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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka




A woman got banned for complaining about a man who claims to identify as a woman in the female locker room. I think her solution was reasonable, myself.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/03/07/michigan-gym-cancels-woman-membership-over-complaints-transgender-woman-in/?intcmp=latestnews
   
Made in us
Sniping Reverend Moira





Cincinnati, Ohio

I read this this my morning. Gonna be interesting to see how they legitimately distinguish between those that are actually transgendered and those that are Pervy.

Don't get any ideas HSM.

 
   
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Time for me to identify as a woman and go peep at people in the women's locker room.

I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying. 
   
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Fixture of Dakka




I am waiting for it to be revealed that the guy who identifies as a woman also comes out as a lesbian!
   
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Member of the Ethereal Council






 cincydooley wrote:
I read this this my morning. Gonna be interesting to see how they legitimately distinguish between those that are actually transgendered and those that are Pervy.

Don't get any ideas HSM.

......I only go to the locker room to weigh myself. I live a 30 min walk from my gym(actually shorter, I just take a scenic route) and take a shower at home....

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Did Fulgrim Just Behead Ferrus?





Fort Worth, TX

Relapse wrote:
A woman got banned for complaining about a man who claims to identify as a woman in the female locker room. I think her solution was reasonable, myself.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/03/07/michigan-gym-cancels-woman-membership-over-complaints-transgender-woman-in/?intcmp=latestnews


"Cormier told the paper she feels the gym could provide a third set of changing stalls for transgendered people."

Doesn't that defeat the point of changing your physical gender? If you were born a man and are now a woman and want to live as a woman, why should you be forced to use a separate (but equal ) room and broadcast your life decisions to everyone?

"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me."
- Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks 
   
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Member of the Ethereal Council






 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Relapse wrote:
A woman got banned for complaining about a man who claims to identify as a woman in the female locker room. I think her solution was reasonable, myself.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/03/07/michigan-gym-cancels-woman-membership-over-complaints-transgender-woman-in/?intcmp=latestnews


"Cormier told the paper she feels the gym could provide a third set of changing stalls for transgendered people."

Doesn't that defeat the point of changing your physical gender? If you were born a man and are now a woman and want to live as a woman, why should you be forced to use a separate (but equal ) room and broadcast your life decisions to everyone?

Because Trans people are creepy apparently.

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Made in de
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





I see no reason why trangender people couldn't use the changing room according to their anatomical gender?
   
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Veteran ORC







I assume by "man" the article meant that she was still a full on dude with a Mantanae.

I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying. 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






 Sienisoturi wrote:
I see no reason why trangender people couldn't use the changing room according to their anatomical gender?

You mean sex, gender is in the mind.
Below the shoulders is sex, above the shoulders is gender.
And why? Because they are a women, they want to be treated as a women, and they want society to treat them as a women.
http://www.glaad.org/transgender/allies

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Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Sienisoturi wrote:
I see no reason why trangender people couldn't use the changing room according to their anatomical gender?


Because:

1) Doing that is telling someone that their gender identity is wrong. If you're a woman and someone says "go change with all the other men" that's incredibly insulting and just adds one more bit of poor treatment to a group of people that already has to deal with way too much of it.

2) It puts them in serious danger. Maybe it would be a solution in some ideal world where nobody is ever attacked for being different, but there have been way too many cases where people have violently attacked someone they didn't feel was a "real" man/woman.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Slarg232 wrote:
Time for me to identify as a woman and go peep at people in the women's locker room.


I think there are easier ways to get free porn.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/07 22:42:20


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






I locker rooms should be divided according to biological sex, not sexual identity.
I mean it sounds harsh, but you can identify as the opposite sex all you want, that really is not going to change the fact that you have the body of a man and should therefore (IMO) use the men's locker room.

 Peregrine wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Slarg232 wrote:
Time for me to identify as a woman and go peep at people in the women's locker room.


I think there are easier ways to get free porn.
Yeah, but watching naked women in RL is better than watching them on the internet. Now point me towards the nearest girl's locker room, I suddenly feel like a girl


But in all seriousness, transgender people are a serious matter and should be accommodated as much as possible, but when other people feel really uncomfortable about their presence it would be nice if they also respected others.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2015/03/07 22:54:20


Error 404: Interesting signature not found

 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






 Iron_Captain wrote:
I locker rooms should be divided according to biological sex, not sexual identity.
I mean it sounds harsh, but you can identify as the opposite sex all you want, that really is not going to change the fact that you have the body of a man and should therefore (IMO) use the men's locker room.


But what if they are intersex? or hermaphoditic. I'm sorry, but to these people, they ARE the opposite sex, they where just given the wrong body. Who are you to tell them they are not//////////

This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2015/03/07 22:55:17


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 Peregrine wrote:
 Sienisoturi wrote:
I see no reason why trangender people couldn't use the changing room according to their anatomical gender?


Because:

1) Doing that is telling someone that their gender identity is wrong. If you're a woman and someone says "go change with all the other men" that's incredibly insulting and just adds one more bit of poor treatment to a group of people that already has to deal with way too much of it.

2) It puts them in serious danger. Maybe it would be a solution in some ideal world where nobody is ever attacked for being different, but there have been way too many cases where people have violently attacked someone they didn't feel was a "real" man/woman.



1) I am fairly certain that trangender people can understand why they should use the same restroom as other people that share the same anatomical features, so i doubt that they will perceive it as an insult. Although I can understand why some of them might feel insulted, but then again, wouldn't parents feel insulted if their children were forced to see stuff they should not at that age?

2) Do you have any examples of such events occuring? Also, removing that danger would then again create another danger, as abusers could abuse this ruling to acces changing rooms they were not intendet to enter.
   
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 Sienisoturi wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
 Sienisoturi wrote:
I see no reason why trangender people couldn't use the changing room according to their anatomical gender?


Because:

1) Doing that is telling someone that their gender identity is wrong. If you're a woman and someone says "go change with all the other men" that's incredibly insulting and just adds one more bit of poor treatment to a group of people that already has to deal with way too much of it.

2) It puts them in serious danger. Maybe it would be a solution in some ideal world where nobody is ever attacked for being different, but there have been way too many cases where people have violently attacked someone they didn't feel was a "real" man/woman.



1) I am fairly certain that trangender people can understand why they should use the same restroom as other people that share the same anatomical features, so i doubt that they will perceive it as an insult. Although I can understand why some of them might feel insulted, but then again, wouldn't parents feel insulted if their children were forced to see stuff they should not at that age?

2) Do you have any examples of such events occuring? Also, removing that danger would then again create another danger, as abusers could abuse this ruling to acces changing rooms they were not intendet to enter.

1: it is just genetalia, noting mystical or bad. we all have it.
2:http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/general-news/20150227/uc-santa-cruz-lgbtq-community-calls-for-change-after-attack-on-gay-student

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Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Sienisoturi wrote:
1) I am fairly certain that trangender people can understand why they should use the same restroom as other people that share the same anatomical features, so i doubt that they will perceive it as an insult.


People who are actually transgendered and have to experience that insult disagree with you. And perhaps instead of just assuming that everyone agrees with you about the importance about using the "right" restroom you could explain why it's such a big deal? Maybe I'm just really strange, but when I'm in a public restroom I'm there to do my business and get out, I'm not going around inspecting what everyone else is doing.

Although I can understand why some of them might feel insulted, but then again, wouldn't parents feel insulted if their children were forced to see stuff they should not at that age?


Here's a better idea: stop acting like seeing naked people is the worst possible thing that can happen to a child, especially since they're already in a whole room full of naked people and have probably seen their opposite-sex parent naked.

2) Do you have any examples of such events occuring?


https://www.google.com/

Also, removing that danger would then again create another danger, as abusers could abuse this ruling to acces changing rooms they were not intendet to enter.


It doesn't create a danger because the danger already exists. A sign saying "men/women only" does not stop abusers from ignoring the sign and entering.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
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At a Place, Making Dolls Great Again

 Iron_Captain wrote:
I locker rooms should be divided according to biological sex, not sexual identity.
I mean it sounds harsh, but you can identify as the opposite sex all you want, that really is not going to change the fact that you have the body of a man and should therefore (IMO) use the men's locker room.

 Peregrine wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Slarg232 wrote:
Time for me to identify as a woman and go peep at people in the women's locker room.


I think there are easier ways to get free porn.
Yeah, but watching naked women in RL is better than watching them on the internet. Now point me towards the nearest girl's locker room, I suddenly feel like a girl


But in all seriousness, transgender people are a serious matter and should be accommodated as much as possible, but when other people feel really uncomfortable about their presence it would be nice if they also respected others.


Yeah but there are people who will try and kill you for that, you being transgender (male to female) and change with men, a lot of men aren't kind to their plight...
But at what point do you draw that line of "this person makes me feel uncomfortable"

Make Dolls Great Again
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For the United Shelves of America! 
   
Made in nl
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






 hotsauceman1 wrote:
But what if they are intersex? or hermaphoditic. I'm sorry, but to these people, they ARE the opposite sex, they where just given the wrong body. Who are you to tell them they are not
I am not the one telling them they are not the opposite sex, the thing dangling between their legs is. I don't think you can say anybody can be given the 'wrong' body. That would imply someone giving out bodies and having made a mistake. The issue is with the brains, not the body. Even if you identify as female, your biological sex will always remain male. That is something believing otherwise can't fix, only with a complete sex change operation can you actually become female.
 Peregrine wrote:

Although I can understand why some of them might feel insulted, but then again, wouldn't parents feel insulted if their children were forced to see stuff they should not at that age?


Here's a better idea: stop acting like seeing naked people is the worst possible thing that can happen to a child, especially since they're already in a whole room full of naked people and have probably seen their opposite-sex parent naked.
That is one of the things about Western culture I will probably never understand. Why are naked people bad and how could it be wrong for children to see naked people? It is just normal people, right?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/03/07 23:05:26


Error 404: Interesting signature not found

 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Iron_Captain wrote:
Yeah, but watching naked women in RL is better than watching them on the internet.


Then go to a strip club.

Now point me towards the nearest girl's locker room, I suddenly feel like a girl


Sure, just as soon as you start living as a woman, take female hormones, change your legal name and sex, etc. But I suspect you like your current male identity and aren't going to make those changes just so you can go stare awkwardly at people (most of whom are probably not attractive to you anyway).

But in all seriousness, transgender people are a serious matter and should be accommodated as much as possible, but when other people feel really uncomfortable about their presence it would be nice if they also respected others.


Kind of like how gay people should "respect others" and never give any public hint that they're gay, just in case someone might be upset about it? Should interracial couples feel an obligation to never show any public signs of being a couple just in case they encounter a racist who might be offended?

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
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Like is said, Genetalia i such an odd thing to base my identity around. And they are female and should be treated as such.

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Made in ca
Preacher of the Emperor




At a Place, Making Dolls Great Again

 Iron_Captain wrote:
[quote=hotsauceman1 638947 7650800 a5e13e449251b6793214a73b78416d30.jpgBut what if they are intersex? or hermaphoditic. I'm sorry, but to these people, they ARE the opposite sex, they where just given the wrong body. Who are you to tell them they are not
I am not the one telling them they are not the opposite sex, the thing dangling between their legs is. I don't think you can say anybody can be given the 'wrong' body. That would imply someone giving out bodies and having made a mistake. The issue is with the brains, not the body. Even if you identify as female, your biological sex will always remain male. That is something believing otherwise can't fix, only with a complete sex change operation can you actually become female.


If the God of the Bible is real then I'd say yeah I totally believe he messed up, he's made a lot of failures (in terms of creatures)
if you buy into that stuff...

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Veteran ORC







hotsauceman1 wrote:
 Sienisoturi wrote:

1: it is just genetalia, noting mystical or bad. we all have it.


Using this logic, we should have unisex locker rooms.....

Not saying we shouldn't/bad idea in general, just saying might as well go the full nine yards.

Rainbow Dash wrote:
Yeah but there are people who will try and kill you for that, you being transgender (male to female) and change with men, a lot of men aren't kind to their plight...
But at what point do you draw that line of "this person makes me feel uncomfortable"


1) If someone tries to kill you, you try to kill them right back!

2) Considering that only one woman (That we know of) had an objection to the transexual transvestite from Transylvania being in the woman's locker room, people seem to be less likely to try to kill people over that these days. Sure you will always find bigots, but still.


I'm just really disappointed the article didn't specify which stage in her transition the calprite was in; if it was right at the beginning where she still had male genitals, I could see some reason to cause alarm.

I've never feared Death or Dying. I've only feared never Trying. 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Iron_Captain wrote:
I don't think you can say anybody can be given the 'wrong' body. That would imply someone giving out bodies and having made a mistake. The issue is with the brains, not the body.


No, the issue is with the body, just like we wouldn't tell someone who was born with only one leg "sorry, your belief that you should have two legs is a problem with your brain, just accept who you are".

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Member of the Ethereal Council






 Peregrine wrote:
 Iron_Captain wrote:
Yeah, but watching naked women in RL is better than watching them on the internet.


Then go to a strip club.

Now point me towards the nearest girl's locker room, I suddenly feel like a girl


Sure, just as soon as you start living as a woman, take female hormones, change your legal name and sex, etc. But I suspect you like your current male identity and aren't going to make those changes just so you can go stare awkwardly at people (most of whom are probably not attractive to you anyway).

And just enjoy the best thing about the gym itself. Yoga Pants

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Made in de
Stalwart Veteran Guard Sergeant





 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 Sienisoturi wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
 Sienisoturi wrote:
I see no reason why trangender people couldn't use the changing room according to their anatomical gender?


Because:

1) Doing that is telling someone that their gender identity is wrong. If you're a woman and someone says "go change with all the other men" that's incredibly insulting and just adds one more bit of poor treatment to a group of people that already has to deal with way too much of it.

2) It puts them in serious danger. Maybe it would be a solution in some ideal world where nobody is ever attacked for being different, but there have been way too many cases where people have violently attacked someone they didn't feel was a "real" man/woman.



1) I am fairly certain that trangender people can understand why they should use the same restroom as other people that share the same anatomical features, so i doubt that they will perceive it as an insult. Although I can understand why some of them might feel insulted, but then again, wouldn't parents feel insulted if their children were forced to see stuff they should not at that age?

2) Do you have any examples of such events occuring? Also, removing that danger would then again create another danger, as abusers could abuse this ruling to acces changing rooms they were not intendet to enter.

1: it is just genetalia, noting mystical or bad. we all have it.
2:http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/general-news/20150227/uc-santa-cruz-lgbtq-community-calls-for-change-after-attack-on-gay-student


1) By that logic showing extremely violent videos to children publicly should be legal, as we all have internal organs and there is nothing mystical or bad in them.

2) That case really has almost nothing to do with the current topic.
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 Slarg232 wrote:
Using this logic, we should have unisex locker rooms.....


You're right, we should. We should stop making such a big deal about naked bodies and/or just have locker rooms where each person gets an enclosed space to change in and nobody has to look at naked people.

1) If someone tries to kill you, you try to kill them right back!


So because you can try to fight back (without any guarantee of success) it's ok to put people into dangerous situations?

2) Considering that only one woman (That we know of) had an objection to the transexual transvestite from Transylvania being in the woman's locker room, people seem to be less likely to try to kill people over that these days. Sure you will always find bigots, but still.


But it only takes one violent bigot, and we know that the risk is non-trivial.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
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Australia

If it is impossible to distinguish between a man who says the words "I am a woman" and a MtF transsexual who says the same thing, the gym needs to acknowledge that. Either forbid both from entering the women's locker room, or refurbish the locker rooms such that it doesn't matter.

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Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
 Iron_Captain wrote:
I locker rooms should be divided according to biological sex, not sexual identity.
I mean it sounds harsh, but you can identify as the opposite sex all you want, that really is not going to change the fact that you have the body of a man and should therefore (IMO) use the men's locker room.


But what if they are intersex? or hermaphoditic. I'm sorry, but to these people, they ARE the opposite sex, they where just given the wrong body. Who are you to tell them they are not//////////


They may feel they're something different, but the things between their legs speak the truth. That is the most fair way to handle this. If you've got a penis, you use the mens room. If you've got a vagina, you use the womens room.

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Y'know, Dorms have all sex bathrooms. I have yet to experiance a problem.

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 Slarg232 wrote:
hotsauceman1 wrote:
 Sienisoturi wrote:

1: it is just genetalia, noting mystical or bad. we all have it.


Using this logic, we should have unisex locker rooms.....

Not saying we shouldn't/bad idea in general, just saying might as well go the full nine yards.

Rainbow Dash wrote:
Yeah but there are people who will try and kill you for that, you being transgender (male to female) and change with men, a lot of men aren't kind to their plight...
But at what point do you draw that line of "this person makes me feel uncomfortable"


1) If someone tries to kill you, you try to kill them right back!

2) Considering that only one woman (That we know of) had an objection to the transexual transvestite from Transylvania being in the woman's locker room, people seem to be less likely to try to kill people over that these days. Sure you will always find bigots, but still.


I'm just really disappointed the article didn't specify which stage in her transition the calprite was in; if it was right at the beginning where she still had male genitals, I could see some reason to cause alarm.


Is there an option where no one tries to murder me?
You could say that about any reason when it comes to bigotry, but a lot of people never deal with bigotry so nonsense like that is often a suggestion.

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