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 Istvaan wrote:

 GearheadXII wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
GW could never get the mix right, but FW could.

Do you mean to say the FW resin models were better resin? Or was it that their QA process was better?

I mean, they're all Citadel miniatures, right? They're all made at the same place, by the same people, on the same equipment....right?

I'm not sure if you're serious or sarcastic there.

 Istvaan wrote:

 GearheadXII wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
GW could never get the mix right, but FW could.

Do you mean to say the FW resin models were better resin? Or was it that their QA process was better?

I mean, they're all Citadel miniatures, right? They're all made at the same place, by the same people, on the same equipment....right?

Same place, yes. (Well, same facility, but I think different areas.)

Same people and equipment, no.

The Auld Grump

Serious.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Istvaan wrote:

 GearheadXII wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
GW could never get the mix right, but FW could.

Do you mean to say the FW resin models were better resin? Or was it that their QA process was better?

I mean, they're all Citadel miniatures, right? They're all made at the same place, by the same people, on the same equipment....right?

Same place, yes. (Well, same facility, but I think different areas.)

Same people and equipment, no.

The Auld Grump

I mean, I know resin models are not made on the same equipment as plastic models. But I just can't imagine that FW resin models are made on different equipment than GW resin models. The moulds must be made by one entity, you know? And, the goo must be from one place. It's not like GW is getting different goo than FW.

 Istvaan wrote:
Serious.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 Istvaan wrote:

 GearheadXII wrote:

 Ratius wrote:
GW could never get the mix right, but FW could.

Do you mean to say the FW resin models were better resin? Or was it that their QA process was better?

I mean, they're all Citadel miniatures, right? They're all made at the same place, by the same people, on the same equipment....right?

Same place, yes. (Well, same facility, but I think different areas.)

Same people and equipment, no.

The Auld Grump

I mean, I know resin models are not made on the same equipment as plastic models. But I just can't imagine that FW resin models are made on different equipment than GW resin models. The moulds must be made by one entity, you know? And, the goo must be from one place. It's not like GW is getting different goo than FW.

You might think so, but again, no.

Different material for the resins - and a completely different way of casting those resins.

Sad to say, the Forge World resin and machines are older. Finecast was supposed to be the New and Improved material.... Spincasting is much faster - and that turned out to be its only advantage.

The Auld Grump

 Istvaan wrote:


I mean, I know resin models are not made on the same equipment as plastic models. But I just can't imagine that FW resin models are made on different equipment than GW resin models. The moulds must be made by one entity, you know? And, the goo must be from one place. It's not like GW is getting different goo than FW.

I doubt they're made from the similar moulds either. FW resin is different (harder and sharper on corners) with a large triangular wall sprue at the bottom that is impossible to warp whereas GW finecast has a plastic style surrounding sprue that almost always is warped. A few years back, FW actually moved production over to china but then brought it back to the UK supposedly because of counterfeit models sneaking out of the factory and being sold (is it really counterfeit if it is made at the same place by the same guys? Illegally made? Sure..counterfeit... not sure). That obviously didn't stop anyone since FW models are now just bought and recasted anyways. Back when Finecast was introduced and the QA was at its worst, IIRC the US Memphis factory was still in operation and the models were made there (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about that). Even if they're made in the same general facility together, I suspect that the GW and FW casters are not one in the same as the material and methods differ.

Hmm. Interesting. I actually interviewed at the Memphis office a few years ago and the chap there told me that yeah, along with closing down the China factory, they also shut down the Memphis production facilities as well.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:

 heartserenade wrote:
Fiecast made me realize that GW does not care about their customers, so I stopped playing 40k soon after.

BRING BACK METAL. Or use better resin.

Then they will have a price hike to pay for replacing the machines that they threw out and to replace the masters....

And if there is any possible way for them to screw up going back to the old material then GW will find it.

The Auld Grump - bitter? Me? NO! (Well, maybe a little.)

My understanding is that part of the reason the Finecast material was chosen is it could use the same machinery as the metal models. I have approximately zero knowledge of how to cast models, so if one of the experts in here knows if this is possible or not please let me know.

 Dendarien wrote:


My understanding is that part of the reason the Finecast material was chosen is it could use the same machinery as the metal models. I have approximately zero knowledge of how to cast models, so if one of the experts in here knows if this is possible or not please let me know.

I would think so. Some of the models you can get in finecast are exactly the same model as some of the ones that were produced in metal. I wouldn't be surprised if the molds had to be changed, but I doubt it was anything major..

I have current edition biovore and lictors in metal..and those are finecast now.

They would spin cast the metal minatures. You could poor resin into that same machine. It would probably account for why there were so many issues with bubbles. Normally you would gravity pour resin, and maybe vacuum it to remove air bubbles. You wouldn't be able to vacuum molds in a spin caster.

I'm not sure how much longer my luck will hold out with Finecast.

The few figures I've bought have been decent. Nothing bent or broken, a few air bubbles in out of the way spots (or spots I didn't realize they were in until well into painting), and have all been relatively easy to clean.

I've really been wanting to get a Kaldor Draigo figure to paint, but tracking down a metal one has not been easy...

I HATE Finecrap. That is exactly what it is. Crap. I have yet to get a Finecrap model that wasn't bent, missing stuff/details, or require 3+ days of work and cleanup. To top it off it is brittle and breaks easily. What ever Forgeworld does they do it MUCH better, and I don't think it is the same stuff as the Finecrap. Details are sharper for one thing. Also, I find the Forgeworld models have a LOT more details on most of their stuff. I just wish they had better prices. I still can't figure out how GW comes up with their pricing. NO WAY does it cost anywhere near what they charge for it (accounting for MSRP).

Not a big deal for me. I have kept myself from buying even a single Finecast model. I am a painter and modeler first, so every facet of Finecast makes my brain hurt. Every part of Finecast is pants-on-head stupid, from the unbalanced price-vs-metal reasonings, to the fossilized shaving cream they are made out of.

I was perfectly pleased buying my metal Aspect Warriors and Rangers for my Eldar army off Ebay for easily half the price of the Finecast models. Half of them are even the same models.

R.I.P. Finecast. All your competitors are better than you in every way.

Good fething riddance. Can't believe this company ever started selling that trash in the first place, or that it took four years for them to realize it needed to die.

 NorseSig wrote:
NO WAY does it cost anywhere near what they charge for it (accounting for MSRP).

Well...no, of course not. Nothing sells for the cost of raw materials, you're paying for all the work that went into it and also to keep the company going.

That said GW still charges far more than they really should be, so you're not really wrong, the prices defy all reason or explanation and seem to be GW just seeing what they can get away with more than anything else.

FineCast was released with everyone knowing GW was using it as a temp measure. And what was the last Finecast model to come out? The last one I can think of is the Tau Crisis Suit Commander. Which is a couple years old now.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
FineCast was released with everyone knowing GW was using it as a temp measure. And what was the last Finecast model to come out? The last one I can think of is the Tau Crisis Suit Commander. Which is a couple years old now.

So no finecast at all with (from the wiki)

Khorne Daemonkin ISBN TBA March 2015
Harlequins ISBN TBA February 2015
Necrons ISBN 978-1782536079 January 2015
Blood Angels ISBN 978-1782536123 December 2014
Dark Eldar ISBN 978-1782534839 October 2014
Grey Knights ISBN 978-1782533702 August 2014
Space Wolves ISBN 978-1782533818 August 2014
Haemonculus Covens (Dark Eldar) ISBN 978-1782534938 October 2014
Champions of Fenris (Space Wolves) ISBN 978-1782533993 August 2014
Waaagh! Ghazghkull (Orks) ISBN 978-1782534600 July 2014
Orks ISBN 978-1782533290 June 2014Astra Militarum ISBN 978-1782532590 April 2014
Militarum Tempestus ISBN 978-1782533047 April 2014
Imperial Knights ISBN 978-1782532453 March 2014
Legion of the Damned ISBN 978-1782535263 March 2014 (Digital Only Release)
Tyranids ISBN 978-1782531951 January 2014
Inquisition ISBN 978-1782534044 November 2013 (Digital Only Release)
Adepta Sororitas ISBN 978-1782533603 October 2013 (Digital Only Release)
Space Marines ISBN 978-1782530763 September 2013
Eldar ISBN 978-1782532125 June 2013

which were after the Tau? From that list, I'd suspect that orks would be the most likely for a new finecast kit but despite my username here I haven't followed the greenskin model line in years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codex_%28Warhammer_40,000%29

I definitely didn't notice it but frankly I haven't bought almost any 40k stuff for years (ironically since they introduced finecast) until a few months ago when I started picking ecletic things up for conversions and modelling (but not really army building).

Also, I'd point out that all that stuff came out in LESS than two years... wow... and ouch for completionists.

I think Zion is right as far as 40k goes. There were some Hobbit minis still being made in Finecast though weren't there?
edit*unless the Spiritseer is Finecast*

The spiritseer is indeed Finecast, so it might have been the last 40k release.

Spiritseer is finecast, yes.

Ninja'd by 12 seconds!

Finecast wasn't bad per se (QC sucked, of course).

It's not suitable for larger models with a small basis or long thin protruding parts (weapons, antennas etc.). But it's a pleasure to work with a modelling knife (cutting out faces to replace them with something else for example - the lady in my lone gallery pic is a prime example: she still has her hair over/behind the metal skull ). So I'm a bit sad to see this alternative material go.

I emailed GW about this, as there are still a few models I want. They said there were no plans to discontinue Finecast. While I am not going to take that as gospel, GW would be pretty foolish to do away without replacements being available. A good chunk of the 40K stuff is finecast, you know other than Marines, and the amount of lost sales would surely be considered. Right?

 Dryaktylus wrote:
Finecast wasn't bad per se (QC sucked, of course).

Problem is, when it was good it was just okay but when it was bad it was absolutely horrific.

 Dryaktylus wrote:
Finecast wasn't bad per se (QC sucked, of course).

It's not suitable for larger models with a small basis or long thin protruding parts (weapons, antennas etc.). But it's a pleasure to work with a modelling knife (cutting out faces to replace them with something else for example - the lady in my lone gallery pic is a prime example: she still has her hair over/behind the metal skull ). So I'm a bit sad to see this alternative material go.

I don't mean to be rude, but did you just say that "finecast" isn't bad, unless the model in question has a weapon?

I can't think of too many models in the 40K range that would leave as not awful by that standard.

Nocturnus wrote:
I emailed GW about this, as there are still a few models I want. They said there were no plans to discontinue Finecast. While I am not going to take that as gospel, GW would be pretty foolish to do away without replacements being available. A good chunk of the 40K stuff is finecast, you know other than Marines, and the amount of lost sales would surely be considered. Right?

With FC having such a toxic reputation it's possible the labor to make them at this point is more expensive than the sales it generates.

Deadawake1347 wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:
Finecast wasn't bad per se (QC sucked, of course).

It's not suitable for larger models with a small basis or long thin protruding parts (weapons, antennas etc.). But it's a pleasure to work with a modelling knife (cutting out faces to replace them with something else for example - the lady in my lone gallery pic is a prime example: she still has her hair over/behind the metal skull ). So I'm a bit sad to see this alternative material go.

I don't mean to be rude, but did you just say that "finecast" isn't bad, unless the model in question has a weapon?

With 'long and thin' I meant weapons like spears or halberds.

 Dryaktylus wrote:

Deadawake1347 wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:
Finecast wasn't bad per se (QC sucked, of course).

It's not suitable for larger models with a small basis or long thin protruding parts (weapons, antennas etc.). But it's a pleasure to work with a modelling knife (cutting out faces to replace them with something else for example - the lady in my lone gallery pic is a prime example: she still has her hair over/behind the metal skull ). So I'm a bit sad to see this alternative material go.

I don't mean to be rude, but did you just say that "finecast" isn't bad, unless the model in question has a weapon?

With 'long and thin' I meant weapons like spears or halberds.

Except that it doesn't have to be spears and halberds for the wonders of "finecast" to become apparent. Swords and rifles are often long enough to collapse under their own weight.

Or on some models, arms and legs...

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:
I emailed GW about this, as there are still a few models I want. They said there were no plans to discontinue Finecast. While I am not going to take that as gospel, GW would be pretty foolish to do away without replacements being available. A good chunk of the 40K stuff is finecast, you know other than Marines, and the amount of lost sales would surely be considered. Right?

With FC having such a toxic reputation it's possible the labor to make them at this point is more expensive than the sales it generates.

And then there is the issue that finecast has by and large become exclusively direct order only which means it is difficult to find online from retailers and unlikely to be stocked by stores due to the smaller profit margin on direct order items for them. I suspect that has as much of an effect as the horrible QA. I've been working on my first finecast model in a while (and only my 3rd ever iirc) and I couldn't find one at the usual places online.. the warstore, miniature market, coolstuff inc, etc, ebay, or amazon. My local store orders doesn't bother ordering finecast anymore as a standard stock item but they will special order it for you. YMMV obviously and I'm sure someone will chime in with a report of a store they go to that stocks every finecast model but that hasn't been my experience. I guess part of the lesser visual presence recently was due to the simple lack of new FC models that I wasn't aware of. Since I haven't been buying or even looking regularly for years, I just never realized the new finecast model tap was turned off.

It's no surprise really. Plenty of FLGSs will stock the new plastic characters, but the only finecast things I've seen have been box things (like the Techmarine with Servitors) or anything that just hasn't sold at that FLGS that they're just holding onto to fill shelf space.

All told, I wouldn't be surprised if GW sees all of their current Finecast crop as being a big slice of waste that they need to cut off in order to improve their margins.

The question is how that will affect Codices moving forward. Kharn is apparently NOT in the latest Khorne Daemonkin Codex. Could it be that he's being reserved for a Dataslate? Could it be that they simply were intending to keep him for Chaos Marines only?

Or could that be because they're phasing out named characters entirely?

I could really see them getting rid of all the (often situational) named characters in favor of generic Create-Your-Own characters in plastic, like the latest plastic Necron Lord and the Dark Eldar Archon, Haemonculus, and Succubus in plastic, or having specific named characters as part of plastic box sets like Nork Deddog in the Ogryn box.

Deadawake1347 wrote:

Except that it doesn't have to be spears and halberds for the wonders of "finecast" to become apparent. Swords and rifles are often long enough to collapse under their own weight.

Or on some models, arms and legs...

If it only has a thin connection to the rest of the model, yes. As I said, several miniatures are not suitable for finecast which is a massive fault for a standard material that it was meant to be as replacement for metal. Nonetheless it has its advantages for me at the Konvershun Klinik.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:
I emailed GW about this, as there are still a few models I want. They said there were no plans to discontinue Finecast. While I am not going to take that as gospel, GW would be pretty foolish to do away without replacements being available. A good chunk of the 40K stuff is finecast, you know other than Marines, and the amount of lost sales would surely be considered. Right?

With FC having such a toxic reputation it's possible the labor to make them at this point is more expensive than the sales it generates.

You could very well be on to something. I just wonder if they'll make it "direct only". I know the local game store can still get it ( at this point) but I could see them moving it there over simply discontinuing it. But I never thought they'd axe the Specialist Games line and we all know how that went...

 Eldarain wrote:
I think Zion is right as far as 40k goes. There were some Hobbit minis still being made in Finecast though weren't there?
edit*unless the Spiritseer is Finecast*

Forgot that Eldar were after the Tau. Got those backwards. The Eldar had the Ranger character and the Spiritseer in Finecast. But yes, 40k hasn't had Finecast in a long while.