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For me it would be bringing back old epic (titan legion space marine). Would spend a very sizeable chunk of my hard earned cash on it. Failing that dark elder stuff that get changed from fine cast to plastic nah it would have to be old epic.

Its the game I have waited for dzc and planet fall are just not up to the task by any means only game that came close was fow but don't like historical that much always loved my sci-fi

Plastic Thunderhawk, Genestealer cult codex, decently priced mega paint set.

They will already getting my money for the new Bloodthirster and Crusade case.

I'd buy plastic Sisters if they didn't price them at modern GW prices. A squad in plastic will probably cost nearly what one in metal does.

Battle Fleet Gothic

 AegisGrimm wrote:

The rules material from GW is godawful expensive, and overly bloated besides. You shouldn't price the first material new players have to buy at the price they do. It's stupid.

Maybe they could still release a "special edition" rulebook for the players that are fascinated by the intricate details of the organisational structure of the Imperial pencil pushers over the past 10,000 years, there are probably people willing to pay money for that. It would give the rich collectors something to put on display while leaving the rest of us poor players to play.

 Toofast wrote:

 Talys wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

I'm not sure GW can make much more money with table top minis. fact of the matter is wargames are simply a contracting market. honestly the best way to make GW lots of money would proably be "whore out the IP to everyone intreasted in it"

I've said this before, too, but some people vehemently disagreed, saying that tabletop wargames are a growing industry. From what I know through local independent stores in my area, wargames and miniature hobbies are not growing in terms of gross sales dollars or net profits. There are just too many other things to take money from the same target audience (console games, PC games, tabletop card games, etc.), and miniatures/wargames are not only one of the most expensive forms of entertainment for this audience, but also one of the least flexible on the gaming aspect.

I agree with you that licensing the IP is a great path, but I think the way GW had done it is not effective. I think that 40k has as much potential as the Marvel Cinematic Universe, but it's been squandered on relatively weak computer and tablet games, and a bad animated feature that just repeats, "And we shall know no fear!". If they could put together movies of the quality of Guardians of the Galaxy, and animated series the quality of Clone Wars, there would be no end to the potential revenue stream.

The market may be shrinking in your area, but it certainly isn't shrinking nationwide. The TTWG market in North America has experienced 6 straight years of growth. Here's a link to some people that actually keep track of this kind of stuff rather than looking at the 3 mom and pop stores in their neighborhood in Canuckistan.

http://icv2.com/articles/news/view/30959/six-straight-growth-years-hobby-games


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Brian - Please link me to the "facts" where the market is shrinking, I've looked high and low, every fact I've found confirms the exact opposite.

Talys - Not only do the people disagree, every study that's been done on the TTWG market in North America over the last 6 years disagrees. My own personal experience going to 15-20 FLGS in 3 different states on a frequent basis also disagrees.

except I'm talking longer term. the Hobby's peak was in the 80s, it's basicly been on decline ever since.

Maybe for GW, but tons of other companies are booming. Especially small companies, like Hawk Wargames.

GW's stagnation has just colored things to look that way. Hell, lots of the up and comers are succeeding at sections of the market GW abandoned, lime fleet-scale space games and small-scales like 6, 10, and 15mm scale. Pretty much the Specialist Games line.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Toofast wrote:

 Talys wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

I'm not sure GW can make much more money with table top minis. fact of the matter is wargames are simply a contracting market. honestly the best way to make GW lots of money would proably be "whore out the IP to everyone intreasted in it"

I've said this before, too, but some people vehemently disagreed, saying that tabletop wargames are a growing industry. From what I know through local independent stores in my area, wargames and miniature hobbies are not growing in terms of gross sales dollars or net profits. There are just too many other things to take money from the same target audience (console games, PC games, tabletop card games, etc.), and miniatures/wargames are not only one of the most expensive forms of entertainment for this audience, but also one of the least flexible on the gaming aspect.

I agree with you that licensing the IP is a great path, but I think the way GW had done it is not effective. I think that 40k has as much potential as the Marvel Cinematic Universe, but it's been squandered on relatively weak computer and tablet games, and a bad animated feature that just repeats, "And we shall know no fear!". If they could put together movies of the quality of Guardians of the Galaxy, and animated series the quality of Clone Wars, there would be no end to the potential revenue stream.

The market may be shrinking in your area, but it certainly isn't shrinking nationwide. The TTWG market in North America has experienced 6 straight years of growth. Here's a link to some people that actually keep track of this kind of stuff rather than looking at the 3 mom and pop stores in their neighborhood in Canuckistan.

http://icv2.com/articles/news/view/30959/six-straight-growth-years-hobby-games


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Brian - Please link me to the "facts" where the market is shrinking, I've looked high and low, every fact I've found confirms the exact opposite.

Talys - Not only do the people disagree, every study that's been done on the TTWG market in North America over the last 6 years disagrees. My own personal experience going to 15-20 FLGS in 3 different states on a frequent basis also disagrees.

except I'm talking longer term. the Hobby's peak was in the 80s, it's basicly been on decline ever since.

It hasn't been on a decline ever since if it's experienced 6 straight years of growth. Considering how many gaming companies are around and thriving now that weren't around in the 80s (basically all of them other than GW), I find even that very difficult to believe. GW has experienced 6 straight years of falling revenue and profit (when adjusted for inflation) while the market as a whole has experienced 6 straight years of growth. The time for blaming the "shrinking market" for GW's lost revenue and profit is long over. That argument has been thoroughly debunked every way possible. Next!

 Toofast wrote:

The market may be shrinking in your area, but it certainly isn't shrinking nationwide. The TTWG market in North America has experienced 6 straight years of growth. Here's a link to some people that actually keep track of this kind of stuff rather than looking at the 3 mom and pop stores in their neighborhood in Canuckistan.

http://icv2.com/articles/news/view/30959/six-straight-growth-years-hobby-games


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Brian - Please link me to the "facts" where the market is shrinking, I've looked high and low, every fact I've found confirms the exact opposite.

Talys - Not only do the people disagree, every study that's been done on the TTWG market in North America over the last 6 years disagrees. My own personal experience going to 15-20 FLGS in 3 different states on a frequent basis also disagrees.

The study you refer to includes "hobby games", which includes: collectible games, card/dice games, RPGs, and non-collectible miniature games. We're talking about a subcategory of the last one -- I was referring specifically to tabletop wargames. It doesn't help tabletop wargames if Magic the Gathering and Yu-Gi-Oh experience 10,000% growth.

For you information, in our quaint neighbourhood in "Canuckistan" -- perhaps less derogatorily known as Metro Vancouver, the second most expensive real estate in the world (the first, being Hong Kong) -- there are 11 GW authorized stores (including 1 official GW store) right in the metropolitan area of around 25 miles. This doesn't include all of the stores that just don't sell GW (or don't sell GW anymore).

I agree with Brian, also: I'm not talking about short term trends, but rather the trend since 1980, when 40k was a Big Thing, which many teenagers and students in high school and college had heard of. This is no longer the case, and if you asked random people what War Machines was, they'd give you a blank stare.

Alright, let's say I concede all those points. Why have GW's closest competitors all reported growth over the last 5 years while GW has continued to shrink (despite cutting costs, a faster release pace, and price raises at 2-5x the rate of inflation)? That's the question nobody can answer. I don't see how TTWG being more of a niche now than it was 35 YEARS ago is at all relevant to the discussion of the last 5 years and projecting that out to the next 12-24 months. If the market as a whole is on the decline as you all claim, why does that decline only seem to affect GW? It sure hasn't affected PP, corvus belli, mantic, etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw, quotes from article
"Even the non-collectible miniatures game category was up...Retailers reported a broad-based influx of new customers, reflecting a growing awareness of the hobby."

Lots of new customers, growing awareness of the hobby, just LESS OF THEM BUYING GW.

 Toofast wrote:
Alright, let's say I concede all those points. Why have GW's closest competitors all reported growth over the last 5 years while GW has continued to shrink (despite cutting costs, a faster release pace, and price raises at 2-5x the rate of inflation)? That's the question nobody can answer. I don't see how TTWG being more of a niche now than it was 35 YEARS ago is at all relevant to the discussion of the last 5 years and projecting that out to the next 12-24 months. If the market as a whole is on the decline as you all claim, why does that decline only seem to affect GW? It sure hasn't affected PP, corvus belli, mantic, etc.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Btw, quotes from article
"Even the non-collectible miniatures game category was up...Retailers reported a broad-based influx of new customers, reflecting a growing awareness of the hobby."

Lots of new customers, growing awareness of the hobby, just LESS OF THEM BUYING GW.

Non-collectible miniature games also includes stuff like Mars Attacks, which is why I said we are looking at a subsection of that.

Anyways, I don't deny fewer people are buying 40k (although it is still #1, and I suspect #2, XWing, is a far distant #2), nor do I deny that new games like WMH are growing. My point was that as a total ratio of entertainment spending / disposable income, and awareness in terms of the target market knowing anything about these games, it has shrunk significantly from its peak (as Brian put it, the 80s).

I do NOT have the numbers to back it up. I could be wrong. However, I can guarantee you that it has NOT kept up with the explosive growth of video games, just as RPGs have not kept up wit MMPRPG spending. I don't think it's even in he same strata, since a good game like GTA can make hundreds of millions with a single title.

 Phyrekzhogos wrote:

 Co'tor Shas wrote:


Actually, there is a card game, made by FFG. They do that and all the RPGs.

That's kinda crazy. I've never even seen the card game anywhere. That's kinda sad, 'cause I'd probably have impulse bought it.

It was fairly huge 10-15 years ago. Then the original game was scrapped in favour of a revised version with all new cards, and people deserted it in droves. These days it's barely ever seen.

What would it take? Dance for me Kirby, dance rummy!

Eldar terrain would be absolutely wonderful. Orky terrain I can build myself. Tau scenery would be nice, but probably not sell as well as Eldar terrain.

Codex: Kasrkin and new plastic Kasrkin.

 insaniak wrote:
Yeah, getting me to spend money on GW stuff again would require a new edition with functional, complete rules, and a return to more reasonably priced, softcover codexes.

There are plenty of models that I would love to buy, but without the lure of the game to make buying those models worthwhile, my hobby budget currently goes to all those other companies that are also making models that I want to buy.

This^
I would love to play 40K again if GW actually put in serious effort to make a good game with balanced rules and reasonably priced products. Oh and stop jerking around your customers - put all the relevant rules for an army together and release at that time - if supplements are released later to add some different element or playstyle well after release is one thing, but... Think of the tyranid release - another poor codex with little effort to make a good product and fix problems that has flavour removed - then release dataslates at the same time to provide formation options/flavour that could have been handled mostly within the dex. Then release other supplements and units with separate rules or practically require FW models and rules to make a decent army (eg malanthrope is such a superior and needed unit in many cases). So to have all the rules to play my army I have to spend many times what I did just a few years ago. What a mess.

And adding absurd costs - go to hardcover and if it costs GW $2 a copy to do that charge an extra $15-20. NExt I expect they will raise the text or put metal corners on the cover, and if it costs them $2 more a dex to do that the dex cost will rise another $20. GW greed knows no bounds.

So yes, I would spend money on GW product if 40K was made into a good game (it has such potential), prices were reasonable and if GW stopped jerking around their customers.

Plastic Sisters of Battle that are less than $90 a squad.

Also this will sound odd but, if GW ever reduced prices by 20%-25% I'd rather suddenly go on a buying spree like no other.

A plastic Keeper of Secrets based on the old bull-headed KoS, and a nice, shiny Codex: Slaanesh Daemonkin to go with it.

Well, looks like it just happened for me;

They can have my money...



Great job GW!

Bundle packs that are actually a serious bargain.

The most I've ever dropped in one period for GW merchandise was at the tail end of 4th edition when Apocalypse came out. 10 Leman Russes for $300? 3 Vindicators for $90? Buying a Battle company in one fell swoop and at a 25% discount?

I bought a staggering amount of stuff in that period. Plenty of things I outright did not need. If they offered some deals like that again I'd probably get in on it again… why would you not?

Mordheim! BFG! Lamenters anything

Price reduction by at least half, then I could consider getting first hand models.

 Dust wrote:
Bundle packs that are actually a serious bargain.

The most I've ever dropped in one period for GW merchandise was at the tail end of 4th edition when Apocalypse came out. 10 Leman Russes for $300? 3 Vindicators for $90? Buying a Battle company in one fell swoop and at a 25% discount?

I bought a staggering amount of stuff in that period. Plenty of things I outright did not need. If they offered some deals like that again I'd probably get in on it again… why would you not?

Huge period of spending for me as well.

Plastic Devestators and scouts, Attack bike went total plastic as well. Those bundle deals were the best!

As I think about GW's problems, I keep circling back to Magic, my other too-expensive hobby. Here's the deal there: I can go in and spend a lot on cards – but I can also tweak my deck on the cheap. Magic also has several supported formats, which means I have natural "competitiveness" and "gameplay options" sliders.

WHFB, on the other hand – which is where I'd be, if I had my druthers – basically has "big" and "really big" as its playable points. Inexpensive tweaks basically don't exist – solos start around 20 USD. The expense and scope of the game are daunting; add in codex creep and rules overhauls every 4 years, and it gets hard to justify using GW rules at all.

That puts GW in the position of selling cool minis – and that's a tiny market.

Here's what I'd propose to GW to get more of my hard-earned cash:

1. Create and support more games that use Fantasy and 40K miniatures. If done properly, you'll get feeder games that stand on their own. Mordheim's a perfect example – I still see leagues for that game. Hell, last time I considered playing Mordheim, I ended up spending over 100 USD. (Personally, I'd want to see a second, mid-tier game centered around monstrous creatures. Think Medieval Kaiju.)

2. Create a line of "value" packages. I'm not asking for price cuts here. Rather, I want to see kits at the low end of the price scale that cater to as many demographics as possible. Example: A blister of 3 plastic models with a wide variety of bits for 20-25 USD. This set would a) let new players add generic heroes and solos to their forces easily; b) let vets tweak or personalize armies cheaply; and c) have crazy-high value in Mordheim and other small-scale skirmish games. This is the kind of box I'd impulse-buy every few weeks: Something that let me tool a Mordheim force, or just gave me the bits to put together a cool figure because that's a hell of a lot of fun.

3. For the love of Gork, put IP-scrubbed versions of rules online for free. Multiple 50+ USD rulebooks to play a miniatures game? Nope, sorry.

In short: Let me spend my money in drips and drabs, give me options, and let me start playing with your IP off a single 100 USD splurge. Stop putting up roadblocks to your games, GW!

New Khorne Berzerkers. I'm a simple guy.

FWIW, I also would have that exact reaction if the Tyranid Tyrannocyte ever got the drop pod assault rule

Re-releasing BFG and all the specialist games. That would make me love them even more than I already do.

Sisters of Battle is the one remaining thread that keeps my interest in GW's games. To get me to fork over any sum of money it would require a '(well done) new release for the sisters with new (quality) models.

To get me to fork over a lot of money? Well, they would need to magically get all the people I used to play with to pick-up the game again, and I've no idea how they'd wrangle that.

Evidently, all it takes is for them to make a really well designed miniature case.

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/blog/blog.jsp;jsessionid=E171903F2F373146EB387438B8E6308C

That is so much more efficient than the mishmash of generic cases I currently use (that's pretty much all pick & pluck) that it's not funny. I am going to preorder 2x of the Crusade cases.. and it might turn into something like 5-10 of them to just replace all of my existing cases if it really works out well. That's like $1000 in miniature cases (figuring a 25% discount)... lol.

No way that foam looks like it sucks. Not attached to the bottom of each tray (i think?) so models can migrate under it if mishandled, and drop the case on its end and ll the models inside all cram to the bottom of their particular channel. At least pluck foam keeps them from moving in any direction.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
No way that foam looks like it sucks. Not attached to the bottom of each tray (i think?) so models can migrate under it if mishandled, and drop the case on its end and ll the models inside all cram to the bottom of their particular channel. At least pluck foam keeps them from moving in any direction.

The problem with pluck foam is that once you pluck it, you're stuck with that size. Which is ok with mostly infantry armies, but vehicles.... that's just a whole other thing. I want a cases that can transport all manner of GW vehicles, whether it's voidravens, rhinos, or baneblades. Also, I'll largely be removing them from a display case to take somewhere.