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So the most common way to kit out Carnifexes these days seems to be dual twin-linked Devourers with brainleech worms.

But I was thinking...why? These weapons only have 18" range and okayish strength - enough to wound most infantry on 2+, but not good enough to be used on vehicles. The amount of shots that gets through is indeed staggering, but at Ap - you're giving everything a save.

I thought about a different loadout - how about two heavy venom cannons? A trio of Carnifexes kitted out this way would fire six S9 small blasts each turn, capable of damaging infantry (with insta-kill threat upto and including T4) and also powerful enough to target vehicles. Best of all, the range is 36" meaning you'll always find something to shoot at.

Alternately, a stranglethorn cannon loadout would mean devastation to infantry - six large blasts, all at S6 would yield the same killing power toward infantry as the brainleech devourers, but the range of 36" makes all the difference.

Thoughts?

 Sir Arun wrote:
So the most common way to kit out Carnifexes these days seems to be dual twin-linked Devourers with brainleech worms.

But I was thinking...why? These weapons only have 18" range and okayish strength - enough to wound most infantry on 2+, but not good enough to be used on vehicles. The amount of shots that gets through is indeed staggering, but at Ap - you're giving everything a save.

I thought about a different loadout - how about two heavy venom cannons? A trio of Carnifexes kitted out this way would fire six S9 small blasts each turn, capable of damaging infantry (with insta-kill threat upto and including T4) and also powerful enough to target vehicles. Best of all, the range is 36" meaning you'll always find something to shoot at.

Alternately, a stranglethorn cannon loadout would mean devastation to infantry - six large blasts, all at S6 would yield the same killing power toward infantry as the brainleech devourers, but the range of 36" makes all the difference.

Thoughts?

2x TLBL Devourers gives your Carnifexes the ability to harm almost everything in the game fairly reliably. They provide AA in a pinch, murder light vehicles and can put enough wounds on MEQ/TEQ to force some failed saves. This comes attached to a reasonably durable platform with natural S9 and D3 HoW attacks on the charge, so their melee ability is still pretty good. It's just a very versatile, very easy to use unit. Very similar to a Tactical Squad in some respects.

There are other loadouts though.

The Stranglethorn Cannon is not awful; great range and strength let you kill large chunks of light infantry. A Trio of Biovores do this better (and cheaper), but again you're also bringing a durable S9 platform for melee as well.

The Heavy Venom Cannon is not such a good idea because of the 2D6 scatter (-3 for BS... but still that's on average 4"). It's not 8awful* for flaying the odd hull point, but why settle for a mediocre loadout when you have some really strong options?

You cannot take 2x HC or STC on one Carnifex though. One per model, and only one or the other.

The other useful builds are melee; either 2x Scything Talons and Adrenal Glands for a cheap beatstick, or Scything Talons/Crushing Claws and Adrenal Glands to absolutely murder vehicles in melee. These, while cool (and they look great) do suffer from being unable to affect the game in a meaningful way until they reach melee. That said, in the right force they can be brutal...

The wargear list has a note on heavy cannons that they are 1 per model. So at most you are getting 3 blasts/large blasts.

The other issue is carnifex are only BS 3 with the large blast it doesn't matter as much but the venom cannons are less likely to do damage. And the stranglethorn is only AP 5 so at best you are denying saves to orks and GEQ.

I could see a use for them in a bio-blast formation where they get split fire but the devourers have so much utility. Against everything except AV 13-14 the devourers will strip more hull points and likely get more hits on infantry

Ahh. Missed the fine print saying you cannot take two.

However if you could, then I'd say they'd make a better loadout than the current 2x tl-worm devourers

Heavy Venom Cannons are one of those unit loadouts that might well have an obvious downside, but still can be devastating used right. I know from personal recieving end experience they're a very solid opening turn salvo against massed gunlines.

The big issue isn't directly accuracy so much as in later turns, when your swarm has moved forwards, all parts trying to cooperate harmoniously as a nid list needs to... The Carnifexes will be at risk of hitting themselves or other nids when trying to shoot and charge.

I, personally, like to play Nids to fullest extent that I can, and refrain from using the net loadouts as much as possible. That being said, I typically like to kit each Carnifx out with a single Devourer and a Strangethorn cannon. And I one in the unit will have Bio plasma and Crushing Claws.

 krodarklorr wrote:
I, personally, like to play Nids to fullest extent that I can, and refrain from using the net loadouts as much as possible. That being said, I typically like to kit each Carnifx out with a single Devourer and a Strangethorn cannon. And I one in the unit will have Bio plasma and Crushing Claws.

Yep, a "Gunfex" (Heavy Cannon, Brain Leeches) is a perfectly valid build, it's just the nature of the internet to demand One "correct" answer. Heck I still have great fondness for Screamer Killers. (Twin Scything, Bio Plasma)

In a Formation, both Gunfexen, and Screamers can do very good work. Dropping the Plasma saves points, and you lose very little. If you use a Tyrannocyte then You'll want to shoot Something when you drop though.

Tyranid weapons in general have AWFUL AP values, making everything have to be volume of shots. 30 Fleshborers, 90 Devourer shots, 15 Deathspitters, 36 Devourers w/ Worms, yada yada yada. So when you fire a Stranglethorn you get, realistically, five hits in a large squad placed in a blob? Six? Well now that's not the 20-someodd from BS3 Twin Linked Devourers. Same strength and that six hits STILL has to make saves against MEQ as if it had AP nil. And since Tyranids as a rule do better within the 18" mark with our only decent guns of the Exocrine, our 'artillery bug', stuck at a 24" range, why does it need to be more than 18"?

That said, I still use a Screamer Killer as well because I like the 3rd Edition models and they look so much better in melee. If you have multiple Carnifexen then the Devourer/Cannon combo really does work when you're up close but there's is a glaring problem, even more so when you throw in a melee big into the brood. Every turn they shoot their long range gun, they can't run. Which means that's MORE waiting before they get in range of the Devourers or the Claws. Good run rolls across the table and your Carnifex get left behind.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
Tyranid weapons in general have AWFUL AP values, making everything have to be volume of shots. 30 Fleshborers, 90 Devourer shots, 15 Deathspitters, 36 Devourers w/ Worms, yada yada yada. So when you fire a Stranglethorn you get, realistically, five hits in a large squad placed in a blob? Six? Well now that's not the 20-someodd from BS3 Twin Linked Devourers. Same strength and that six hits STILL has to make saves against MEQ as if it had AP nil. And since Tyranids as a rule do better within the 18" mark with our only decent guns of the Exocrine, our 'artillery bug', stuck at a 24" range, why does it need to be more than 18"?

That said, I still use a Screamer Killer as well because I like the 3rd Edition models and they look so much better in melee. If you have multiple Carnifexen then the Devourer/Cannon combo really does work when you're up close but there's is a glaring problem, even more so when you throw in a melee big into the brood. Every turn they shoot their long range gun, they can't run. Which means that's MORE waiting before they get in range of the Devourers or the Claws. Good run rolls across the table and your Carnifex get left behind.

Yeah, Gunfexen work best vs Gunlines, and currently Gunlines are pretty rare. For S-Ks I like the wrecker Node, or a Pod. If you walk you want Adrenals for sure.