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What is a real-world function of Heavy Bolter? Which of the following real life weapons fits the functions of Heavy Bolter?
1. Heavy Machineguns, Ex. .50 Cal M2 Browning, Water-cooled Vickers, M1917 Browning.
2. Beltfed Light Machineguns such as M60, MG34, MG42, M249 SAW
3. Pre-1950s era Magazine-fed (including feedstrips) Machineguns/Automatic rifle. something like Madsen, Lewis, Hotchkiss MGs (And its copies like Italian Bredas and the Japanese MGs) .... This weapon class may.. or may not properly fits this category. Especially. Madsen hopped-fed LMG was once intended to be service rifle of Royal Danish Marine Corps. it may fit better with Autogun-lasgun or generic bolter rather than Heavy bolters. yet back in the day, Heavybolters were either made as feedstrips or hopper magazine weapons rather than beltfed heavy support.


^ Madsen with bipod mount.... intended to be SAW

^ Brazilian cop uses Madsen to fight gangsters. I'm not sure if Madsen has any real capacity of being an assault rifle/Autogun?

Im far from an expert on guns,but I have never seen the Heavy Bolter as comparable to anykind of modern machine gun. Remeber, bolts are litterly mini rockets, a heavy bolter just fires larger versions at fully automatic pace

Depends on who's using it. For Space Marines it's a man-portable MMG, for Guard it's a tripod-mounted HMG. It's absolutely not small enough to be a SAW (40k doesn't really have SAWs given the stopping power of their basic weapons and the ammo efficiency involved).

I always pictured them in my mind as being a cross between a recoilless rifle and a .50 cal machine gun.

It's definitely in an HMG role, given its ability to defeat light armor and its limited man-portability.

Well If a Stubber is something equivalent to a modern day rifle
and if i recall the bolter would be close to a grenade machine gun

Then the heavy bolter would be like a mini machine cannon like


at least thats my two cents

Its something that can wreck smaller vehicles (av10 ish) and decimate most troops so i think it makes sense edit: that grenade machine gun actually looks awful lot like a bolteR

Easily an HMG. It also really isn't for suppression like an LMG, its ammo is far to valuable to be expended in such a role. Rather it exists to rend enemy vehicles and shear through infantry. Plus depending on the ammunition loaded into it, a Heavy Bolter can also shear through enemy vehicles with bolts such as vengeance rounds.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Easily an HMG. It also really isn't for suppression like an LMG, its ammo is far to valuable to be expended in such a role. Rather it exists to rend enemy vehicles and shear through infantry. Plus depending on the ammunition loaded into it, a Heavy Bolter can also shear through enemy vehicles with bolts such as vengeance rounds.

Have we ever seen vengeance rounds for a Heavy Bolter? I'm sure they must exist, but I'm curious if we have ever seen them used in the fluff.

 Orblivion wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Easily an HMG. It also really isn't for suppression like an LMG, its ammo is far to valuable to be expended in such a role. Rather it exists to rend enemy vehicles and shear through infantry. Plus depending on the ammunition loaded into it, a Heavy Bolter can also shear through enemy vehicles with bolts such as vengeance rounds.

Have we ever seen vengeance rounds for a Heavy Bolter? I'm sure they must exist, but I'm curious if we have ever seen them used in the fluff.

I can't recall any. Although if they did appear, Deathwatch would certainly be the first to use them.

.

I would think a heavy stubber would be closer to the HMG.

All in all Stub weapons are closer to modern machine weapons.

 JBSchroeds wrote:
The HMG is definitely the closest IMO.

Which always makes me wonder why SM vehicles can't have a pintle mounted Heavy Bolter when that's one of the most common places you see a real world HMG.

Some of it’s the scale and disconnect between fluff and tabletop. Remember: bolters are supposed to be very nasty bits of hardware, pretty much the top of the line for man portable firearms. And stormbolters are normal bolters kicked up a notch.

Instead of “It’s got a lame stormbolter for a pintle mount” think of it as “They’ve got a double barreled, fully-automatic grenade launcher on the driver’s hatch for when he doesn’t feel like using the main guns” It does the job of keeping the riff-raff at arms length quite well.

I'd put it on the equivalent of the M2 .50 machine gun. Primarily intended for anti-light armor. It can also be used for anti-personnel as well.

Heavy Stubbers would be more like an M-240/M-249. Anti-personnel light maching guns.

For Guard it would be the equivalent of the old wheeled support Machine Guns.



Although some had wheels frequently they had other means of support etc. Thats in role anyway, not in design.

 Desubot wrote:
I would think a heavy stubber would be closer to the HMG.

All in all Stub weapons are closer to modern machine weapons.

Yes, stub-weapons are the in-universe equivalents of modern weapons, but this is about the class they fill.

Heavy Bolter is an HMG/LMG depending on the user.

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
I would think a heavy stubber would be closer to the HMG.

All in all Stub weapons are closer to modern machine weapons.

Yes, stub-weapons are the in-universe equivalents of modern weapons, but this is about the class they fill.

Heavy Bolter is an HMG/LMG depending on the user.

Problem is there is basically real world equivalent to what a heavy bolter is about.

the Heavy stubber is a prefect it to the light/heavy machine gun.

a Heavy bolter is shooting essentially mini warheads down the range, going for anything from infantry to heavily armored dudes or even giant ass monsters. closest thing i can think of is a small caliber machine cannon. somthing that can wreck light vehicles, mow through infantry no problem and so on.

Its an HMG. Many weapons fill this role, Stubbers are on the light end of the spectrum, Heavy Bolters are in the middle, and things like Multi-lasers are the heavy end.

 Swastakowey wrote:
For Guard it would be the equivalent of the old wheeled support Machine Guns.



Although some had wheels frequently they had other means of support etc. Thats in role anyway, not in design.

Speaking of which I really wish GW would let you take heavy stubbers as a hwt/hws option as part of the AM codex. You keep the same number of shots as the HB and gain the same distance as an autocannon but lose on AP.

I think it would be an interesting option and choice.

Its not the same range as an Autocannon, its 36" not 48". You also lose a point of strength.

It still wouldn't be a terrible weapon option, especially if it was free.

The Heavy Stubber is also a much more believable weapon at the Guard level than the Autocannon.

Not necessarily. The Autocannon is no larger than many large anti-tank rifles which have been used by various armed forces in the past.

I have a harder time believing guardsman would be allowed to even use bolter type weapons period. considering they are not supposed to even handle bolt guns unless are giving special honors and such IIRC

That just applies to bolters, not heavy bolters.

And its really more of a precaution against injury and the mechanical complexity of the weapon, remember its speaking of the basic guardsmen. not the guardsmen who has received extra support weapon training.

 Grey Templar wrote:
That just applies to bolters, not heavy bolters.

And its really more of a precaution against injury and the mechanical complexity of the weapon, remember its speaking of the basic guardsmen. not the guardsmen who has received extra support weapon training.

Honestly though it had to do with something "sacred" or what not.

Still though i think i would like to see more heavy stubber stuff if only because of modeling opportunities

All weapons are sacred. Some more than others. A bolter is more important than a lasgun, but a Plasma gun is more important than a dozen heavy bolters. Yet there are guardsmen who are trained and sanctioned in their use. Its a great honor and privilege.

Most guardsmen will never be given this honor though. And the Primer assumes the basic grunt.

 Desubot wrote:
I have a harder time believing guardsman would be allowed to even use bolter type weapons period. considering they are not supposed to even handle bolt guns unless are giving special honors and such IIRC

It used to be that only marines could even use them. Now every imperial faction has access to them en masse.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Not necessarily. The Autocannon is no larger than many large anti-tank rifles which have been used by various armed forces in the past.

No larger in caliber, theoretically. But the size the weapon is an entirely different matter. An anti-tank rifle only has to be able to fire one shot from a braced position. An autocannon has to be stabilized for fully automatic fire from an unstabilized platform (ie, not affixed to a vehicle or other object). Then there's the logistical matter of the ammunition consumption and the man-portability of that. I mean, IGuard weapons teams should really be three models, not two, but ultimately it's not really an ideal platform for a weapons platoon. Those guns are huge. And I understand that heroic scale exacerbates the effect somewhat, but even a modern .50 is a three man carry and that's not an ideal situation which is why you won't see HMGs organic to weapons platoons very often, and instead reserved for prepared static positions and vehicle mounts.

I think the weapon that best matches the heavy bolter in terms of both role and fluff isn't a machine gun at all

It's really more akin to something like the mk.19 automatic grenade launcher.

like such https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=el2hi4cXRMk

In it's original incarnation, before it became multi-shot, it was in fact actually a blast weapon.


The Mk19 really fits the Heavy Bolter more than any machine-gun does. It's capable of engaging light armored vehicles, it's exceedingly effective against infantry, has a huge bore size like most heavy bolters, is about the right size, the weapon can be carried and manned by a small infantry team on a tripod mount or be fixed to a vehicle as an anti-personnel support weapon, etc.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Not necessarily. The Autocannon is no larger than many large anti-tank rifles which have been used by various armed forces in the past.

No larger in caliber, theoretically. But the size the weapon is an entirely different matter. An anti-tank rifle only has to be able to fire one shot from a braced position. An autocannon has to be stabilized for fully automatic fire from an unstabilized platform (ie, not affixed to a vehicle or other object).

I fail to see how the Autocannon's tripod is much different from a myriad of other modern weapons, like Mortars and heavy machine guns. By your reckoning, those weapons are impractical.

And autocannon doesn't have fully automatic fire, its a light anti-vehicle weapon that has a rate of fire that's high enough to allow its use against infantry.

Then there's the logistical matter of the ammunition consumption and the man-portability of that. I mean, IGuard weapons teams should really be three models, not two, but ultimately it's not really an ideal platform for a weapons platoon. Those guns are huge. And I understand that heroic scale exacerbates the effect somewhat, but even a modern .50 is a three man carry and that's not an ideal situation which is why you won't see HMGs organic to weapons platoons very often, and instead reserved for prepared static positions and vehicle mounts.

Bear in mind that IG heavy weapon teams don't operate alone. They've got guys on small bases with them too. Alternately, we aren't seeing the powder monkey being modeled because he's a none combatant from a practical standpoint. Or the heavy weapons teams are in a fortified position and already have plenty of ammo there with them.

The guns are definitely oversized, but thats definitely caused by the heroic scale and exaggeration of detail for coolness.

 Desubot wrote:
...a grenade machine gun

This. Definitely this