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 Spartan-Kun wrote:
I plan on backing this, and will only throw more money at it if by chance they cross over to SDE.

SPM addressed this point in today's SDE:FK update:

Soda Pop Miniatures wrote:Yes, it has Super Dungeon Crossover cards.

SPM hasn't given the details, but Ninja All Stars will cross over with SDE in some fashion, as many backers had hoped would be the case.

Now we just need to hope that there's a basic level PM-access level pledge. Too much going on right now!

I'm pretty sure you will be able to. I know for SDE: Forgotten King they let you add funds after the campaign had ended.

 Azazelx wrote:
Now we just need to hope that there's a basic level PM-access level pledge. Too much going on right now!

For TFK, they fully integrated it into their online store which seemed to work pretty well. If I remember correctly, they basically turned your pledge into a form of currency on their store and you could see secret items. Then you basically filled out your shopping cart with KS items and that was that.

I can't remember if they allowed real money add ons at that point or not.

The pledge manager window was rather large for SDE:FK and you could keep adding items for its duration. The only issue was that each time you confirmed or "checked out" your order it creates a new delivery package with the new items and charges its own shipping. There was no way to add to an existing shipment at the time so it was best to hold off for as long as possible before finalizing your order.

nkelsch wrote:

 Azazelx wrote:
Now we just need to hope that there's a basic level PM-access level pledge. Too much going on right now!

For TFK, they fully integrated it into their online store which seemed to work pretty well. If I remember correctly, they basically turned your pledge into a form of currency on their store and you could see secret items. Then you basically filled out your shopping cart with KS items and that was that.

I can't remember if they allowed real money add ons at that point or not.

Yeah, I was able to add on quite a lot to my SDE via their PM. OTOH I went in for $100 or so on the KS itself, rather than a $1 "PM" pledge, which is all I'll be able to afford right now.

We don't yet have the details of how SPM will run the NAS KS and PM, but I think it's fair to think that they will do things similar to how they ran SDE:FK, with $1 pledges being accepted, using the store as the PM, and allowing people to order more stuff.

In my case, I planned out at the end of the campaign, and only added a little bit once the details became available. Got a lot of stuff coming!

The Ninja All-Stars Kickstarter starts at 3:00pm EDT (12:00pm PDT)! [19:00 GMT time]

Want to make sure you don’t miss the opening moments? Bookmark the URL http://www.tiny.cc/ninja-all-stars. Right now it takes you to the Ninja All-Stars webpage, where you can brush up on all the clans. When the Kickstarter goes live it will automatically direct you straight to the Kickstarter page. Easy!

live now

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sodapopminiatures/ninja-all-stars?ref=hero_thanks

$100 pledge



SDE crossover

While Ninja All-Stars is superficially similar to our popular dungeon adventure game Super Dungeon Explore, Ninja All-Stars is a stand-alone game in a wholly new world. Creating cross-overs of every ninja clan, Hero, and Ronin in Ninja All-Stars would run counter to the very exciting plans we have for the Wandering Monk Mountain region of Super Dungeon. However, just like our fans, we could not resist the idea of brave Heroes battling ninja in beautiful temples and mist-haunted wilderness. So we created the Super Dungeon: Ninja Pack.



Not final art.

The Ninja Pack includes a new Elemental Affinity mechanic. This allows players to choose an Elemental Affinity for their ninja at the beginning of the game, granting them new and interesting abilities. This mechanic allows you to easily represent any (or every) Ninja All-Stars clan in your games of Super Dungeon. The Hero profiles and Elemental Affinity allow you to choose any Ninja All-Stars Hero or Ronin model to represent your Master or Mystic.

Super Dungeon Ninjas includes: Wandering Master and Wandering Mystic Heroes, Elemental Affinity reference card, Oni mini-boss, Elemental Shrine paired spawning point, Classic and Arcade Mode Chunin, Kunoichi, Madoushi, Kaiken, and Yajiri cards.

The Super Dungeon: Ninja Pack is included for free with your All-Star pledge!

add ons

Woof, Greedy. Model for Model not even close to TFK value. Thanks for a 4 player game with only 2 teams. (especially since 2 more teams are simply recolors, not even need new sculpts, talk about fake add-ons)

This game is in no way ever going to retail MSRP for 100$, why do companies feel the need to fake stretch goal with an incomplete game. If the core pledge wouldn't MRSP retail for 100$ then there is a problem with the starting pledge math.

So it looks like core game and 4 more colors addons is going to be 220$ and with basically 'more than retail' 10$ heroes, expect a 300$ completionist pledge.

Interesting - I love a lot of the minis.

I don't understand the need for the "fire shrine/water shrine" generic ninjas. I don't fancy having to paint the same 9 ninja sculpts several times over. (though the painted ones they show look very lovely - kudos to whoever did them).

Though I guess ~20 ninjas per clan box isn't too big a task if you break them down. (Though I assume by KS end it'll be more like 25)

So what do the elemental shrine guys do that the clan guys don't?

What do the Samurai do?

Would be nice to see those things explained.

 Alex C wrote:
So what do the elemental shrine guys do that the clan guys don't?

What do the Samurai do?

Would be nice to see those things explained.

I keep seeing the term 'blood bowl' kicked around... Makes me think that the 'types' are position and the 'clans' are upgrades. So if your sword guy lives and exp up, he becomes the clan version with better stats. They can't possibly have meant for people to play 4 player with 2 base ninja teams and 2 clan teams so we have to assume a base/clan combo is one team.

If you zoom in, the stats for the clan ninjas are the same, except they seem to have extra skills and a little yellow ball stat. So it is clear they are 'better' than their plain counterparts.

The 100$ pledge for TFK started around 60 models (for a game which was going to MSRP for 80$ and sell for 60 at online discounters) and ended up around 95 Models. And the add-ons for 30$ came with 20ish figure per add-on including big guys. Better see some added value to both the core and paid add-ons.

Edit: Eeeech, December 2015 = April 2016 since they will slip into Chinese new years and be exactly where they are for TFK.

NAS will fund within an hour or two.

Main page has been updated with the current pledge details and options.

Like the rest of you, I am confused and surprised by the inclusion and addition of generic ninja over Clan Ninja - I'm not sure I want to spend another $120 to "upgrade" my generic ninja to Clan Ninja.

That does seem to be exactly what they meant.

They say the shrine clans are clans in their own right, so apparently the retail box game will only support 2 players out of the box. (I think they may be shooting for a lower MSRP on the core game this time around?) this does seem to fit the "Bloodbowl" model.

I wonder if they'll sell the shrine clans in different colored plastics separately at launch? I don't see many people using them except for as a way to represent "lesser" versions of the classes in the proper clans.

I will say - I like the way they handled the SDE crossover. Very smart to have cards just representing a ranged hero & melee hero + generic ninja spawn point to cover any ninja models you want to use. Saves a lot of fuss and keeps things from getting bogged down with 800 more cards.

Schmapdi wrote:
That does seem to be exactly what they meant.

They say the shrine clans are clans in their own right, so apparently the retail box game will only support 2 players out of the box. (I think they may be shooting for a lower MSRP on the core game this time around?) this does seem to fit the "Bloodbowl" model.

Wading through the comments, it looks like the shrine ninjas represent 'quickstart' IE: Humanbowl

Also, they intend the Shrine ninjas to be 'proxies' for other clans. So you can play 4 clans OOTB, but 2 of the clans have cool models and the other 2 clans have generic proxies.

So realistically, all people would need are the 6 clans, but I suspect since the shrines are just generic recolors, it is easy and cheap for them to run more of them with other colors, so they will want completionists to get 6 shrines and 6 clans. Would it have been nice for the core box to have been 4 clans, and then 2 clans at 30$ add-ons for 160? sure... I guess if you are a big fan of HUMANBOWL, someone would want generic ninjas for quickstart. Maybe we will leave the shrine ninjas unpainted for easy transport/play and only paint the clan ninjas.

I can't quite figure out the angle on why people would want or need both shrine and clan ninjas and why we would want 12 teams when you only need 6.

Surprised this is taking so long to fund, but ND/SP don't do early birds, so it's expected for a new IP.

Really like the models as a whole.

"Value" seems a little light off the bat.

I like that they don't do Exclusives, for but for a campaign with a new IP like this, I think it can hurt them a little bit.

Regardless, pretty excited to watch this one play out and to learn more about the gameplay!

nkelsch wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
That does seem to be exactly what they meant.

They say the shrine clans are clans in their own right, so apparently the retail box game will only support 2 players out of the box. (I think they may be shooting for a lower MSRP on the core game this time around?) this does seem to fit the "Bloodbowl" model.

Wading through the comments, it looks like the shrine ninjas represent 'quickstart' IE: Humanbowl

Also, they intend the Shrine ninjas to be 'proxies' for other clans. So you can play 4 clans OOTB, but 2 of the clans have cool models and the other 2 clans have generic proxies.

So realistically, all people would need are the 6 clans, but I suspect since the shrines are just generic recolors, it is easy and cheap for them to run more of them with other colors, so they will want completionists to get 6 shrines and 6 clans. Would it have been nice for the core box to have been 4 clans, and then 2 clans at 30$ add-ons for 160? sure... I guess if you are a big fan of HUMANBOWL, someone would want generic ninjas for quickstart. Maybe we will leave the shrine ninjas unpainted for easy transport/play and only paint the clan ninjas.

I can't quite figure out the angle on why people would want or need both shrine and clan ninjas and why we would want 12 teams when you only need 6.

I do think it would have been better to just dissolve the shrine ninjas and add some of them as lesser ninjas in the other clans. Which is what I think 95% of people will wind up doing with them. (i.e. you have your shrine archer ninjas, then your fancier clan archer ninjas).

How I took it was that all the shrine ninjas have the same stats, regardless of element. But i we're getting the purple ones as a stretch goal. I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with all 6 colors of shrine ninjas as stretch goals (since they are practically free to add for SPM). But that just seems like an unnecessary tidal wave of repeat minis to me.

** Edit **

Looking at the first update. It looks like our first few freebie stretch goals will be adding the Heroes to the fire/water clans. And at some point they'll have to add the Oni's to them too. I found the SDE campaign to be a good value - but I am finding this one to be a bit chintzy.

Schmapdi wrote:
I found the SDE campaign to be a good value - but I am finding this one to be a bit chintzy.

Dude, we only a few hours into a 30-day campaign. Let the value develop over then next 4 weeks before you make a decision.

Hm. The fiancee and I are absolutely smitten with SDE and are eagerly awaiting our Forgotten King to arrive. We also absolutely adore ninjas. I'll wait, as I always do (seriously, I followed/knew I'd be backing KD:M since the beginning but only pledged the last week), but I think we'll definitely be backing this one.

This just looks too fun to pass up, so I'm glad Blood Rage didn't quite catch my fancy.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Dude, we only a few hours into a 30-day campaign. Let the value develop over then next 4 weeks before you make a decision.

Despite liking how this looks, I don't particularly like projects that require this line of thinking.

I think the product should be worth it from Day 1.

Still backing this one, but I think people criticizing that are justified in doing so.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
I found the SDE campaign to be a good value - but I am finding this one to be a bit chintzy.

Dude, we only a few hours into a 30-day campaign. Let the value develop over then next 4 weeks before you make a decision.

Here is why it is different:
*When they had a 100$ TFK pledge, it was the 80$ retail release with a 12$ hero and a 20$ spawn at launch. So if they had funded and never added a darn thing, it would have been slightly better than retail but it was worth 100$ out of the gate. 5 Heroes, 5 Spawns, a few bosses.

This is not worth 100$ at launch and it has people confused due to the cheapness of the shrine ninjas (and rightfully so). Pledging for something that might grow to be worth 100$ is FAKE STRETCH GOALS and KS consumers have become experienced enough to identify them. The comments are full of confusion and 'use them as proxies' is a really awful response. Both the core game and 30$ add-on are lacking retail value. I hope they add at least a hero and big guy to every clan free of cost and they might be worth it. I don't see how they can try to launch the core game without the ONIs when they clearly will be part of the retail. It was like when Mega Man KS tried to convince us Gutzman and Cutzman who were on the front of the box wouldn't be in the retail release.

What they should have done:
*Base set have 4 CLANS. Period. Completionists then need to get the core box and 2 add-ons for a total of 160$
*Make Shrine ninja 'Bag-o-ninja' and highlight 'one-off' play as another way to play like bloodbowl does with humanbowl. By highlighting it, you can sell them en masse like the samurai, and people can opt-in. The confusion of 'what? proxy shrine ninja or play with 2 handicapped bands?' would be gone. Make an add-on for all 6 shrines for 60$

Total 220$

The alternative is the core box will probably have all 6 shrines as add-ons, and people have to purchase 4 more clans, for a total of 220$ but yet, everyone is confused and flooded with minis. Allowing people out the door with 160$ with no confusion will be better than people who just divest themselves totally. People also will feel less 'cheated' when they get stuff they want in the core, opposed to repaints of models which apparently they won't need and won't use in most gameplay. It isn't good when all people are talking about is the 'is this only able to be played with 2 players? proxies? what is a shrine ninja?'

If this was 4 clans with Onis at launch, it would have been a slam dunk and matched TFK model for model.

Edit: Ugh... How do you show a picture of core gameplay with models not in the core box? Shrines and Oni are part of core gameplay and pictured in all of their images, probably even will be on the game box but yet we need unlocked stretches to have a complete game? FAKE stretch goals.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

Schmapdi wrote:
I found the SDE campaign to be a good value - but I am finding this one to be a bit chintzy.

Dude, we only a few hours into a 30-day campaign. Let the value develop over then next 4 weeks before you make a decision.

I found SDE:FK to be a good deal from the get-go. And I know it will have more value added. But like I said - seeing in my crystal ball SG-wise we have:
Temple Tokens - hit, fake SG (which is fine, and expected)
More (and likely multiple) - Shrine ninja sets in different colored plastic *yawn*
Adding the heroes (and eventually Oni) - to the Clan sets that obviously are meant to be in there already
Several "pay money to unlock more things to buy goals"

We're going to be at 300k and the weekend before we hit any actual, valuable stretch goals.

I'm still super interested in the campaign of course, and I see plenty to like about it. But they've stumbled out of the gate IMO. (and others, apparently).

I suspect that the base game will have generic Ninja in 4 colors, and that all of the Clans will be add-ons at retail.

Each $30 Clan expansion on a has a $10 Unique on top of $25 worth of Clan-specific sculpts.

2 Clan expansions plus the base has a nominal value of over $100, but this wasn't laid out very clearly.


The real problem is that SPM has any generic ninja in the first place. I just do not understand that decision at all.

TFK shows us for 30$ we should expect:

1 Hero
10-12 small models
1 big model

This means if the Clans in the core box and add-ons do not include a Clan hero and Oni, then that is a problem. If we have to multiple stretch to make an add-on equal to a TFK minion group, that is a problem.

By TFK standards 160$ should have gotten 6 clans with hero and oni. Period. 4 base box, 2 paid add-ons. If it costs over 220$ to get the 6 clans with hero and Oni, Sodapop has gotten greedy.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I suspect that the base game will have generic Ninja in 4 colors, and that all of the Clans will be add-ons at retail.

Nope - they said in the comments, the retail box will only support two players. If you want more it'll be up to you to add on.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

The real problem is that SPM has any generic ninja in the first place. I just do not understand that decision at all.

We are in agreement there. Ironically, had the game just had the two Clans in it from the get go, and the stretch goals were "add melee training-ninjas" (and the like) to the clan packs I think everyone would be much happier and less confused.

I can kind of understand the generic Shrine ninja thing even though I'd prefer clan specific ninja models. It allows players to more easily(?) switch between the six different clans contained in the game rulebook even though their models aren't included in the box set. It looks like each clan will be getting its own colored Shrine ninja through stretch goals, so it shouldn't be too much a problem to switch factions for KS backers. But as a retail product the generic look will be helpful to people wanting to try out the different clans but not willing or able to buy the matching colored plastics.

Hopefully some of the stretch goals will be geared to alleviate this oversight.

Edit: By oversight I mean giving us clan specific Shrine ninja models.

Schmapdi wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I suspect that the base game will have generic Ninja in 4 colors, and that all of the Clans will be add-ons at retail.

Nope - they said in the comments, the retail box will only support two players. If you want more it'll be up to you to add on.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

The real problem is that SPM has any generic ninja in the first place. I just do not understand that decision at all.

We are in agreement there. Ironically, had the game just had the two Clans in it from the get go, and the stretch goals were "add melee training-ninjas" (and the like) to the clan packs I think everyone would be much happier and less confused.

OK, then I wonder how much the retail box would be if it's only 30-ish minis (2 sets generic + samurai). It can't be $80. Maybe $50-60?

Had the retail box just had Ika and Tora Clans with no generics, and Ijin Clan bundled, I would have been much happier.

Or even if the generics were black and grey - that would have supported 4 players from the get-go.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:


OK, then I wonder how much the retail box would be if it's only 30-ish minis (2 sets generic + samurai). It can't be $80. Maybe $50-60?

Had the retail box just had Ika and Tora Clans with no generics, and Ijin Clan bundled, I would have been much happier.

Or even if the generics were black and grey - that would have supported 4 players from the get-go.

The math which adds up:

50$ Core box: Has 2 Shrines and all associated gameplay
30$ Clans: Clan models, 1 Clan hero, 1 Oni
10$ Heroes

That would put the base pledge at 120$ of retail product for 100$, which would be a 20ish% discount of MSRP.

TFK got close to 40% off MSRP when all was said and done, and is basically what they would sell the product to retailers for... which is quite fair for people funding the product IMHO. Soda still gets basically full profit that way.

So until we have hero and Oni in the two core pledge Clans and 30$ add ons Clans, we are in fake stretch goal land.

if you want to be clever and have some ninja alternates...Impact minis is really good for that

http://www.impactminiatures.com/index.php?option=chibi