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It's most certainly not. Properly modded, Valkyr is statistically more than twice as tough as Rhino, and that's before abilities. After abilities, Valkyr is even tougher. Hell, with just vitality alone, Valkyr is tougher than Rhino with vitality, vigor, AND steel fibre.

Once you factor in Iron Skin and the higher shields, it certainly does not feel that way.

 Ashiraya wrote:
I got myself a Rhino and wow, Rhino feels stronger at rank 10 than Valkyr does at rank 30.

Because he is. Valkyrie is piss weak. Once you hit a certain amount of damage and nullifiers in a T4, she dies as fast as Loki. Whereas Iron skin's falloff is much later.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Once you hit a certain amount of damage and nullifiers in a T4, she dies as fast as Loki.

Have you ever considered that maybe you just suck?

I mean I know that sounds like a personal attack, but I never die when I play valkyr, unless I do something mind-bogglingly stupid. The combination of extremely high effective hp, rage, healing from hysteria, and warcry makes her almost invincible when you play her right.

As Valkyr, don't hit nullifiers. They advertise their position from far away. Have allies deal with it, or use an explosive or beam weapon to kill it from range.

If you have to melee a nullifier, slide-attack through the bubble and you'll be out even before the heavies can ground-slam.

 Melissia wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Once you hit a certain amount of damage and nullifiers in a T4, she dies as fast as Loki.

Have you ever considered that maybe you just suck?

I mean I know that sounds like a personal attack, but I never die when I play valkyr, unless I do something mind-bogglingly stupid. The combination of extremely high effective hp, rage, healing from hysteria, and warcry makes her almost invincible when you play her right.

That's entirely possible.

But, when I try out frames in T4, I can solo an hour with my Mesa, and 45 mins with Saryn, 1.5 hours with my Mag, 1 hour with my Loki and 30 minutes with Chroma. With my Valkyr, I last at most 30 minutes.

Also; In the perfect conditions where each Warframe has Physique on, Valkyr's maximum effective health is 6,980, which already starts falling off once enemies hit level 30. Iron Skin is a perpetual 4k health buffer, before you start losing shields and 2062 effective health. That can be recast, at will.

The reason I raise the nullifier comment is that 45 minutes into a T4, and you're generally gangbanged by nullifiers. Unless you're in a defense, you can't really have a safe buffer unless you go into a survival camp, at which point taking Valkyr is basically cutting off a limb. (You take Loki, Banshee, Mag and Nekros).

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Also; In the perfect conditions where each Warframe has Physique on, Valkyr's maximum effective health is 6,980, which already starts falling off once enemies hit level 30. Iron Skin is a perpetual 4k health buffer, before you start losing shields and 2062 effective health. That can be recast, at will.

And Hysteria has a full minute (for me) of complete invulnerability for damage, with each attack regenerating any lost hit points. Oftentimes by the time I finish hysteria, I already have enough energy to cast it again, and I easily have full health after merely one or two attacks. Add to that warcry (buffs speed/armor of allies, nerfs speed of enemies) to help your team, and Paralysis to quickly stun nearby enemies and get out of a bad situation , and you really shouldn't have any reason to die as Valkyr, EVER, unless you're making lots of mistakes.

I wouldn't ask Valkyr to solo defense missions. She doesn't really have the AoE DPS to manage that-- and neither does Rhino. It's not what they do. But I WOULD gladly have her draw off enemy fire (especially on a survival mission) without any risk whatsoever of dying. And that's what I do with her, and I do it better than Rhino players can.

 Melissia wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Also; In the perfect conditions where each Warframe has Physique on, Valkyr's maximum effective health is 6,980, which already starts falling off once enemies hit level 30. Iron Skin is a perpetual 4k health buffer, before you start losing shields and 2062 effective health. That can be recast, at will.

And Hysteria has a full minute (for me) of complete invulnerability for damage, with each attack regenerating any lost hit points. Oftentimes by the time I finish hysteria, I already have enough energy to cast it again, and I easily have full health after merely one or two attacks. Add to that warcry (buffs speed/armor of allies, nerfs speed of enemies) to help your team, and Paralysis to quickly stun nearby enemies and get out of a bad situation , and you really shouldn't have any reason to die as Valkyr, EVER, unless you're making lots of mistakes.

I wouldn't ask Valkyr to solo defense missions. She doesn't really have the AoE DPS to manage that-- and neither does Rhino. It's not what they do. But I WOULD gladly have her draw off enemy fire (especially on a survival mission) without any risk whatsoever of dying. And that's what I do with her, and I do it better than Rhino players can.

I wasn't talking about defence either. I was referring to T4 survival. I can now safely say that I've soloed 2 hours of that with a rhino, a frame I hate. And I can confirm that iron skin falls off much later than a duration Valkyr with maxed armour.

The point is, as good as Valkyr seems on paper, and regardless of how much I love her, she's not a top end frame. Often, she's viewed as useless, except for revival duty, like in the raid.


All that aside, I've now managed to run 40 waves of t4 defence with an excal and a loki. Gotta say, exalted blade is hella good. Yet another from that invalidates ash.

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Often, she's viewed as useless

Yes, people are untalented idiots who have no clue what they're doing, but that doesn't make them idiots who are also right.

 Melissia wrote:

 thedarkavenger wrote:
Often, she's viewed as useless

Yes, people are untalented idiots who have no clue what they're doing, but that doesn't make them idiots who are also right.

Well, try and get into a raid in a role other than revive machine, or a T4 camp with the hardcore folks. The bottom line is, she has a place. It's not top end.

Actually I had one the other day. Did perfectly fine, no one complained.

Update unrelated to the Valkyr debate.

Finally finished my Brakk and Mara Detron. 59k and 54k burst DPS respectively.

Nice! I still need to figure out what I want my end game to be for weapons, I've focused mostly on my warframes...

 Melissia wrote:
Nice! I still need to figure out what I want my end game to be for weapons, I've focused mostly on my warframes...

Depends on your flavour really.

Boltor Prime and Soma Prime are the obvious mentions.

Other than that its preference. I alternate between the BoltorP, SomaP, Tonkor, BurstonP, LatronP, Dread(Eurgh), Kohm and Vectis.

Secondary weapons is obvious. Brakk, MaraDet, Synoid Gammacor, Secura DualSec and LexP.

Meleewise, you have the four big names. ScindoP, Jet Kitty, DNik, and DakraP. The other mentions are the Tipedo, Ichors, DZoren, Tonbo, OrthosP, Redeemer(Stance only), FangP.

Jat Kittag, Sheev, Dragon Nikana are my favorite as far as melee weapons go. I have vectis and tonkor... hmm. I was trying to get soma prime. I really don't tlike the secondaries much... aksomati any good?

 Melissia wrote:
Jat Kittag, Sheev, Dragon Nikana are my favorite as far as melee weapons go. I have vectis and tonkor... hmm. I was trying to get soma prime. I really don't tlike the secondaries much... aksomati any good?

The Sheev is pretty bad. All daggers are. To put it simply, the sheev's attack speed is the same as the Fragor. Unless they changed it.

Aksomati are good, but they're high RoF and terrible ammo consumption.

Wait, Dakra Prime is that good?

My ex gave me the blueprint and the parts, which have been sitting in my inventory for a while because I am not mastery 6 yet, but I thought it was just a moderate weapon.

(Currently I use Scindo/Orthos/Skana)

 Ashiraya wrote:
Wait, Dakra Prime is that good?

My ex gave me the blueprint and the parts, which have been sitting in my inventory for a while because I am not mastery 6 yet, but I thought it was just a moderate weapon.

(Currently I use Scindo/Orthos/Skana)

With the crimson dervish (iirc) it does 3x whatever listed damage is for it.

And I have Iron Phoenix. Darnit. Dx

If you're using quick melee, Dakra prime isn't that worthwhile. Only with the Crimson Dervish stance does it deal 3x damage when you have the melee weapon equipped.

If you're using quick melee, heavies, hammers, and such are better. If you're stealthy, go for daggers with Covert Lethality.


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 Melissia wrote:
It's the old "men are powerful women are healers" irredeemable guttertrash.

Weird thing. Canonically, Equinox is "female", but has two different genders for the different forms:
https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/503478-building-warframe-equinox/?p=5626550
Whatever the sex and gender mean to a sentient biomechanical weapon of destruction is debatable.

Also keep in mind, with Valkyr's Paralyze shout, daggers gain additional power as enemies paralyzed take damage as if you were stealthed.


And huh. That's odd.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Got my Prisma Tetra, life is good


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Since Equinox wasn't as stupid as I thought it was, I might try it out. They look more interesting as a support warframe than trinity does, to me.

 Melissia wrote:
Also keep in mind, with Valkyr's Paralyze shout, daggers gain additional power as enemies paralyzed take damage as if you were stealthed.

Excalibur does that with Radial Blind. Doesnt mean he makes daggers super good.

Overall, they're a subpar weapon with no gimmicks or distinguishing features to make them noticeable.

Heavy weapons have high damage and slow swings that hit a lot of enemies.

Swords are mid of the range on everything.

Polearms are good for coptering(Pre parkour 2.0) and have long range.

Daggers are slow, have low damage, and have a short range.

It thought daggers did have a gimmick, in that they had a higher stealth damage modifier than other weapons?

Indeed, though that is perhaps of dubious use when it truly matters.

 Melissia wrote:
It thought daggers did have a gimmick, in that they had a higher stealth damage modifier than other weapons?

That only works if you're undetected. If an enemy sees a loki before he stealthy, he doesn't get the modifier. It's wanky, but what can you do.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Also keep in mind, with Valkyr's Paralyze shout, daggers gain additional power as enemies paralyzed take damage as if you were stealthed.

Excalibur does that with Radial Blind. Doesnt mean he makes daggers super good.

Excalibur's radial blind allows for the new Covert Lethality to have it's effect. Also works with Banshee's Silence, Equinox's Sleep, etc.+100 base damage is really really good. It also works with Exalted Blade.
So yes, this makes daggers super good.

Ah, Covert Lethality was what I had in mind actually.

At max level... costs 13, is offensive Y polarity, +100 base damage (physical or elemental mods that raise damage are improved by this), and unaware enemies are killed in one hit regardless of defense.

Hell yeah I was right


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 thedarkavenger wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
It thought daggers did have a gimmick, in that they had a higher stealth damage modifier than other weapons?

That only works if you're undetected. If an enemy sees a loki before he stealthy, he doesn't get the modifier. It's wanky, but what can you do.

Enemies hit by valkyr's paralysis count as unaware for hte sake of attacking them. Same with other abilities such as radial blind or rest. It's very common to get a one-hit stealth kill after doing a paralysis shout when playing valkyr.

Will I get more warframe slots as I level up? ML 4 now, and I have Excalibur, Valkyr and Rhino. I also want a Frost and I am soon ready to build it, but I have no spare slots.

Otherwise I suppose I will have to sell Excalibur.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Will I get more warframe slots as I level up? ML 4 now, and I have Excalibur, Valkyr and Rhino. I also want a Frost and I am soon ready to build it, but I have no spare slots.

Otherwise I suppose I will have to sell Excalibur.

I don't think so. But mr4 was so long ago and now my Mr is dead lol.

No. You never get slots for anything by leveling up your Mastery. Slots are always bought with platinum or come with event items.