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Fear: So bad when 80% of armies are immune to it (the whole Ld system needs an overhaul or ATSKNF needs to add 5+pts per marine)

Soul Blaze: Always forget and rarely ever does anything

Hammer of Wrath: I always forget this and most of the time it's on a S4 model. Would work much better for a base S10 unit.


Any other rules you would put on this list?


(In all honesty I would have put Overwatch on here when the 5/6th change happened as it slowed the game down too much, but I've grown to like it, the psychic phase takes far too long when you're playing GK and Eldar vs. Daemons and CSM at 8k)

You forget Hammer of Wrath?? Don't play Dark Eldar. Or Harlequins. Or Tyranids. Or on the other hand, do play them so you remember it. A squad of nine Reavers making 3D6 HOW at S6 and 6 at S4 all with Rending mean that you friggin WANT to remember that rule.

Will say Vector Strike is pretty useless to me but I love the concept. Only FMC I take is a Flyrant and it shoots at S6 so D3 S6 hits or 12 S6 shots with an average of 11 hits? But I really like the thought of a Flyrant tackling another flyer out of the sky, kicking it to the ground and flying away again.

Shadow in the Warp... Why bother?

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
You forget Hammer of Wrath?? Don't play Dark Eldar. Or Harlequins. Or Tyranids. Or on the other hand, do play them so you remember it. A squad of nine Reavers making 3D6 HOW at S6 and 6 at S4 all with Rending mean that you friggin WANT to remember that rule.

Will say Vector Strike is pretty useless to me but I love the concept. Only FMC I take is a Flyrant and it shoots at S6 so D3 S6 hits or 12 S6 shots with an average of 11 hits? But I really like the thought of a Flyrant tackling another flyer out of the sky, kicking it to the ground and flying away again.

Vector Strike used to be great until they nerfed it.

OT, Pinning is rather useless. Most guys are immune to it or need a Leadership debuff to make it really effective.

I don't have one. I think they could remove/combine/simplify at least 50% of the special rules and the game would be better for it. I'm not a big fan of adding complexity and more things to remember that add zero tactical depth to the game.

I honestly think 40K has too many rules in general. It isn't new user friendly at all, and many of the rules only serve to make things more complicated and slow down gameplay. If they consolidated the amount of little things and special rules down to about half, I think it would make the game more fun.

 WarpWolf wrote:
I honestly think 40K has too many rules in general. It isn't new user friendly at all, and many of the rules only serve to make things more complicated and slow down gameplay. If they consolidated the amount of little things and special rules down to about half, I think it would make the game more fun.

I started 40k in 6th, and found it fine to pick up despite alot of rules.

Champion of Chaos special rule.
it's a love hate relationship

7th ed rule book

 FeindusMaximus wrote:
7th ed rule book

OHHHH no he didn't

Cmmd.Ackbar wrote:
Fear: So bad when 80% of armies are immune to it (the whole Ld system needs an overhaul or ATSKNF needs to add 5+pts per marine)

God no. Marines without their cheese units are bad enough without going back to 3rd edition cost. Atsknf isn't even all that good when you have a whole squad get battle cannon'd or ion accelerated off the table.

I find fear to be somewhat useful, as my main buddies play chaos, orks, and necrons. Suddenly going from a 4's vs. 4's to-hit battle to 3's vs. 5's is powerful.

Soul blaze is terrible and not worth the time it takes to read the rule.

Fear is a lot of fun. But far too much fearless/ATSKNF in the game.

I'd tell you what mine is, but its so useless, I can never remember it!

Skyfire.

Fine in theory, but the core book altered it in a way that made every codex unit already balanced around having both it and interceptor... In other words most of them... Horribly overcosted for what they do.

I have no clue what they were thinking there.

changemod wrote:
Skyfire.

Fine in theory, but the core book altered it in a way that made every codex unit already balanced around having both it and interceptor... In other words most of them... Horribly overcosted for what they do.

I have no clue what they were thinking there.

It's typical GW "playtesting".

Like, when they buffed the "useless" and "unused" Librarian, because their own beer & pretzel playtesting lead them to conclude that the only useable HQ was the Chaplain (despite the fact that the Librarian was overly spammed).
I imagine that they had another beer & pretzel game night, with their fine (illegal) display army which went something like:

Beer Guy: "Hey, that Quad-Gun we introduced in the last book..."

Pretzel Guy: "Oh yeah, the one we made so people had an option to shoot incoming flying enemies. What about it?"

Beer Guy: "Exactly! We made it like... a FUTURE WW:II flak gun, that shoots things in the SKY!"

Pretzel Guy: "..Yeah?"

Beer Guy: "We made it so that it can actually shoot things on the ground, that's not how it was designed! It should feel like the WW:II flak gun!"

Pretzel Guy: "OMG, you're right! As it is, there doesn't even need to be flyers in the game for it to function. We should fix that!"

Beer Guy: "Yes, let's end this foul abuse of a loop hole!"

Pretzel Guy: "You think there're other similar cases like this we should consider?"

Beer Guy: "Nah, let's proceed to play our forge the narrative game, were Dante is BB with Tyranids."


As for this topic. My personal favourite is "Sniper". Mostly because I have no actual memory 40k, were snipers actually functions like how you'd expect them to and when they actually ALMOST worked in 6th, the rule got its skull smashed against the wall.
In fact, the only real snipers I can think of, who actually comes close at doing their job, are genetically modified, drugged, special High Lords of Terra issued whack jobs, that just woke up from a cryo-freeze chamber and have a very disturbing mother issue with their rifle.

Hammer of Wrath is a nice bonus at worst, so it's not a bad thing at all.

I don't like how Sniper and Rending work, as they favour volume of attacks over the power of the weapon. The idea that assault cannons are superior vs AV14 to lascannons is just silly.

Soul Blaze is awful. It really needs a buff.

Oh, there's a lot. I cannot stand the Fleshbane and Armourbane rules - They sound so similar, but function so different! On top of that, if the weapon is supposed to do more damage to their respective unit type, why not just add to the Strength value? Oh right, that would allow some weapons to hurt vehicles, because, to represent vehicles, the game has been so that vehicles use a wildly different way of damage than your usual model...

On the face of it, the vehicle rules, and especially the flier rules are my most disliked rules in the game... It's like they add a whole different way of playing, and not in a good way!

Missile Lock. Go ahead and tell me there is a use for this rule and point to a model with it.

Pinning, its useless on two front. The first is that no where near enough weapons cause a pinning test. Earth shaker cannon for example should. If you have a rule like pinning you should actually put it on weapons that it makes since for.


Second, it affects almost no units.

I like Soul Blaze as a concept but it needs something to make it work better (maybe does auto wounds until the unit dies or makes all of it's saves?).

Night Fighting vs Tau or Dark Eldar feels pointless. Even worse now that both players need to agree to use it.

Cover vs Tau can be pretty useless as well.

Since Pinning isn't on as many weapons it feels a lot less useful despite it's buff. Doubly so for sniper weapons who lost a trademark rule there.

Um, Concussion? Strikedown?

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I like Soul Blaze as a concept but it needs something to make it work better (maybe does auto wounds until the unit dies or makes all of it's saves?).

Night Fighting vs Tau or Dark Eldar feels pointless. Even worse now that both players need to agree to use it.

Cover vs Tau can be pretty useless as well.

Since Pinning isn't on as many weapons it feels a lot less useful despite it's buff. Doubly so for sniper weapons who lost a trademark rule there.

Night Fighting isn't pointless, it's perfect for them. I just played a tourney match that had Night Fighting for the whole game, Daemons against DE. Okay, added cover for both right? Wrong. DE ignore Night Fighting, so I got fethed. It was a super fun game, but having fething guys with Night Vision is broken, almost as broken as moving in the Assault Phase *wink wink*.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do love these threads because all the "40k is bloated and bad" people come running out of the woodwork.

Sniper used to be cool, now it's super useless. One of the more inexplicable changes of 7e, IMO.

 KiloFiX wrote:
Um, Concussion? Strikedown?

Concussion is moderately useful on unwieldy weapons. Strikedown, on the other hand... lol

 jreilly89 wrote:
Night Fighting isn't pointless, it's perfect for them. I just played a tourney match that had Night Fighting for the whole game, Daemons against DE. Okay, added cover for both right? Wrong. DE ignore Night Fighting, so I got fethed. It was a super fun game, but having fething guys with Night Vision is broken, almost as broken as moving in the Assault Phase *wink wink*.

I don't mind it as much vs DE, but Tau getting free Black Sun Filters all over the place annoys the heck out of me.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do love these threads because all the "40k is bloated and bad" people come running out of the woodwork.

I'm not in that camp, I enjoy the hell out of the game and compared to some games (Warmachine namely) the special rule count isn't that bad. The issue is that some of the rules are just not very good (Fear) and need some adjustments.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I always forget about Strikedown because it's on so few things. :/

Amphibious on chimeras anyone?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 jreilly89 wrote:
Night Fighting isn't pointless, it's perfect for them. I just played a tourney match that had Night Fighting for the whole game, Daemons against DE. Okay, added cover for both right? Wrong. DE ignore Night Fighting, so I got fethed. It was a super fun game, but having fething guys with Night Vision is broken, almost as broken as moving in the Assault Phase *wink wink*.

I don't mind it as much vs DE, but Tau getting free Black Sun Filters all over the place annoys the heck out of me.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:
I do love these threads because all the "40k is bloated and bad" people come running out of the woodwork.

I'm not in that camp, I enjoy the hell out of the game and compared to some games (Warmachine namely) the special rule count isn't that bad. The issue is that some of the rules are just not very good (Fear) and need some adjustments.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I always forget about Strikedown because it's on so few things. :/

Definitely. In the times where it could've made a difference, them having Night Fighting sucks. Second, not calling you out specifically. A couple posts up are the typical "Get rid of all of 40k, the rules suck!" comments.

Yeah, I've never seen Strikedown actually make a difference

stripeydave wrote:
Amphibious on chimeras anyone?

Hahahahha!

Yeah, that one takes the cake. I've actually never seen a more hilariously useless rule. Not since the former CSM spawns who had fleet, despite the fact that they were Slow & Purposeful.

I'd vote for fear I love how they threw it around many CSM units, and it is even a warlord trait, and the only thing it really works against is Orks and some times the same CSM.

The idea of an army like Crimson Slaughter where everything has fear, because of how they are super evil rebellious marines haunted by voices and that it only really works against the forces they just joined (chaos) is hilarious

(sure it works vs Tau and Guard as well, but if you get to combat they are already dead so no point in fear)

 Zewrath wrote:

stripeydave wrote:
Amphibious on chimeras anyone?

Hahahahha!

Yeah, that one takes the cake. I've actually never seen a more hilariously useless rule. Not since the former CSM spawns who had fleet, despite the fact that they were Slow & Purposeful.

Yeah, Amphibious would probably be more useful if GW made some terrain kits that incorporated water features....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eldar (outside of Wraith units) are largely not fearless, so they get kicked by Fear as well.

It really comes down to mainly Loyalist Marines and Tyranids who can outright ignore it codex wide, while most everyone else only has a couple of units who can do the same.

My favorite most useless rule?
The fact that a Nurgle DP (who almost always jinks) ans Beasts of Nurgle (who have no hands to throw them) has blind grenades
It's completely pointless, but when it actually does something the lulz is mighty.

I don't see how most armies are immune to pinning?

I find a lot of pinning tests happen due to exploding vehicles potentially pinning their former occupants.

My favourite useless rule is the Veterans of The Long War upgrade for Dark Apostles. As far as I can tell it gives them no further in game benefit (and is available for zero points), but I like the fact it is there to distinguish the most vindictive Dark Apostles from those who are more interested in promoting than tearing down the imperium.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Zewrath wrote:

stripeydave wrote:
Amphibious on chimeras anyone?

Hahahahha!

Yeah, that one takes the cake. I've actually never seen a more hilariously useless rule. Not since the former CSM spawns who had fleet, despite the fact that they were Slow & Purposeful.

Yeah, Amphibious would probably be more useful if GW made some terrain kits that incorporated water features....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Eldar (outside of Wraith units) are largely not fearless, so they get kicked by Fear as well.

It really comes down to mainly Loyalist Marines and Tyranids who can outright ignore it codex wide, while most everyone else only has a couple of units who can do the same.

yeah, I'm sure someone out there has an AWESOME custom board with rivers, marshes etc where amphibious is useful. but.. yeah... it's 99.999% useless