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Next backer-based stretch goal reveal. <200 backers to go for scary Japanese ghost ronin

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
So whats the difference between the two sets, or whats is the point in getting the ninja master set?

<== click for giant flowchart

Elemental Master
- NO (0) generic ninja
+ more (44) Clan ninja (4x 11 per Clan)
+ more (4) Clan uniques
+ more (4) Clan Oni
= fewer (52) total models (4x 13 per Clan)
+ more (28) different sculpts (4x 7 per Clan)
Elemental Master has more "cool" stuff, with far fewer duplicate sculpts

Ninja Master
+ more (36) generic ninja (4x 9 generic)
- fewer (22) Clan ninja (2x 11 per Clans)
- fewer (2) Clan uniques
- fewer (2) Clan Oni
= more (62) total minis;
- fewer (19) different sculpts (2x 7 Clan ninja + 5 generic ninja).
Ninja Master has more total models, using fewer different sculpts

____

 TheDraconicLord wrote:
- The previous kickstarters, any problems with them?

Cool Mini or Not published Soda Pop Miniatures' Relic Knights. CMoN ended up delivering the models a year late, as they transferred the line over to SPM / Ninja Division. It is interesting to note that, unlike their other KS, CMoN did not do 2 waves of shipping on this product line, but rather held all fulfillment until the end, to minimize their shipping costs. Inside baseball strongly suggests that CMoN deliberately delayed RK fulfillment and used the profits to fund development of their in-house Wrath of Kings game, which they Kickstarted as a direct competitor to RK (and Confrontation).

Palladium Books contracted Ninja Division (SPM's publishing arm) to develop miniatures for Robotech RPG Tactics. Palladium delivered Wave 1 a year late. One reasonably assumes the ongoing delay is due to institutional incompetence by Palladium, rightsholder interference by Harmony Gold, and other Japanese Macross approvals. The Wave 1 models look good when assembled, but there are more parts due to undercuts in the anime designs. SPM/ND has been silent on this project for quite some time, and one assumes some sort of falling out here.

Excuses, excuses... What about when they are running the show?

Soda Pop Miniatures launched and managed their Forgotten King Kickstarter to tremendous success ($1.15M+ vs CMoN's AQ at $770k), and is currently delivering Wave 1 globally; many backers have received their stuff, and the majority should receive them bu the time the NAS KS closes. Forgotten King Wave 1 is roughly 4 months delayed vs the Dec 2014 estimate, and Wave 2 will close perhaps 2 or 3 months from now. Forgotten King initial delivery is later than desired, but final delivery is sooner than expected.

While I have never met them in person, I have been watching them since they first got "big" with the original Super Dungeon Explore preorder through CMoN. In the current and previous KS, SPM has been reactive to Backer concerns and issues, and addresses them clearly and directly. They have made proper and reasonable course corrections, which is very satisfying to see. SPM has been religious about providing KS updates every Friday since the KS close - they are, by far, the most professionally-managed of the dozen-odd KS that I have backed or split.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:

 PsychoticStorm wrote:
So whats the difference between the two sets, or whats is the point in getting the ninja master set?

Ninja Master
- NO (0) generic ninja
+ more (44) Clan ninja (4x 11 per Clan)
+ more (4) Clan uniques
+ more (4) Clan Oni
= fewer (52) total models (4x 13 per Clan)
+ more (28) different sculpts (4x 7 per Clan)
Ninja Master has more "cool" stuff, with far fewer duplicate sculpts

Elemental Master
+ more (36) generic ninja (4x 9 generic)
- fewer (22) Clan ninja (2x 11 per Clans)
- fewer (2) Clan uniques
- fewer (2) Clan Oni
= more (62) total minis;
- fewer (19) different sculpts (2x 7 Clan ninja + 5 generic ninja).
Elemental Master has more total models, using fewer different sculpts

Hum, are you certain about that one? Because I'm looking at the pictures, and the ninja master says "PICK 2 UNLOCKED CLANS" while the elemental master picture says "PICK 4 UNLOCKED CLANS"

Sorry, I got the labels crossed. I fixed the previous post.

They are crazy if they don't turn all the monster designs into an SDE spawnpoint. With the current array of monsters, they could grab 30$ from 6000 TFK backers. Being less than 2000 current backers leaves a good amount of room to sell a monster spawn to SDE people and increase the printing of models which has to help with costs.

Schmapdi wrote:
Next backer-based stretch goal reveal. <200 backers to go for scary Japanese ghost ronin

7 days?

the Movie that inspired the Ring, Ringu (or is it just ring?)

Japanese Ringu in was remade into the Ring by Hollywood

Got my wave 1 of Forgotten King today - everything is pretty excellent from what I've gotten to look at (had to work late). Waaay more than I was anticipating. And I still have a few warbands/etc coming in wave 2!

Schmapdi wrote:
Got my wave 1 of Forgotten King today - everything is pretty excellent from what I've gotten to look at (had to work late). Waaay more than I was anticipating. And I still have a few warbands/etc coming in wave 2!

TFK are not bad... Still some scale issues in the heroes and a steady size creep upwards still. Virtually all the heroes are larger than the pumpkinheaded Von Drak (when you compare to the shrinkray roxor and inconsistent core set) Many of the heroes are super tall, and the Fae Alchemist is amazonian... Quite possibly the beefiest, largest headed hero to date (move over sister of light)


While scale inconsistency isn't really a huge deal, for a group of rabid fans (like most company-specific fans) who constantly compare to other model lines like AQ, they complain about scale issues when SDE is rife with them and they haven't seem to been resolved, or at least been made consistent.

Also, Bendy weapons is a problem with Board Game Plastic. Unlike other materials, they never can be straightened. I do feel like Sodapop might have learned their lesson because almost all the NAS designs have thick swords and really thick poles (which can lead to kung-fu grip looking sculpts) but I feel it is needed. Many of the models are functionally holding spaghetti and can never be 'fixed' with re-bending. Personally, I drill out hands, put plastirod in and then put a staff topper. Plastirod won't bend or break and fixes the model. The ones which are harder to fix are swords. The wandering minstrel is particularly bad with his thin sword.

Overall, the models are good, and mine were very clean from a mold line POV. The only one which really struck me as 'odd' was the questing Knight who is holding his lance in an overhanded 'stabbing' motion. Maybe he is throwing it? You throw that type of lance? I dunno... It bothers me. I might need to make him hold a lance like a lance.

The clear tokens... When compared to my AQ tokens, I am not impressed. The SDE ones are too small. Period. They become too small to be useful. I have had experience with tokens which are too small for games, especially 3D ones. I will probably load up on AQ heart and Skull tokens and continue to use craft-store bottles for potions. Good news is that those potions might make good use for modeling because they are so small. Not a huge issue, but seems like a loss.

The Fluff book is pretty neat. But raises some questions from a NAS POV from those who are trying to defend the lack of SDE crossovering because the fluff for that area not only directly speaks of everything talked about in NAS, but even looks exactly like the temple board from NAS. It would be like trying to say Mordheim has nothing to do with Warhammer Fantasy Battles. When the Fluff for SDE directly talks about fighting TENGU, and we have the TENGU model in NAS... How are we supposed to somehow think there is not explicit crossover. I understand rabid fans want to pointlessly stick up for Sodapop and they can never do wrong, but you can't blame SDE fans from wanting NAS sculpts for SDE content without wanting to homebrew rules or spend 250$ on a game they may not want. So the fluff book raises more questions than it answers.

As for the new rules... My first reaction was there is a lot of 'deckbuilding' going on... A lot more than I expected. And they look like they straight lifted a bunch of things from Myth, like the boss darkness deck now that every boss has a deck of actions and monster AI. My first reaction was it was like watered down Myth adventuring mode with no quests. I need to play through the Arcade mode but it seemed odd. Worth a shot tho. Pets seem pointless and tacked on for the 'squeeeeeeee look at my pet figure' bonus. It may be that SDE remains the 40k of Dungeoncrawl boardgames... not a particularly good ruleset, no real balance or competitiveness. The consul will always be the game owner and will need to pull punches to facilitate gameplay but in general it is a fun way to push fun models around a table. A 'beer and Pretzels' game... not a competitive game. Boardgamers will probably dislike it compared to AQ but transitional RPGers may like it.

It does call into question Sodapop's ability to write quality rules... especially with the mathhammer not shaking out for the public beta and the dice mechanics being discussed for NAS. Sounds like someone came up with a 'cool' dice mechanic and built a game around it and is now resisting when it is being put through its paces. (IE: more dice = weaker attack) I will need to play some TFK to see of most of the balance and general things which make it 'fun but not competitive' game has been resolved to see if I trust NAS being supposedly the next arena sport game to replace Bloodbowl. It is going to be hard to compete with AQ for a PVP game session with cute chibi models.

I completely agree that SPM is trying to unnecessarily force a new dice mechanic in NAS, along with artificial separation from SDE, and that it was not thought through well. Not to mention the direct use of SDE FK Ninja Candy/Cola for NAS.

It is funny how tiny and petite the Roxor models are compared to everything else. But it's OK for some models to be taller / shorter - it's not like all humans are the same height / build.

Great Post! Thanks for the insight, nkelsch!

Yeah - I noticed the Alchemist was pretty beefy - but I'm not particularly bothered by the scale issues in SDE. I guess the super deformed nature hides it well - since I'm pretty picky about it normally.

I do have a few bendy swords/spears/axes - but I've never had a problem straightening them in the past. Or are you saying they switched to a new material for TFK?

And no - SDE doesn't strike me as particularly competitively balanced. (Or really as the type of game competitive gamers are going to be wanting to play). But when I read the beta rulebook for the 2.0 rules I remember thinking they had cleaned things up quite a bit? Haven't gotten a chance to look at the final version. I spent 2+ hours last night just swapping out all my 1.0 cards for the 2.0 versions. I need to stop and get more card sleeves tonight!

I've not look at NAS' rules closely - but I agree the mechanics seem a little ... off to me.

Schmapdi wrote:

I do have a few bendy swords/spears/axes - but I've never had a problem straightening them in the past. Or are you saying they switched to a new material for TFK?

The weapon isn't think enough to retain a shape and will bend with minimal pressure (IE: foam in a case). If things are thick enough, once 'bent back' they keep the shape. I just know the centaur's spear, the Minstrel's sword, some of the candy swords, and TFK's staff are all pretty bent and flimsy. I need to sit down and see how recoverable it is. I know many of the monsters have polearms so I need to see those as well. Also, the minstrel seems to be holding the sword flat-side to face, which differs from the art. So it may be I just have a super warped piece.

Polearm/staves can be fixed with plastirod. Swords are the killer :(

As for material... I can't say for sure. It feels different, but may not be. None of the first gen minis seem this flexible to me. May be the sculpt, not the material. I think I might clean and prep them tonight and I can try to show the problem sculpts and possible fixes.

Did you try boiling the bent bits back? That usually works for this kind of material.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Did you try boiling the bent bits back? That usually works for this kind of material.

Boiling is for making material which is normally rigid, become temporarily soft, so it can assume a new position and then lower in tempt to rigid material. These parts are so thin, that they don't keep shape period. If you push it, it moves and keeps the new space. Sure you can 'bend it back' but you constantly have a lifetime of every-time the model is packed, it will get smooshed in the case and need to be re-bent.

Boiling and re-positioning might work for a thicker piece which is pretty firm but bent, but these poles are thin and just wobbly as hell. I have painted literally hundreds of SDE and Myth models in this form of Board Game Plastic and the issue is when they try to make 'poles' or 'swords' which are too thin. Unlike resin which warps, you can unwarp it because it holds its shape. This stuff is forever bendy when the part of the model is too thin.

I have found using brush-on superglue can give a hard shell to a bendy plastic so I usually do that with blades because you don't lose much detail that way.

I will take pictures... but people who work with these models will quickly see what a joke the centaur's spear and the grobbit's axe is.

nkelsch wrote:
I have found using brush-on superglue can give a hard shell to a bendy plastic so I usually do that with blades because you don't lose much detail that way.

This is how I fix thin bendy plastic pieces usually. Typically the pieces that require are staffs, swords, poles, arrows, etc that are thin but don't' have a lot of detail on them. You can usually rig it to hold hold the piece how you want it to be, then using brush-on superglue or in some cases superglue gel and then q-tip to apply into a thin coat. Once it hardens it usually is hard enough to maintain the shape and paints just fine. Depending on the piece, I've also found cutting them off and then recasting a piece using oyumaru to create a mold, then greenstuff or putty to cast a replacement piece and then glueing it back.

 Dark Severance wrote:

nkelsch wrote:
I have found using brush-on superglue can give a hard shell to a bendy plastic so I usually do that with blades because you don't lose much detail that way.

This is how I fix thin bendy plastic pieces usually. Typically the pieces that require are staffs, swords, poles, arrows, etc that are thin but don't' have a lot of detail on them. You can usually rig it to hold hold the piece how you want it to be, then using brush-on superglue or in some cases superglue gel and then q-tip to apply into a thin coat. Once it hardens it usually is hard enough to maintain the shape and paints just fine. Depending on the piece, I've also found cutting them off and then recasting a piece using oyumaru to create a mold, then greenstuff or putty to cast a replacement piece and then glueing it back.

After inventory, Grobbits and almost all the Chimera guys are close to a total re-do. The polearms pointing up are thinner than the polearms held downward, but they all crazy bendy. Of the heroes, the only two which give concern are the centaur and Minstrel. I will probably do what I did to fix MYTH:


I have to say, some of the TFK models are just fantastic sculpts. The Trolls are really Gems.

Anyways... Here is hoping they have designed all the NAS models to survive the material. Giving models 1/8 inch thick weapons I THINK will make everything work with the material, which from a majority of the designs look like what they have done. I really hope the ONI have thick weapons so they don't end up like Grobbits. There are a lot of ninja designs which could really fall the fate of the chimeras from TFK which would be a bad thing.

nkelsch wrote:


I will take pictures... but people who work with these models will quickly see what a joke the centaur's spear and the grobbit's axe is.

Mine aren't bad. They aren't 100% straight - but above 90 I'd say. The only really bad ones I have are the Minstrel's sword. The Forgotten King's staff at the top and Boris' club. Oh and 1-2 of the little Duckmen's axes.

Next stretch goal hit. Mizaru unlocked. Every clan now has a second hero added for free.



New goal added:


6 Sculpted Lanterns (I expect this link might break when they fix the typo in the graphic).

If anyone doesn't want their scenery, please PM me- I'd be interested in a trade or maybe purchase.

Crap. Missing Ninja Candy. Is there a contact address to get in touch with SodaPop in this case?

Everything else seems to be there. Going to have to check the KS page and do an inventory. Some of these new sculpts are really nice- I really like the plants myself.

Today, I received my Always Super pledge from the Super Dungeon Explore : Forgotten King KS.

If you are missing parts, email info@sodapopminiatures.com

New update today - no new stretch goals. But it addresses the Super Dungeon Explore cross-over cards that have so many people confused.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/sodapopminiatures/ninja-all-stars/posts/1195254

I still think it's a pretty elegant solution. And having spent 3+ hours swapping and putting card sleeves on all my SDE cards this week I'm happy to have such a small and tidy, yet comprehensive addition.

More stretch goals met!

Spooky ghost Ronin unlocked free, for everyone.


Likewise with the trophy.


Next stretch goal: Raccoon/dog? Ronin

Red Panda perhaps?

Schmapdi wrote:
Next backer-based stretch goal reveal. <200 backers to go for scary Japanese ghost ronin

Ha Sadako chan would be the only thing i would be interested in.

Schmapdi wrote:
Next stretch goal: Raccoon/dog?

The word you are looking for is "Tanuki" - which is a Japanease Raccoon Dog spirit. Oddly, the model does not conform to established Japanese lore of having giant testicles. Not even in a symoblic sense.

Inu means dog...
it looks like a dog in the drawing, but the sculpt looks too much like a cat:(...
not enough muzzle on the face...

cheers
jah

edit: damn, just got ninja'd in a thread about ninjas...
should have seen that coming...

I thought it was a dog - but then the art/sculpt looked more cat like. I was going to call it a Tanuki - but then my knowledge of them is limited to the Mario Bros power-up. So I didn't want to risk it.

I like it - whatever it is. Not a big fan of the other non-human ronin so far. But this one works for me.

 jah-joshua wrote:
Inu means dog...
it looks like a dog in the drawing, but the sculpt looks too much like a cat:(...
not enough muzzle on the face...

cheers
jah

edit: damn, just got ninja'd in a thread about ninjas...
should have seen that coming...

Looks like a short snouted version of a Shiba Inu, which does have some cat/fox-ish features.