years of decay.

Since he was probably in his big guy meat suit while fighting Horus, I would assume he's probably as tall as a primarch - 9-10 ft tall -

About 42 pounds.

He is a powerful enough psyker to change his physical appearance, but his true size is about as big as a normal human.

Twelvety.

There is no established figure, however he is often depicted as being as tall as his sons who would be in the region of 8-9ft tall. However he also lived for many years in regular human mode, so would have been anywhere between 5 and 6ish ft tall.

Whether he has a "true" form is not known.

If we are now talking about the Emperor's size when he was alive, then it's worth mentioning the passage from Unremembered Empire where Guilliman and the Lion enter the room in the Fortress of Hera where Guilliman has set up a table with chairs for each Primarch, along with one for the Emperor:

The light of the late afternoon, discoloured by the storm, flooded the chamber through high windows. A long table, carved from stone, dominated the length of the room. Around it were twenty-one chairs, all built for the scale of a primarch. Each one was cut from the same mountain granite as the table.
The chair backs were draped with banners. The great seat, at the head of the long table was draped with the pennant of Terra.

So it appears the Emperor was primarch-sized - or at the least favoured that size around his sons.

I do not mean hh emperor, I mean the corpse on the golden throne.

Well the Golden Throne was built to fit him, so since he presumably still fits he's probably around the same size as when he was alive. Just maybe shrivelled up a bit.

If I recall....

He can change his size at will or something. But his "normal" size is like 6 or 7 feet tall

Man people...read the question by the OT please.

HE is Talking aBout the dead body on the golden throne in 40,000! Stop talking about when he was alive.....!

The truth is nobody knows, because we just assume it is average human size mummy.....because of art work and our common sense of what a mummy size is.

Since GW never mentioned it....we have to assume it is normal mummy size and not some freak giantic 20 feet tall mummy.

I'm sure he's shrivelled up and dessicated over time

 david choe wrote:
Man people...read the question by the OT please.

HE is Talking aBout the dead body on the golden throne in 40,000! Stop talking about when he was alive.....!

The truth is nobody knows, because we just assume it is average human size mummy.....because of art work and our common sense of what a mummy size is.

Since GW never mentioned it....we have to assume it is normal mummy size and not some freak giantic 20 feet tall mummy.

But why normal human-sized? It's not like we cannot mummify 10 feet human, since the basic procedure of producing a mummy (human) is not affect by the size of the carcass, as long as it is human. Also the emperor is probably not a mummy, just dried up flesh and bones. Besides, the Golden Throne is actually some very ancient construct whose size is unknown. So we have no reference for size, what-so-ever. There is no reason to just "assume it is normal mummy size and not some freak giantic 20 feet tall mummy."

 lcmiracle wrote:

 david choe wrote:
Man people...read the question by the OT please.

HE is Talking aBout the dead body on the golden throne in 40,000! Stop talking about when he was alive.....!

The truth is nobody knows, because we just assume it is average human size mummy.....because of art work and our common sense of what a mummy size is.

Since GW never mentioned it....we have to assume it is normal mummy size and not some freak giantic 20 feet tall mummy.

But why normal human-sized? It's not like we cannot mummify 10 feet human, since the basic procedure of producing a mummy (human) is not affect by the size of the carcass, as long as it is human. Also the emperor is probably not a mummy, just dried up flesh and bones. Besides, the Golden Throne is actually some very ancient construct whose size is unknown. So we have no reference for size, what-so-ever. There is no reason to just "assume it is normal mummy size and not some freak giantic 20 feet tall mummy."

First off, he is a human...it is understood that anything abnormal that is out of human scale,...must be stated by the writer of the story. Like he is a 20ft tall corpse or he had 4 arms, etc... None was written..so we assume normal.

second, mummy doesn't mean wrap up in a cloth like Pharos corpse from Egypt. It can also means a corpse that is dried and preserved..he has been dead for 10,000 years...any corpse would have been rotten to the bone by now...he is not...so he is a mummy.

Trust me, whether the Emperor can even be considered human is debatable. However if he is, then his bones won't just shrink, especially not while it's being maintained, however poorly.

He was about the same height as the Primarchs, so if he is a human, then his "remains" would resemble his height while "alive" (a 20-foot humanoid wouldn't shrink to just 10 feet tall, so even if his bones did disintegrate, it'd still resemble the remains of a giant.); and if he isn't human, then any references to the normal human scale is irrelevant.

 lcmiracle wrote:
Trust me, whether the Emperor can even be considered human is debatable. However if he is, then his bones won't just shrink, especially not while it's being maintained, however poorly.

He was about the same height as the Primarchs, so if he is a human, then his "remains" would resemble his height while "alive" (a 20-foot humanoid wouldn't shrink to just 10 feet tall, so even if his bones did disintegrate, it'd still resemble the remains of a giant.); and if he isn't human, then any references to the normal human scale is irrelevant.

Do you not understand that when reading something from a human POV (US) ... you have to write it out if it is not of average quality. If they don't ... then it is left to interpretation..which most would assume laws of average.

In this case...he was man....he can change shape and sizes, but he didn't at the fight or it should have stated so...so he died in his man size... so his body is a mummified man size body. Why are you saying 20ft... Most average Primach are not 20ft tall.

Lets look at his terminator armor before he die... was it a dreadnought size? I think it was normal Terminator armor. He was fighting in Horus ship... I don't think they design ship so 20ft tall giants can walk around every hall way.

All we have are art work and fluff. All flufll never stated that the emperor is a giant corpse .... so we have to assume he has 2 arms and legs and 1 head and man size. All art work illustrated as normal man size or a bit bigger or smaller... never a freaking giant.

The Golden Throne was built for Magnus to occupy, so I'm guessing he's Primarch sized if he fits in it fine. Otherwise anything less than that I guess. And I don't see how discussing his size while he was alive is irrelevant, it might give us a clue to his size when he's nearly dead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 david choe wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:
Trust me, whether the Emperor can even be considered human is debatable. However if he is, then his bones won't just shrink, especially not while it's being maintained, however poorly.

He was about the same height as the Primarchs, so if he is a human, then his "remains" would resemble his height while "alive" (a 20-foot humanoid wouldn't shrink to just 10 feet tall, so even if his bones did disintegrate, it'd still resemble the remains of a giant.); and if he isn't human, then any references to the normal human scale is irrelevant.

Do you not understand that when reading something from a human POV (US) ... you have to write it out if it is not of average quality. If they don't ... then it is left to interpretation..which most would assume laws of average.

In this case...he was man....he can change shape and sizes, but he didn't at the fight or it should have stated so...so he died in his man size... so his body is a mummified man size body. Why are you saying 20ft... Most average Primach are not 20ft tall.

Lets look at his terminator armor before he die... was it a dreadnought size? I think it was normal Terminator armor. He was fighting in Horus ship... I don't think they design ship so 20ft tall giants can walk around every hall way.

All we have are art work and fluff. All flufll never stated that the emperor is a giant corpse .... so we have to assume he has 2 arms and legs and 1 head and man size. All art work illustrated as normal man size or a bit bigger or smaller... never a freaking giant.

I think you need to read what you're quoting more carefully. First of all, the fight between Horus and the Emperor hasn't been written about in detail yet, so we don't know his size there. All the art of it puts him at a similar size to Horus though. Also, he said 20ft as an example, not that Primarchs were 20ft tall. All art of the Emperor has him as Primarch sized, not normal human sized. Fluff also hasn't stated anything about the size of his corpse. So we don't know.

Don't forget, Magnus was the biggest of the Primarchs, so the Emperor would have to be pretty large to fill the seat.


Can only assume that his psychic might has stopped his body from decaying into a pile of dust, I'm pretty sure that a body in the open cannot remain so for ten thousand years, plus the Golden Throne is also a life support machine.

I suspect that it's over 9000.

 david choe wrote:
In this case...he was man....he can change shape and sizes, but he didn't at the fight or it should have stated so...so he died in his man size...

The Emperor didn't die during the battle. He was still conscious and giving instructions, which is how he came to be entombed in the golden throne. He was also still communicating openly for quite some time afterwards, and even though he's not as loquacious these days, there's no actual evidence that he's dead.


So given that, and the fact that he had a tendency to appear different at will, there's no evidence that whatever anyone sees on the throne has any resemblance to what he actually looks like, even now.

He was fighting in Horus ship... I don't think they design ship so 20ft tall giants can walk around every hall way..

At the very least it would have been designed so that Horus could walk around it... And several stories have dreadnoughts walking freely around Imperial ships.

Hell there's stories about cranes the size of Titans on these ships. They're like the size of towns. Also, again, no one said he was 20ft tall. The 20ft was an example.

OK The emperor was 9000ft tall then. I choose that .

Yes, I know he almost die at the battle and they got him back... he left a few instruction, etc...

How tall was Horus? 90feet tall? Come on... he was big but not 20 ft tall.

Why are you guys claiming unusual as a must be? It is so silly.

I am saying nobody knows the size.. but it must be normal because of reasons that it wasn't stated as such.

No one said anyone was 20ft tall... Are you being obtuse on purpose?

 ImAGeek wrote:
Hell there's stories about cranes the size of Titans on these ships. They're like the size of towns. Also, again, no one said he was 20ft tall. The 20ft was an example.

LOL... yeah dude.. I know that ship is big... I have picture of Battle fleet gothic too. The Emperor lived on earth and there are mountains too... so he should be rolling around the mountain and use volcano as his toliet?


I mean.. this discussion is getting comical.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ImAGeek wrote:
No one said anyone was 20ft tall... Are you being obtuse on purpose?

Then what size is he... I say man size... and debate.. 20ft debate.

Pick a number from 8 to 19 then? I mean come on man.

Man size is man size.. it could be a large man... like 8ft or 9ft tall

 david choe wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
Hell there's stories about cranes the size of Titans on these ships. They're like the size of towns. Also, again, no one said he was 20ft tall. The 20ft was an example.

LOL... yeah dude.. I know that ship is big... I have picture of Battle fleet gothic too. The Emperor lived on earth and there are mountains too... so he should be rolling around the mountain and use volcano as his toliet?


I mean.. this discussion is getting comical.

I don't even know what you're reading anymore, but it's certainly not what we're writing.

Everything that says anything about the emperors size has him either changing his size, or the size of the Primarchs. And he fits in the Golden Throne, which was designed for Magnus, who is the largest Primarch. All the art has him the same size as Horus. So why are you saying 'it wasn't stated as being bigger than man sized'? Because it has been, and examples of such have been given in this thread...

 david choe wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:
Trust me, whether the Emperor can even be considered human is debatable. However if he is, then his bones won't just shrink, especially not while it's being maintained, however poorly.

He was about the same height as the Primarchs, so if he is a human, then his "remains" would resemble his height while "alive" (a 20-foot humanoid wouldn't shrink to just 10 feet tall, so even if his bones did disintegrate, it'd still resemble the remains of a giant.); and if he isn't human, then any references to the normal human scale is irrelevant.

Do you not understand that when reading something from a human POV (US) ... you have to write it out if it is not of average quality. If they don't ... then it is left to interpretation..which most would assume laws of average.

In this case...he was man....he can change shape and sizes, but he didn't at the fight or it should have stated so...so he died in his man size... so his body is a mummified man size body. Why are you saying 20ft... Most average Primach are not 20ft tall.

Lets look at his terminator armor before he die... was it a dreadnought size? I think it was normal Terminator armor. He was fighting in Horus ship... I don't think they design ship so 20ft tall giants can walk around every hall way.

All we have are art work and fluff. All flufll never stated that the emperor is a giant corpse .... so we have to assume he has 2 arms and legs and 1 head and man size. All art work illustrated as normal man size or a bit bigger or smaller... never a freaking giant.

First, how do you know he didn't fight with Horus, THE HORUS, who was a consistent Giant, as a giant? Why would you expect the Emperor being a giant be stated? Every time when the Emperor is described in the Horus Heresy Novels, he is stated to be a giant of man, approximating or over the size of a Primarch. It would be the Emperor choosing to fight Horus in a normal human size body against Horus that needs explicitly stated, not the other way around. The 20ft to 10ft example is to illustrate a point: mummified figured don't become much shorter, at most they lost the few inches of skin fat. If a person was a giant in life, its mummified carcass would have distinctively shown it was a giant; petrification or degradation of the organic components don't change that, either.

As for if an Imperial Ship is designed to allow room for a dreadnought -- yes. A dreadnought was involved in one boarding action against the Hrafnkel, a Battlebarg and a flagship of Leman Russ. The deck spaces can easily allow a dreadnough fighting like a champ. While there are narrow passageways, in all instances, like the lowerdeck shrine depicted in Flight of the Einseinstein can easily allow passage of several Space Marines walking side by side. The ships are not small, nor are their corridors.

Furthermore, "All art work illustrated as normal man size or a bit bigger or smaller" -- I bet to differ:

Exhibit A: Emperor against Horus, which is found in the Horus Heresy-Collected Visions - somewhere, and is now in the 7th Edition codex, under the section Beginning of the End, clearly shows the Emperor is larger than normal space marines, note the Sons of Horus Legionaire in the foreground. The reason Horus is so much larger is unclear, it could be his normal height, or that he is warp grown to that size.


Exhibit B: in the Collected Visions, page 150, there is this image, titled The Hands of the Emperor, by Sam Wood:

Just to show you how large the Emperor is/was. Note the man on the left is Constantin Valdor, the Custodian, and to the Emperor's right is a Sister of Silence, a "normal human female", in the sense that she is a psychic null but of human-size.

You keep saying the Emperor is never depicted to be a giant despite me (and probably a whole heap of others) kept telling you the Emperor is always potrayed to be around or over the height of a Primarch and Primarchs are always described as giants to astartes/space marines, and space marines are taller than humans simply annoying and borderline ignorant. Please stop doing that.

Lastly, the corpse of the Emperor is also never stated to be of "normal human" size, either; if he were described to be a giant while alive, shouldn't it be more logical to assume his carcass is also that of a giant?

 ImAGeek wrote:

 david choe wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
Hell there's stories about cranes the size of Titans on these ships. They're like the size of towns. Also, again, no one said he was 20ft tall. The 20ft was an example.

LOL... yeah dude.. I know that ship is big... I have picture of Battle fleet gothic too. The Emperor lived on earth and there are mountains too... so he should be rolling around the mountain and use volcano as his toliet?


I mean.. this discussion is getting comical.

I don't even know what you're reading anymore, but it's certainly not what we're writing.

Everything that says anything about the emperors size has him either changing his size, or the size of the Primarchs. And he fits in the Golden Throne, which was designed for Magnus, who is the largest Primarch. All the art has him the same size as Horus. So why are you saying 'it wasn't stated as being bigger than man sized'? Because it has been, and examples of such have been given in this thread...

Well you are talking about freaking Titans spaces... in a ship... you think they have titans walking around at the Horus bridge? That is a straw man argument. So I joke with volcanos.

You don't think they have booster seat for the baby emperor? Not a joke. He was dying ...

The point is nobody knows. The last thing I choose is to go by pictures. Do you remember Rouge traitor version? He looked like he was from Alien with all the crap stuck on him and his body was black with fat gigantic head and a baby like body?

I think he was man sizes like human sizes... he choose to be back as human and to ruled as human... he doesn't want his subject to view him as some god like giant.. he wants to be view as just a normal man.

I was making a point of the size of the ships, not saying there were Titans walking around. Who's strawmanning now?

So basically what you're saying is because you think he's human sized, you're going to ignore any evidence to the contrary? Ok cool, just so I know.

Of course, and in Rouge Trader Space Marines were only slightly bionically and genetically modified soldiers, not giants with two hearts, and they couldn't spit acid. Times change, fluffs get retcon'ed. Let the old fluff go when you are talking about post 3E 40K.

 lcmiracle wrote:

 david choe wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:
Trust me, whether the Emperor can even be considered human is debatable. However if he is, then his bones won't just shrink, especially not while it's being maintained, however poorly.

He was about the same height as the Primarchs, so if he is a human, then his "remains" would resemble his height while "alive" (a 20-foot humanoid wouldn't shrink to just 10 feet tall, so even if his bones did disintegrate, it'd still resemble the remains of a giant.); and if he isn't human, then any references to the normal human scale is irrelevant.

Do you not understand that when reading something from a human POV (US) ... you have to write it out if it is not of average quality. If they don't ... then it is left to interpretation..which most would assume laws of average.

In this case...he was man....he can change shape and sizes, but he didn't at the fight or it should have stated so...so he died in his man size... so his body is a mummified man size body. Why are you saying 20ft... Most average Primach are not 20ft tall.

Lets look at his terminator armor before he die... was it a dreadnought size? I think it was normal Terminator armor. He was fighting in Horus ship... I don't think they design ship so 20ft tall giants can walk around every hall way.

All we have are art work and fluff. All flufll never stated that the emperor is a giant corpse .... so we have to assume he has 2 arms and legs and 1 head and man size. All art work illustrated as normal man size or a bit bigger or smaller... never a freaking giant.

First, how do you know he didn't fight with Horus, THE HORUS, who was a consistent Giant, as a giant? Why would you expect the Emperor being a giant be stated? Every time when the Emperor is described in the Horus Heresy Novels, he is stated to be a giant of man, approximating or over the size of a Primarch. It would be the Emperor choosing to fight Horus in a normal human size body against Horus that needs explicitly stated, not the other way around. The 20ft to 10ft example is to illustrate a point: mummified figured don't become much shorter, at most they lost the few inches of skin fat. If a person was a giant in life, its mummified carcass would have distinctively shown it was a giant; petrification or degradation of the organic components don't change that, either.

As for if an Imperial Ship is designed to allow room for a dreadnought -- yes. A dreadnought was involved in one boarding action against the Hrafnkel, a Battlebarg and a flagship of Leman Russ. The deck spaces can easily allow a dreadnough fighting like a champ. While there are narrow passageways, in all instances, like the lowerdeck shrine depicted in Flight of the Einseinstein can easily allow passage of several Space Marines walking side by side. The ships are not small, nor are their corridors.

Furthermore, "All art work illustrated as normal man size or a bit bigger or smaller" -- I bet to differ:

Exhibit A: Emperor against Horus, which is found in the Horus Heresy-Collected Visions - somewhere, and is now in the 7th Edition codex, under the section Beginning of the End, clearly shows the Emperor is larger than normal space marines, note the Sons of Horus Legionaire in the foreground. The reason Horus is so much larger is unclear, it could be his normal height, or that he is warp grown to that size.

Spoiler:

Exhibit B: in the Collected Visions, page 150, there is this image, titled The Hands of the Emperor, by Sam Wood:

Spoiler:

Just to show you how large the Emperor is/was. Note the man on the left is Constantin Valdor, the Custodian, and to the Emperor's right is a Sister of Silence, a "normal human female", in the sense that she is a psychic null but of human-size.

You keep saying the Emperor is never depicted to be a giant despite me (and probably a whole heap of others) kept telling you the Emperor is always potrayed to be around or over the height of a Primarch and Primarchs are always described as giants to astartes/space marines, and space marines are taller than humans simply annoying and borderline ignorant. Please stop doing that.

Lastly, the corpse of the Emperor is also never stated to be of "normal human" size, either; if he were described to be a giant while alive, shouldn't it be more logical to assume his carcass is also that of a giant?

didn't I said man size? You are saying he is a 10 ft corpse ? I am saying he is a 6ft corpse. Ok lets wait for GW to issue a statement on CNN.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
enough of this BS ...

Don't be stupid.. saying giant and saying man size is very difficult to figure what size who is saying what.

Originally I always picture him as normal human size of SM... so about 7 to 9 ft. It is still man size. I wouldn't say 7 to 10 with xenon in our games giant size. Ctan is giant size. Avatar is Giant size.

Giant is freaking 20ft.

I don't know what the f your definition is of giant or man size.

However, hearing you guys talk about this.. I really think E will be humble and prefer to be human size of around 6ft tall. He doesn't need or want to be remember as a warrior giant.

So if you are going to ignore the flaws in your arguments, I'm just going to point you to my earlier statement and your response:

 david choe wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:

 david choe wrote:
Man people...read the question by the OT please.

HE is Talking aBout the dead body on the golden throne in 40,000! Stop talking about when he was alive.....!

The truth is nobody knows, because we just assume it is average human size mummy.....because of art work and our common sense of what a mummy size is.

Since GW never mentioned it....we have to assume it is normal mummy size and not some freak giantic 20 feet tall mummy.

But why normal human-sized? It's not like we cannot mummify 10 feet human, since the basic procedure of producing a mummy (human) is not affect by the size of the carcass, as long as it is human. Also the emperor is probably not a mummy, just dried up flesh and bones. Besides, the Golden Throne is actually some very ancient construct whose size is unknown. So we have no reference for size, what-so-ever. There is no reason to just "assume it is normal mummy size and not some freak giantic 20 feet tall mummy."

First off, he is a human...it is understood that anything abnormal that is out of human scale,...must be stated by the writer of the story. Like he is a 20ft tall corpse or he had 4 arms, etc... None was written..so we assume normal.

No, you didn't say man size, you said normal mummy size. It should be clear to you, even if the Emperor was in your scale of "normal human/mummy size", he is still of am abnormal height for a human from the images depicted. Second, yes, a mythical giant is perhaps over 20 feet, but a real-life giant is around 6 - 9 feet. I assure you gigantism is an abnormal condition. Also, since he's taller than a Space Marine, he's most likely taller than 6 ft.

 lcmiracle wrote:
So if you are going to ignore the flaws in your arguments, I'm just going to point you to my earlier statement and your response:

 david choe wrote:

 lcmiracle wrote:

 david choe wrote:
Man people...read the question by the OT please.

HE is Talking aBout the dead body on the golden throne in 40,000! Stop talking about when he was alive.....!

The truth is nobody knows, because we just assume it is average human size mummy.....because of art work and our common sense of what a mummy size is.

Since GW never mentioned it....we have to assume it is normal mummy size and not some freak giantic 20 feet tall mummy.

But why normal human-sized? It's not like we cannot mummify 10 feet human, since the basic procedure of producing a mummy (human) is not affect by the size of the carcass, as long as it is human. Also the emperor is probably not a mummy, just dried up flesh and bones. Besides, the Golden Throne is actually some very ancient construct whose size is unknown. So we have no reference for size, what-so-ever. There is no reason to just "assume it is normal mummy size and not some freak giantic 20 feet tall mummy."

First off, he is a human...it is understood that anything abnormal that is out of human scale,...must be stated by the writer of the story. Like he is a 20ft tall corpse or he had 4 arms, etc... None was written..so we assume normal.

No, you didn't say man size, you said normal mummy size. It should be clear to you, even if the Emperor was in your scale of "normal human/mummy size", he is still of am abnormal height for a human from the images depicted. Second, a mythical giant is perhaps over 20 feet, but a real-life giant is around 6 - 9 feet. I assure you gigantism is an abnormal condition.

LOL, yeah I read it.. and the point is???
I told you normal mummy size is man size.. I don't know what the mummy size is ... looks like about 5-7 ft.
This is the stupidest argument I ever been in. You never state your numbers just words of giant. I even mention numbers and I get pick apart by logic based on opinion. I don't care if medical giantism is 7 -10 and that is what everybody is talking about...please.. that is silly. None of your are medical profession and we are talking about subject X where we all have medical degree and we are using medical terminology to describe heights.

I told you ... at first I assume man range 6 - 10 feet... didn't care really.

Then NOW... because so many of you think he should be larger than man.. which I disagree what the E would do....he would be humble and be only 6.