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Yodhrin wrote:The problem with the "just ally stuff" line, for me personally, is it affronts my sense of order. Without specific versions with the right crew, neither the Guard Rapiers nor the Marine ones "fit"(the latter too much armour, the former too little BS), same goes for tanks. Your solution could work, but I doubt they'd give us something so broad as they'll doubtless wish to keep "flavour" units like Drop Sentinels and fancified artillery from DKoK more limited outside their specific armies. Plus it'd be nice to see specific entries that include some whackier options; AdMech Rapiers should really have all the flavours, including Grav and the new Solar Aux. multi-multilaser. Also, it'd be nice to see a FW book with a a variant Skitarii list that actually has bloody Objective Secured.

And in relation to the post just above this from you; they don't need an excuse to include the Robots, this idea that there are no loyalist Legio Cybernetica after the Heresy seems to be a fan invention. Maybe stuff like Scyllax and Tech-Thralls wouldn't make it, but the basic Robots shouldn't be an issue, and things like the tracked vehicles, Thanatar, and Thallax should still be around as "relic" units in the same fashion as Sicaran tanks for SM.

Hmm, DKoK Engineer-crewed Rapiers would be the closest, they are pretty similar to Skitarii, but I agree, I think Ad Mech should have their own IA, and probably will get one.
Also, totally agree about the no-robots-in-40k thing. The Legio Cybernetica is even mentioned in one of the White Dwarfs covering the new Skitarii releases. I think it is rarer in the 41st Millenium, due to declining tech levels and all that, but I don't think they have been outlawed.

Found the quote:

White Dwarf, Issue 61 wrote:LEGIONS OF MARS
Though often fielded in Battle Maniples, War Cohorts or even entire legions on their own,
the Skitarii will often fight alongside other followers of the Cult Mechanicus, including
the battle robots of the Legio Cybernetica, the vast war engines of the Centurio Ordinatus
and the God-Machines of the Titan Legions.

BrookM wrote:From what I've heard, the 40k versions are the weapons used wrongly, but the Ad-mech kinda sorta lets it slip because it's more effective this way.

Yeah, the first 40k style grav weapon is the Graviton Imploder in the Tagmata list, which uses the same rules as the 40k ones. IIRC, it is not necessarily more effective, but it is much simpler to make and it is very effective at it's role. Made originally on Incaladion or Tigrus, can't remember which one, Incaladion I think, and considered Heresy by more conservative members of the Mechanicum, although there always seems to be at least some members of the Mechanicum who consider new equipment heresy, even if it is STC stuff.

BrookM wrote:Thallax are cyborgs really, so a step up from servitors, I wonder how the Imperium feels about those.

Probably doesn't really matter what the Imperium thinks, as long as Mars says it is officially non-heretical, and it did pre-heresy, so they should be ok. Tbh, Thallax are not all that dissimilar to the new Sicarians, which are also heavily augmented.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Looky Likey wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 SirDonlad wrote:
The big gun is a bit weak compared to a rapier laser destroyer, i recon it needs to be S10 AP1 ordinance1 (laser destroyer is S9 AP1 ordinance1 twin linked)
Going to use one anyway just cause they gave it to the ordo reductor but the rules for the gun arn't as good as it's text makes out.
I'm not sure this loadout is any better than a standard thanatar for the points increase; lovely thing though.

I think this Thanatar is really meant to be the close assault version. The laser is just to have something to peg distant targets with while you're walking up the board to smack things with the grav ram. For me, due to the points, I would only ever field one Thanatar in my Mechanicum army, so that's always going to be the one that gets the Paragon of Metal upgrade. When you factor in the total cost with upgrades on the Calix, you're at 345pts, which is in Imperial Knight territory. At that point, I would honestly take a Questoris Knight Styrix instead for just a few more points. So, I still prefer the plasma mortar version.

how does the styrix compare for ranged anti heavy armour? It's a clear gap in the knight list at present, I have to take something else to cope with ceramite and heavy armour.

I was going to suggest the Errant, but then that is negated somewhat by the Ceramite. Hmm, I think the Lightning gun variant does have Rending, but with just one hit on a tank, it really isn't reliable.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 SirDonlad wrote:
The big gun is a bit weak compared to a rapier laser destroyer, i recon it needs to be S10 AP1 ordinance1 (laser destroyer is S9 AP1 ordinance1 twin linked)
Going to use one anyway just cause they gave it to the ordo reductor but the rules for the gun arn't as good as it's text makes out.
I'm not sure this loadout is any better than a standard thanatar for the points increase; lovely thing though.

I think this Thanatar is really meant to be the close assault version. The laser is just to have something to peg distant targets with while you're walking up the board to smack things with the grav ram. For me, due to the points, I would only ever field one Thanatar in my Mechanicum army, so that's always going to be the one that gets the Paragon of Metal upgrade. When you factor in the total cost with upgrades on the Calix, you're at 345pts, which is in Imperial Knight territory. At that point, I would honestly take a Questoris Knight Styrix instead for just a few more points. So, I still prefer the plasma mortar version.

Yeah man, thats exactly how i was going to use it!
However, i am a little bit sour grapes over only being able to field one with complete control as i can't take cortex controllers and i want that uber-lascannon to really mean something! (other than a token heavy shot)
It feels like the 'normal' thanatar's have a much more effective loadout in the hellex plama mortar for less points.

 SirDonlad wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 SirDonlad wrote:
The big gun is a bit weak compared to a rapier laser destroyer, i recon it needs to be S10 AP1 ordinance1 (laser destroyer is S9 AP1 ordinance1 twin linked)
Going to use one anyway just cause they gave it to the ordo reductor but the rules for the gun arn't as good as it's text makes out.
I'm not sure this loadout is any better than a standard thanatar for the points increase; lovely thing though.

I think this Thanatar is really meant to be the close assault version. The laser is just to have something to peg distant targets with while you're walking up the board to smack things with the grav ram. For me, due to the points, I would only ever field one Thanatar in my Mechanicum army, so that's always going to be the one that gets the Paragon of Metal upgrade. When you factor in the total cost with upgrades on the Calix, you're at 345pts, which is in Imperial Knight territory. At that point, I would honestly take a Questoris Knight Styrix instead for just a few more points. So, I still prefer the plasma mortar version.

Yeah man, thats exactly how i was going to use it!
However, i am a little bit sour grapes over only being able to field one with complete control as i can't take cortex controllers and i want that uber-lascannon to really mean something! (other than a token heavy shot)
It feels like the 'normal' thanatar's have a much more effective loadout in the hellex plama mortar for less points.

Why can't you take a cortex controller?

 Haighus wrote:
I was going to suggest the Errant, but then that is negated somewhat by the Ceramite. Hmm, I think the Lightning gun variant does have Rending, but with just one hit on a tank, it really isn't reliable.

The Errant stuggles with heavy armour, I tend to take Errants as anti Marine with the S6, AP3, heavy 3 gun. I'd be taking multiple of them with enhanced senses and using the Magos power to double the shots if I was trying to crack something like a spartan.

Myrmidons with beamers are the most point efficent way to crack heavy armour, that or the lightning but I'd like something suitable on a big robot chassis to fit the theme of my army.

You know, I'm pretty sure you could get away with using that as a dunecrawler with the neutron laser if you put it on the right base...

 Zuul wrote:
Why can't you take a cortex controller?

Turns out i do have access to one on the 'magos reductor' that i can take from book 2 - I feel foolish! my only solace is that don't have a copy of book two.. {slinks back into a shadowy corner}

 Looky Likey wrote:

 Haighus wrote:
I was going to suggest the Errant, but then that is negated somewhat by the Ceramite. Hmm, I think the Lightning gun variant does have Rending, but with just one hit on a tank, it really isn't reliable.

The Errant stuggles with heavy armour, I tend to take Errants as anti Marine with the S6, AP3, heavy 3 gun. I'd be taking multiple of them with enhanced senses and using the Magos power to double the shots if I was trying to crack something like a spartan.

Myrmidons with beamers are the most point efficent way to crack heavy armour, that or the lightning but I'd like something suitable on a big robot chassis to fit the theme of my army.

Isn't that the Paladin? I thought the Errant was the one with the huge meltagun, a Thermal cannon or some such.

Also, the 30k Paladin has the option of going with the heavy 3 or heavy 2 loadout, so you can beforehand pick which type works best against what you're up against.

 SirDonlad wrote:

 Zuul wrote:
Why can't you take a cortex controller?

Turns out i do have access to one on the 'magos reductor' that i can take from book 2 - I feel foolish! my only solace is that don't have a copy of book two.. {slinks back into a shadowy corner}

What do you play? The latest book iirc from posts expanded the availability of the cortex controller significantly at least for the legions.

I represent the Ordo Reductor! (that's their heraldry in my profile pic)

Haighus wrote:Isn't that the Paladin? I thought the Errant was the one with the huge meltagun, a Thermal cannon or some such.

Probably, I always get those two mixed up.

BrookM wrote:Also, the 30k Paladin has the option of going with the heavy 3 or heavy 2 loadout, so you can beforehand pick which type works best against what you're up against.

I always feel a bit cheesy changing anything in my army list once I've seen what the other guy has even if its a points neutral option, it'd be like swapping out meltas for plasma in a Marine support squad.

Shiny...

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/News/FORGE_WORLD_BULLETIN_55.html

From all of the awesome models we’ve seen coming out of the Forge World Studio lately, you’d be forgiven for thinking that’s all they make all day. It’s not only models though, and it’s not just fantastic books such as the Imperial Armour and Horus Heresy series either. This week I was treated to a sneak peek of something else just before it was sent to the printers - a pair of jaw-droppingly detailed new transfer sheets. Take a look...

Here's hoping Imperial Army gets a sheet as well sooner or later.

They look pretty sweet.

 BrookM wrote:
Here's hoping Imperial Army gets a sheet as well sooner or later.

This. I really want the stuff from HH4, especially that Thunderbolt tail symbol.

Awesome transfers, though there is no shortage of Ultramarine banners available! Gimme mah Minotaurs banners

You might have to wait awhile there - probably not 10,000 years, but...

It's a simple question, do the Minotaurs make an appearance during the Horus Heresy?

No

Hence my 10K years comment!

New and more detailed transfers are a welcome sight though, and if they sell well, I can't imagine FW won't expand that range considerably.

Kind of meh on the idea of super-detailed, very colourful transfers. They don't really fit with the spare aesthetic that's been established with the existing HH stuff which is, if anything, grittier and flatter than 40k Space Marines; kind of like everything got dumped in a huge vat of matte varnish and bumped and scraped on the way out.

If there's any two Legions aside from the Emperor's Children which were flashy, I think that Ultramarines and Word Bearers would fit the bill.

True, but in the studio examples so far painted models of even the EC have been positively drab. The examples of UM and WB kicking around have been dark and devoid of excessive ornamentation. Images from the Calth book from the HH weekend showed blingy specialist troops in terms of decoration (thinking UM breachers in particular) but scheme-wise they were fairly simplistic with few colours and those colours were muted.

But colour-wise, most of the transfers are muted too. The only ones which aren't are the Standards, and if there is one thing in an army that should be impressive and loud, it is a banner.

 Kanluwen wrote:
If there's any two Legions aside from the Emperor's Children which were flashy, I think that Ultramarines and Word Bearers would fit the bill.

Umm.. You're forgetting Blood Angels Kan, all their gak is custom brah!

 SirDonlad wrote:

 Zuul wrote:
Why can't you take a cortex controller?

Turns out i do have access to one on the 'magos reductor' that i can take from book 2 - I feel foolish! my only solace is that don't have a copy of book two.. {slinks back into a shadowy corner}

Don't forget that you can take a Thanatar-Calix as a single model and then give it Paragon of Metal, which makes it immune to Programmed Behavior, and gives it IWND.

 Haighus wrote:
But colour-wise, most of the transfers are muted too. The only ones which aren't are the Standards, and if there is one thing in an army that should be impressive and loud, it is a banner.

Hmmm, the Word Bearers set seems to have quite a few non-banner ones. The majority of the Ultra-sheet does look fine on a second look, I would hope there are no more like the banner one.

Also remember the transfers have to do double duty for those wanting the traditional FW 'weathered' look and those preferring a more GW painting style

you can weather a bright transfer much more easily than you can brighten a dull one

I've always wondered how well the FW transfers actually work. I haven't used a transfer for many years now, do they still look like it was obviously stuck with the shiny edge on or are they more subtle these days?

Edit(s): I really can't spell today...

Transfers today are a lot better than they used to be (thinner, more 'solid' colour etc)

and there are a bunch of aftermarket solutions and techniques borrowed from scale modelling to make them less obvious

(my go to is microsol and microset, eg http://incunabulum.co.uk/blog/2009/09/29/tutorial-decals-with-microsol-and-microset/)