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So with the end times changing fantasy will the same happen to 40k? Will the golden throne fail? Will the emperor get off the golden throne to save humanity with a host of other Primarchs? Will the galaxy be consumed by Chaos? What will happen to the various armies? This may have been discussed in another thread but I can't be bothered to find it. What do you think?

Personally I think GW is just going to concentrate on 30k/40k. Seems to be how the rumors are coming along.

Phasing out/shrinking Fantasy, 30k getting a big plastic focus, 40k still going strong.

Too bad for me, I just started a Beastmen army. :(

That will likely not happen. 40k is still selling. If WHFB 9th sees a huge resurgence, you might see them starting to eye 40k but it would have to be pretty darned huge.

I thought 40K was already fantasy???

MB

40k is alive and well.

End Times is Fantasy's 30k. A big cataclysmic event that changes the setting forever.

The End Times in 40k is pretty much everyday life, something barely noticeable.

Game wise 40k has been getting Campaigns every half of the year for almost two years that do similar things to the End Times books.

Jesus I hope not. The latest end time book brought a literal end to the Old World. Everyone died.

We may joke that GW never advances the plot, but there's a big difference between advancing the plot and bring the plot to a close. Wouldn't want that for 40K. Not at all.

 Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:
End Times is Fantasy's 30k. A big cataclysmic event that changes the setting forever.

That's an interesting point of view that I'd not thought of, but still, at the end of the HH the galaxy wasn't annihilated.

The only way we're ever going to see that kind of thing in 40k is if GW has been infiltrated by WOTC/FFG/etc and the goal is to finally drive GW bankrupt and lower the eventual price to buy the 40k IP. Otherwise rule #1 of milking the cash cow is do not do anything that puts the cash cow in danger. You do not kill off the entire current fluff and hope that your reboot is successful, you keep milking the cash cow with low-risk releases as long as you possibly can.

The sad thing is that, after writing the previous paragraph, I'm starting to have my doubts about calling it an absolute "no" and starting to wonder if maybe GW really is stupid enough to do something like that.

It's weird but I actually read the last bit of the Archaeon End Times book and I don't see it as an end to the Warhammer World, but more of a reboot.

Pretty sure that little glowing sphere is the Warhammer World which will be reborn.

Gives GW a chance to start Warhammer all over again from scratch which isn't a bad thing as I think it needed it.

In terms of 40K getting the WHFB treatment, I think tbh 40K is already how WHFB will end up.

40k models are on round bases because the game was intended to be a small scale skirmish game. WHFB was supposed to be the game with huge ranks of toys.

40K now does what WHFB used to do, only apparently now does it better.

I think the new WHFB will be more like 40k in terms of gameplay.

So will 40k get the fantasy treatment?

No. They might get a smattering of the 30k treatment.

 Nard wrote:
So with the end times changing fantasy will the same happen to 40k? Will the golden throne fail? Will the emperor get off the golden throne to save humanity with a host of other Primarchs? Will the galaxy be consumed by Chaos? What will happen to the various armies? This may have been discussed in another thread but I can't be bothered to find it. What do you think?

I wouldn't be surprised if they are using WHFB End Times as a testing ground.

WHFB was perfect for the End Times treatment because it was already on it's way down...it was either change it or kill it off completely. If 9th goes over well they might consider it for 40k. If 9th does better than 40k in sales, then yes they will.

In the end, it is about how this new version of fantasy does.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

StraightSilver wrote:
Gives GW a chance to start Warhammer all over again from scratch which isn't a bad thing as I think it needed it.

This has been my thought as well. They are turning back the clock so they can have a second go of the game instead of tossing it.

StraightSilver wrote:
It's weird but I actually read the last bit of the Archaeon End Times book and I don't see it as an end to the Warhammer World, but more of a reboot.

Pretty sure that little glowing sphere is the Warhammer World which will be reborn.

Gives GW a chance to start Warhammer all over again from scratch which isn't a bad thing as I think it needed it.

Yes, but they effected that reboot by literally destroying everything. All of the characters, units, and armies that you or anyone else loved over the 30-plus years of the game are as of now, dead. Even if they magically bring any of it back, that doesn't change the fact that they burned everything down to do so. GW has shown that nothing from the game was sacred enough to automatically keep.

Whether or not 40K gets the Fantasy treatment depends on how it goes for Fantasy. If the "reboot" causes sales to bounce back, I absolutely see them doing the same thing. Can anyone honestly say they think GW wouldn't, if they thought it would make them more money?

 ProtoClone wrote:

 Nard wrote:
So with the end times changing fantasy will the same happen to 40k? Will the golden throne fail? Will the emperor get off the golden throne to save humanity with a host of other Primarchs? Will the galaxy be consumed by Chaos? What will happen to the various armies? This may have been discussed in another thread but I can't be bothered to find it. What do you think?

I wouldn't be surprised if they are using WHFB End Times as a testing ground.

WHFB was perfect for the End Times treatment because it was already on it's way down...it was either change it or kill it off completely. If 9th goes over well they might consider it for 40k. If 9th does better than 40k in sales, then yes they will.

In the end, it is about how this new version of fantasy does.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

StraightSilver wrote:
Gives GW a chance to start Warhammer all over again from scratch which isn't a bad thing as I think it needed it.

This has been my thought as well. They are turning back the clock so they can have a second go of the game instead of tossing it.

Except they aren't turning back the clock on themselves. The GW of today would never be able to accomplish what the GW of yesterday did.

I'm a bit torn on whether I want 40k to get the "fantasy treatment". On the one hand, I want some serious changes in 40k like an advancement of the plot on the magnitude of the 30k/40k changes (50k?) as well as a serious change in the rules... but the devil is in the details. I have zero faith in GW not trying to turn the changeover into yet another cheap and easy cash in to force people to largely rebuy what they already have (see the 2 year edition life cycle and rumors that 2 year old codex books will be redone THIS year).

What do I want? I want a purpose built skirmish scale 40k game system. As a player, I'm pushing back against the steady 4 year creep of apocalypse into "normal" 40k. Back in 5th edition, when I wanted to play apoc, I played apoc. Now, there is no difference between the two. Unfortunately, I don't see GW backtracking on that given all the goofy ridiculously large kits they've come out with that are playable in 1000pt games.

The biggest impediment to GW advancing the 40k timeline was their own stupidity in when they set all their recent campaigns and in-universe events. They're all within the last few years of the 41st millenium, so to advance you have to set it in the 42nd, and now its Warhamer 41K.

They literally had a full millenium to mess around in and they blew it.

I sure hope not. 40K is good as it is currently.

40k's basically already at the End Times. All the fluff dated at the end of the 41st millennium is going on about how everything's just at the precipice of going to hell.

 kronk wrote:
So will 40k get the fantasy treatment?

No. They might get a smattering of the 30k treatment.

I sure hope not!


Models that cost 1.5x as much, sourcebooks nobody has seen...

WayneTheGame wrote:

 ProtoClone wrote:

 Nard wrote:
So with the end times changing fantasy will the same happen to 40k? Will the golden throne fail? Will the emperor get off the golden throne to save humanity with a host of other Primarchs? Will the galaxy be consumed by Chaos? What will happen to the various armies? This may have been discussed in another thread but I can't be bothered to find it. What do you think?

I wouldn't be surprised if they are using WHFB End Times as a testing ground.

WHFB was perfect for the End Times treatment because it was already on it's way down...it was either change it or kill it off completely. If 9th goes over well they might consider it for 40k. If 9th does better than 40k in sales, then yes they will.

In the end, it is about how this new version of fantasy does.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

StraightSilver wrote:
Gives GW a chance to start Warhammer all over again from scratch which isn't a bad thing as I think it needed it.

This has been my thought as well. They are turning back the clock so they can have a second go of the game instead of tossing it.

Except they aren't turning back the clock on themselves. The GW of today would never be able to accomplish what the GW of yesterday did.

Right, but they are turning back the clock on WHFB so they can have a new chance at it.

Gragga Da Krumpa wrote:

 kronk wrote:
So will 40k get the fantasy treatment?

No. They might get a smattering of the 30k treatment.

I sure hope not!


Models that cost 1.5x as much, sourcebooks nobody has seen...

I was thinking more along the lines of cheaper, plastic HH models. Hoping is more like...

Warhammer: The Second Age!

Also available: Classic Warhammer!

Two books, twice the price, all the same models!

 notprop wrote:
Warhammer: The Second Age!

Also available: Classic Warhammer!

Two books, twice the price, all the same models!

And necessary rules split between both for customer ease!

Never underestimate GW's capacity for baffling decisions.

I'd like to answer "no," but I find I can't say it with 100% confidence. The Warhammer world went down the plughole so nothing can be off the table.

I'd only be OK with an 'End Times' reboot of 40K if they intended to structure the game properly. The game, while it is fun, is a mess. It tries too hard to be too many things. I think it might be too early to consider a total overhaul too, since 7th has only really been thrust in our laps. (Not to say rushing a rulebook out quickly isn't out of the norm now)

What I'd really like for them to do, is keep all the factions. Nothing needs to be 'squatted', and nothing really needs to be consolidated into group books. (Though having all Marine chapters other than Chaos in one book would be kind of nice, IMO. I'm a man who loves options. And having access to a plethora of options like that would be nice, all in one book. Or putting Eldar/DE into one book, Chaos and Daemons in one book, keeping 'similar' groups close...not mandatory but might be nice too)

I'd also like them to structure the game into different 'levels' of game play. Have specific rule sets for Skirmish level, War level, and Apoc level games. While having multiple sets might 'confuse' new players, it allows overall control of what you and your opponent will be playing, helps cut down the stupidity of the game on a larger scale, and allows for unique, tight gameplay at each level.

I'd like to see a slight streamlining of the rules (can we just have toughness and wounds for everything now?), all Eldar in one book, all marines (including GK) in one book, all chaos in one book, and while I'm curious to see what the 43rd millennium looks like, the Caiphas Cain series tells us things get better, so I'm good.

As far as end times? No. We have 30k and 40k... Both are healthy, both doing well, neither needs a reboot. No slaying the golden goose, yet.

Why does GW think they need to destroy everything to advance it? You can tell a compelling story while maintaining the same characters and setting.
But if they advance the timeline, they'd have trouble calling it "40k." problem is a problem, just not sure hoe much of a problem.
If I were in charge, I'd just advance the time line and open up a new world of possibilities.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Why does GW think they need to destroy everything to advance it? You can tell a compelling story while maintaining the same characters and setting.

I said the same thing about Wizards of the coast before... I think they have systematically nuked half of their settings across several products

GW advanced the plot.
Everyone died.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Jesus I hope not. The latest end time book brought a literal end to the Old World. Everyone died.

We may joke that GW never advances the plot, but there's a big difference between advancing the plot and bring the plot to a close. Wouldn't want that for 40K. Not at all.

 Drk_Oblitr8r wrote:
End Times is Fantasy's 30k. A big cataclysmic event that changes the setting forever.

That's an interesting point of view that I'd not thought of, but still, at the end of the HH the galaxy wasn't annihilated.

yeah, but the Emperor's vision for the Imperium was, leading to the grimdark, seriously dystopic setting of 40K. Without the Heresy, the Imperium is like Ulramar, dominating the galaxy and the alien empires are but gnats. So in that way, it is a cataclysmic event that changed the setting forever.

It's an interesting question. I don't see it working out for fantasy and they'd hopefully learn from what's about to happen, but GW seems to be slowly and methodically painting themselves into a corner. I think it's too early to call, i suspect kirby will have decided to finally retire right before they need to seriously raise that question.