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My top 5 would be;

Nuke: Wraith knights - I honestly don't think they are necessary, what with both wraith guard and wraith lords already in the mix. if you want big go forge world.
Nerf: Riptides - pts increase.
Nerf: Grav guns + Grav cannons reduce volume of shots or amend salvo rule to negate relentless/slow and purposeful rules.
Nerf: Necron Wraiths - pts increase but as far as rules-fluff goes they are perfect.
Nuke: Malefic demon summoning - unnecessary for 40k. cool for a campaign though.

Special shout outs to:
Nerf -Flyrants
Nerf -Wave Serpents
Nerf -Broadsides

Your turn!

But why nuke daemon summoning... Its what made daemons... You know... COOL! It needs a nerf, but is to fun to be axed from the game.

 dragoonmaster101 wrote:
But why nuke daemon summoning... Its what made daemons... You know... COOL! It needs a nerf, but is to fun to be axed from the game.

demons are cool as they are, summoning more units ( points) to the board is an unnecessary imbalance to the game.

 Wilson wrote:

 dragoonmaster101 wrote:
But why nuke daemon summoning... Its what made daemons... You know... COOL! It needs a nerf, but is to fun to be axed from the game.

demons are cool as they are, summoning more units ( points) to the board is an unnecessary imbalance to the game.

When you're summoning dedicated melee units in a shooting-oriented game and a hundred points of Inquisitors makes them functionally useless? I don't think so.

I agree Wraiths should have been an additional 5 points more per model or something, but they're still not game-breakingly OP in my opinion (I play Necrons, but rarely use Wraiths, mind you). So 45 points per model would be fine.

And I would vote Nuke Grav Guns. I don't know why they gave those to Space Marines in the first place. Oh wait, yeah I do. GW loves all the little children.

And I only vote nerf the Wraithknight. I just hate the spamability of them, and the fact that not every army can even deal with them.

Tervigon's are alright though xD

I think I would nerf Flyrants, Wave Serpents, Riptides, Grav and Imperial Knights.

Special shoutout to the Transcendent C'tan who...oh wait

As to my list superheavies in standard games should either be gone or come with a handicap, Resurrection Protocols should be ignoreable somehow, SV2+/3+ MCs in general need a points increase, Wave Serpents shouldn't be allowed to jink after firing the Serpent Shield (make it an actual trade-off), and the all-crew-are-always-T7-against-shooting on artillery platforms needs to be gone completely.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

 dragoonmaster101 wrote:
But why nuke daemon summoning... Its what made daemons... You know... COOL! It needs a nerf, but is to fun to be axed from the game.

demons are cool as they are, summoning more units ( points) to the board is an unnecessary imbalance to the game.

When you're summoning dedicated melee units in a shooting-oriented game and a hundred points of Inquisitors makes them functionally useless? I don't think so.

You are still adding in additional threats that have to be dealt with and therefore creating an imbalance.

Also not everyone takes an inquisitor with servo skulls in their lists but I'm guessing you might do by your picture!

 Wilson wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

 dragoonmaster101 wrote:
But why nuke daemon summoning... Its what made daemons... You know... COOL! It needs a nerf, but is to fun to be axed from the game.

demons are cool as they are, summoning more units ( points) to the board is an unnecessary imbalance to the game.

When you're summoning dedicated melee units in a shooting-oriented game and a hundred points of Inquisitors makes them functionally useless? I don't think so.

You are still adding in additional threats that have to be dealt with and therefore creating an imbalance.

Also not everyone takes an inquisitor with servo skulls in their lists but I'm guessing you might do by your picture!

If the threats were threatening and could do any damage, maybe.

I would nerf:

Gravcannons
Flyrants
Summoning
Wraiths
Wave Serpents

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Wilson wrote:

 dragoonmaster101 wrote:
But why nuke daemon summoning... Its what made daemons... You know... COOL! It needs a nerf, but is to fun to be axed from the game.

demons are cool as they are, summoning more units ( points) to the board is an unnecessary imbalance to the game.

When you're summoning dedicated melee units in a shooting-oriented game and a hundred points of Inquisitors makes them functionally useless? I don't think so.

You are still adding in additional threats that have to be dealt with and therefore creating an imbalance.

Also not everyone takes an inquisitor with servo skulls in their lists but I'm guessing you might do by your picture!

If the threats were threatening and could do any damage, maybe.

Come on mate...thats really dumb thing to say.

screamers, plague riders, bloodletters, plaguebearers, heralds all have the potential to add damage output to any army and are free.

Nothing. I'd buff a few things that never get played, like mandrakes, wyches, and SM assault marines.

 Wilson wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
<LONG>

Come on mate...thats really dumb thing to say.

screamers, plague riders, bloodletters, plaguebearers, heralds all have the potential to add damage output to any army and are free.

I can tell you from practical experience trying to play a summon-spam list I have never had anything short of a summoned Greater Daemon contribute anything to the outcome of a game.

Could I nuke Grey Knights?

SGTPozy wrote:
Could I nuke Grey Knights?

You may!

Wraithknight - Apocalypse unit in HS in an army already extremely powerful. Redundant role, superior to all other choices in slot, massively undercosted.
Riptide - Breaks Tau fluff, hard counter to pretty much any infantry unit and very durable, poorly designed with one amazing main gun, and one completely mediocre main gun
Helturkey - even nerfed, still a hard counter to any MEQ army, never has to jink, aesthetic doesn't fit CSM at all.
Bladestorm - Not a weapon or unit, but having blanket rending for an army is infuriating when so many armies pay a premium for their armour saves
Thunderwolves - Flatly superior to otherwise very good bikes, and an incedibly stupid concept.

All of these are nukes, by the way, remove them completely.

Nerf grav guns, expensive tanks aren't even worth taking because of these things. They need to stop stripping additional HP after the immobilization(or just remove the immobilization part) then I think they would be strong but not overpowered.

Overall, there are just too many things in the game that make attributes like high toughness and armor redundant. I'm talking mostly about things that outperform plasma weapons while not being significantly more expensive than plasma weapons and not having the drawbacks plasma weapons do have. For starters, I do not consider plasma weapons to be too expensive as they are, it's just that everything else just seems too good and too cheap at the same time.

So it's either nerf or price hike in points cost. Things able to (almost) wipe out an entire squad of space marines per shooting phase should either be extremely costly or not exist at all.

Skimmers are simply too good, but they've been so for several editions already. Wave serpents are the worst offenders but hardly the only ones.

As for grav guns, I've heard good things about the original ForgeWorld rules, but never actually looked them up.

 MajorStoffer wrote:
Wraithknight - Apocalypse unit in HS in an army already extremely powerful. Redundant role, superior to all other choices in slot, massively undercosted.
Riptide - Breaks Tau fluff, hard counter to pretty much any infantry unit and very durable, poorly designed with one amazing main gun, and one completely mediocre main gun
All of these are nukes, by the way, remove them completely.

Riptide and Wraithknights seem to be key offenders - I would suggest moving them to a LOW slot and making them Super heavies. Gives both codex's a plastic LOW and limits them to one per army ( if you play sensibly. only issue is making everyone with 5 riptides angry beavers.

Pretty certain that players capitalizing on spamming broken units know that the nerfhammer is coming, albeit slowly. It has always happened from codex to codex and edition to edition ( and so has the whining, see previous editions for whinefests such as "what do I do with my 9 obliterators now QQ" and the infamous "I modeled Starcannons everywhere, oh my god GW!" )

If someone really starts whining when their 5 Riptides/Waveserpents/Wraithknights get nerfed one way or the other they are either pathetic or purely, sincerely clueless and ignorant.

Nerf - Serpent Shield. On the whole, Serpents aren't bad. It's only when you factor in the Serpent Shield do people really start to complain.

Nuke Super-heavies and Gargantuan Creatures. They are fine for Apocalypse, but not so much regular 40k.

Nuke current wound allocation. I find it hard to believe that a tactical marine trained in the use of heavy weapons from his days in the Devastators doesn't know enough to pick up his buddies weapon.

Nuke overwatch. Or at least change it. Maybe go back to 2nd ed where you could set to fire overwatch but you don't get to shoot in the shooting phase.

Leaving out special characters

Necron Wraiths - these guys are simply way too fast, resilient, and killy, they simply have no downside. They were already thought to be undercosted at T4 in the earlier codex. At T5, they could be 60ppm and still not be overcosted. At a minimum, I'd reduce them to T4 at their current price.

Knights - Make them a singular Lord of War option instead of their own army or a formation of superheavies.

Wave Serpents - make shield simply just a 5+ invul save, or a one-use short-range option that loses shield roll permanently.

Riptide - Drop 1 wound.

Flyrants - they could use a price increase of ~25pts.

Honorable Mentions

Grav Centurions
Bikes in general
Nrugle FMC's
Wraightknight (make LoW & GC)

As for any singular mechanic? or rule?

Jink. This rule is so wonky and overcapable that it's absurd.

My choices:

Tactical squads
Scout squads
Terminator squads
Rhinos
Land Raiders

All of them are gone, including the model kits to make them. Why? Because you can't fix 40k by changing a mere five units, so I might as well kill off the most popular army, drive GW bankrupt, and increase the chance that the IP is bought by a better company that can fix the game properly.

 Peregrine wrote:
My choices:

Tactical squads
Scout squads
Terminator squads
Rhinos
Land Raiders

All of them are gone, including the model kits to make them. Why? Because you can't fix 40k by changing a mere five units, so I might as well kill off the most popular army, drive GW bankrupt, and increase the chance that the IP is bought by a better company that can fix the game properly.

Cheers for the opinion, whether or not it was worth while....

I will also include buff in this list because why not.

Nerf-

wave serpents - remove the serpent shield entirely, or just make it a shooting attack.

wraithnights - maybe just one per army

riptides - just remove the earth caste array thing from the farsight book, and remove their FNP

tactical marines - maybe like one less initiative and slow and purposeful (would that be OP?)

nuke -

grav weapons - f*ck those things, stupid. Although they are a hard counter to riptides and wraithnights, but still, remove them.

DP deamon parties - remove the ability to take them as heavy support

tugerius - too strong for SM, really good spell caster

And they shall know no fear - wayyyy to good, maybe allow them to be sweeping advanced, and reroll failed regroup tests, and cant act normally that turn.

SM in general- IMO, too well rounded, and annoying to fight. In addition, they get too much love.

Buff -

eldar rangers - give them camo cloaks instead of stealth

terminators - give them two wounds (I know, hypocritical)





Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and nuke reanimation protocals.

 Peregrine wrote:
My choices:

Tactical squads
Scout squads
Terminator squads
Rhinos
Land Raiders

All of them are gone, including the model kits to make them. Why? Because you can't fix 40k by changing a mere five units, so I might as well kill off the most popular army, drive GW bankrupt, and increase the chance that the IP is bought by a better company that can fix the game properly.

If you have anything worthwhile to say, then why bother posting?

You keep posting all this "GW is Terrible" Gak, why? Why not just leave 40k and move on to something else? Leave the rest of us out of it. If you hate GW, fine! But STOP psoting things like this. It serves no point at all .We already know you hate the game. Just quit and be done with it. Leave us out of it.


I'd nerf...

Wave Serpents
Riptides.
That one IG tank with tons of Small blasts. (Wyvern I think?)
Vindicators.
and I'd nuke SoB. Just a personal choice. Never liked 'em. Not hating on them. Not hating on those who play them. I like some of the memes. But I just do not like SoB

Happyjew wrote:
Nuke current wound allocation. I find it hard to believe that a tactical marine trained in the use of heavy weapons from his days in the Devastators doesn't know enough to pick up his buddies weapon.

And all the power packs which are built in to his backpack? What about the cyclone missile launcher on the back of a terminator, or a power first on a death company marine? Sure the next guy could pick up Steve's melta gun, but where do you draw the line? For me the wound allocation that we have right now makes perfect sense.

Vaktathi wrote:
Jink. This rule is so wonky and overcapable that it's absurd.

True, it's just yet another reason why I sometimes feel bad playing Eldar! That and bladestorm, as has been already mentioned...

 master of asgard wrote:

Happyjew wrote:
Nuke current wound allocation. I find it hard to believe that a tactical marine trained in the use of heavy weapons from his days in the Devastators doesn't know enough to pick up his buddies weapon.

And all the power packs which are built in to his backpack? What about the cyclone missile launcher on the back of a terminator, or a power first on a death company marine? Sure the next guy could pick up Steve's melta gun, but where do you draw the line? For me the wound allocation that we have right now makes perfect sense.

I refuse to believe that there is a marine called Steve.


Agree that you have to draw a line somewhere - just imagine the gun also gets destroyed when the wielder is slain.

Warmachine has a rule called Take-up. When a model with the rule is killed another model within 1" in the same unit can be replaced with the model that was killed.

That could work nicely.

SGTPozy wrote:
Could I nuke Grey Knights?

well conveniantly for you grey knights basicly only have 5 or so units

course you might wanna focus on the units/dexes that are actually OP THIS edition


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 krodarklorr wrote:


And I would vote Nuke Grav Guns. I don't know why they gave those to Space Marines in the first place. Oh wait, yeah I do. GW loves all the little children.

before the space marine codex the meta was also dominated by MCs like the dreadknight, wraithknight and riptide. I'm convinced the Gravweapon was GWs response to that domination, by giving the most commonly played 'dex a potential hard counter.