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 pretre wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

Unless it 3-4 Flyrants....can't shoot those

Yeah, but even snap firing, the jetbikes are going to put the hurt on the tyrants.

160 Shots. 160/6 Hit. 160/12 Wound. 13 Wounds before saves. Obviously not every unit will be able to target the same tyrant. edit; Actually, that's what? 3-4 wounds. That's not bad for the flyrant. Get FNP and we're good to go.

Flyrants will probably be one of the best matchups against them.

You're forgetting Farseers on bikes twin-linking all those shots too. 160 shots/6= 26.7 +22.2 => 48.9~50 hits. 25 wounds, 8.3 wounds. Still plenty to kill a flyrant a turn through FNP.


Alternately.......just spread your bikes across the board and don't give them anywhere to land. That's easy enough to do as well.

 pretre wrote:

 Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

Unless it 3-4 Flyrants....can't shoot those

Yeah, but even snap firing, the jetbikes are going to put the hurt on the tyrants.

160 Shots. 160/6 Hit. 160/12 Wound. 13 Wounds before saves. Obviously not every unit will be able to target the same tyrant. edit; Actually, that's what? 3-4 wounds. That's not bad for the flyrant. Get FNP and we're good to go.

Flyrants will probably be one of the best matchups against them.

It's actually 4.125 wounds so that's one dead flyrant if rolling for armour save.

But when you say that, 1080 pts worth shooting into the same model that is 240 pts, then it could be efficient. Especially if you can rock a 2+ cover and believe me you can.

Umm...play Mealstom....
And uh...stop playing against WAAC players.
Oh, Learn to play, bro.
Just buy cheese for your army.
Also, Forge the Narrative!

Did I get them all?
40k is only playable with close groups of like-minded friends. Outside of that I don't see why anyone would play it.

(Edit) To clarify, this new Eldar "dex" or whatever it is, sounds horribly broken and so obviously broken that it wouldn't be enjoyable for me to play as or against. By the looks of it, many agree with that.

 Mr Morden wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Can You save The Galaxy?

HH game incoming!

Or Deathwatch, At this point, who can tell what the hell they're doing....

I guess all the crybabies that whined about Serpent spam are upset with the new Jetbike rules. The lesson here: Be careful what you wish for....

Unlike your mature statement about "crbabies" - or are you just another "WAAC cheesemonger who pretends to win through skill"

Who exactly (apart from people like that ) would welcome new broken units to exploit...............

LOL. I am not sure how you figure that I am a WAAC player from my comment. I guess it's too much to hope for comprehension rather than just reading. The point (because you clearly missed it) was that sometimes it's about the lesser of two evils. Serpent spam was a pain in the ass. But it could be countered. With this new Scatrider ( love that phrase) build and distort weapons becoming D weapons, Serpent Spam doesn't seem so bad.

Wasn't there another thread made specifically to complain about the new Eldar release? Maybe take most of this "discussion" there?

 Redemption wrote:
Enough talk. More pictures!

Wow those look amazing though I am mad that still there no female farseers, autarchs or warlock models in the entire eldar range.

 MWHistorian wrote:
(Edit) To clarify, this new Eldar "dex" or whatever it is, sounds horribly broken and so obviously broken that it wouldn't be enjoyable for me to play as or against. By the looks of it, many agree with that.

The WD preview of it is horribly broken. No idea on the dex yet.

Actually, the Warlock and Farseer models look like they might be female.

The chest doesn't look like how the plastic foot version does.

Nocturnus wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Can You save The Galaxy?

HH game incoming!

Or Deathwatch, At this point, who can tell what the hell they're doing....

I guess all the crybabies that whined about Serpent spam are upset with the new Jetbike rules. The lesson here: Be careful what you wish for....

Unlike your mature statement about "crbabies" - or are you just another "WAAC cheesemonger who pretends to win through skill"

Who exactly (apart from people like that ) would welcome new broken units to exploit...............

LOL. I am not sure how you figure that I am a WAAC player from my comment. I guess it's too much to hope for comprehension rather than just reading. The point (because you clearly missed it) was that sometimes it's about the lesser of two evils. Serpent spam was a pain in the ass. But it could be countered. With this new Scatrider ( love that phrase) build and distort weapons becoming D weapons, Serpent Spam doesn't seem so bad.

Lets see - you start with a Trollish insult that anyone who dares question the balance of the blessed Wave Serpent is a Crybaby and then apparently think that this is somehow what was destined to happen - wo forbid people might want some balance.

So I asked are you that guy or not? Must have stuck a nerve - how many cheese serpents in your army?

You really won't be able to tell under all those robes unless you want some sort of stupid raging heroes style sculpt.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Umm...play Mealstom....
And uh...stop playing against WAAC players.
Oh, Learn to play, bro.
Just buy cheese for your army.
Also, Forge the Narrative!

Did I get them all?
40k is only playable with close groups of like-minded friends. Outside of that I don't see why anyone would play it.

(Edit) To clarify, this new Eldar "dex" or whatever it is, sounds horribly broken and so obviously broken that it wouldn't be enjoyable for me to play as or against. By the looks of it, many agree with that.

I'm not saying you're wrong and it's because of my close group of like minded friends that I'm not worried about it since only I play Eldar and it is typically my 'loaner' army for the others to take a break from theirs. I literally build it as strong as I want and they use it while I have fun with Nids, Blood Angels and now Astral Claws. But if you don't play it, don't want to play it, report on how it 'sounds' instead of playing it, why troll the 40k boards? Why not try to find alternative builds for gentler gaming?

 SharkoutofWata wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Umm...play Mealstom....
And uh...stop playing against WAAC players.
Oh, Learn to play, bro.
Just buy cheese for your army.
Also, Forge the Narrative!

Did I get them all?
40k is only playable with close groups of like-minded friends. Outside of that I don't see why anyone would play it.

(Edit) To clarify, this new Eldar "dex" or whatever it is, sounds horribly broken and so obviously broken that it wouldn't be enjoyable for me to play as or against. By the looks of it, many agree with that.

I'm not saying you're wrong and it's because of my close group of like minded friends that I'm not worried about it since only I play Eldar and it is typically my 'loaner' army for the others to take a break from theirs. I literally build it as strong as I want and they use it while I have fun with Nids, Blood Angels and now Astral Claws. But if you don't play it, don't want to play it, report on how it 'sounds' instead of playing it, why troll the 40k boards? Why not try to find alternative builds for gentler gaming?

There are players who feel that if they are to play a game, it is only enjoyable if they play the most effective list/units possible.

For these people, 40k is clearly the wrong game and hobby. Not that I'm telling them where to spend their money; I'm just saying that in all likelihood, they'll enjoy something else more.

EVERY game is most enjoyable when playing with close groups of like-minded friends. But really, except the odd tournament.. why would you want anything else.

I think...with all the dread and horror surrounding Eldar at the mo (and on paper, for good reason), it's best if I leave Dakka for a while and wait until the Codex is released so I know what we're dealing with here

Just to retain a bit of sanity, if anything.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Umm...play Mealstom....
And uh...stop playing against WAAC players.
Oh, Learn to play, bro.
Just buy cheese for your army.
Also, Forge the Narrative!

Did I get them all?
40k is only playable with close groups of like-minded friends. Outside of that I don't see why anyone would play it.

(Edit) To clarify, this new Eldar "dex" or whatever it is, sounds horribly broken and so obviously broken that it wouldn't be enjoyable for me to play as or against. By the looks of it, many agree with that.

Have to agree. I quit 40k in favour for Infinity a while ago and have sold off most of my armies. 40k rules are horribly bloated and I needed a lie down after every game, and that after weeks of back and forth between my group of gaming buddies before we could even agree on what rules to play [if we could agree at all]. It just stopped being fun or workable, even within a group of 'like minded friends'.

As well as obviously really strong codexes like this one, my biggest issue would be learning all of the new rules for different armies so I had a chance playing against them. I haven't played for about 6 months and already it seems like it would be really daunting to get back into 40k what with all the new codexes/supplements etc.

With Infinity I take my copy of Operation Icestorm to my friend's house. One small box, 10 minutes to set up, no rules debates, tight ruleset, rules in one place [or freely downloadable]. Games last about 30 mins. Armies are balanced. Fun times again.

With Saim-Hann being one of my main armies for years I was awaiting a bit more from this release. The new Jetbikes are great, a well-done update of the 1994 model. Also the Farseer/Warlock kit looks nice. But after all these years, there is no multipart, versatile Jetbike Warlocks-Kit like the Ravenwing Bikers? No Shining Spears plastic kit (only finecast)?

With their inhouse-production they cannot make one more sprue for Jetbike-Warlocks and one for the Shining Spears and sell each in a box with the new Jetbike Guardians for eg 45 EUR? I am - at the moment - really disappointed about this. How many years until those two will get dedicated 3-model kits?

And instead of this a Clampack set? 78 EUR for 3 Warlocks? That's madness

I really love all things Eldar - I have 20k+ of them - but this is making me quite worried how long it will take GW to upgrade the entire Eldar range to plastic - if ever. The Aspect Warriors (in metal) are really good models thanks to their excellent sculpts and can stand the test of time. But the rest of the Jetbike units - being more fragile/unstable on their bases than the infantry - would have really benefitted from proper plastic kits.

It's truly a bummer...

Not those fething Scatterlasers on each Jetbike...

Just saying

 Mr Morden wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Nocturnus wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
Can You save The Galaxy?

HH game incoming!

Or Deathwatch, At this point, who can tell what the hell they're doing....

I guess all the crybabies that whined about Serpent spam are upset with the new Jetbike rules. The lesson here: Be careful what you wish for....

Unlike your mature statement about "crbabies" - or are you just another "WAAC cheesemonger who pretends to win through skill"

Who exactly (apart from people like that ) would welcome new broken units to exploit...............

LOL. I am not sure how you figure that I am a WAAC player from my comment. I guess it's too much to hope for comprehension rather than just reading. The point (because you clearly missed it) was that sometimes it's about the lesser of two evils. Serpent spam was a pain in the ass. But it could be countered. With this new Scatrider ( love that phrase) build and distort weapons becoming D weapons, Serpent Spam doesn't seem so bad.

Lets see - you start with a Trollish insult that anyone who dares question the balance of the blessed Wave Serpent is a Crybaby and then apparently think that this is somehow what was destined to happen - wo forbid people might want some balance.

So I asked are you that guy or not? Must have stuck a nerve - how many cheese serpents in your army?

LOL. Struck a nerve? Hardly. I think anyone that gets all butthurt and upset about a game with little toy soldiers needs to have their head checked. Hence why I call them crybabies. As for me, I am more of a fluff guy. My two main armies are Chaos Marines and Dark Eldar. And before you jump to conclusions, again, I own 1 Venom and 1 Heldrake. No spam for this guy. I am sorry you took my comment as "trollish". I am simply tired of listening to people cry about toy soldiers and tanks. If you don't like the direction the game is headed, you don't have to play. There are tons of people on Ebay that will happily buy your stuff. And with that, I say good day sir.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Umm...play Mealstom....
And uh...stop playing against WAAC players.
Oh, Learn to play, bro.
Just buy cheese for your army.
Also, Forge the Narrative!

Did I get them all?
40k is only playable with close groups of like-minded friends. Outside of that I don't see why anyone would play it.

(Edit) To clarify, this new Eldar "dex" or whatever it is, sounds horribly broken and so obviously broken that it wouldn't be enjoyable for me to play as or against. By the looks of it, many agree with that.

Have to agree. I quit 40k in favour for Infinity a while ago and have sold off most of my armies. 40k rules are horribly bloated and I needed a lie down after every game, and that after weeks of back and forth between my group of gaming buddies before we could even agree on what rules to play [if we could agree at all]. It just stopped being fun or workable, even within a group of 'like minded friends'.

As well as obviously really strong codexes like this one, my biggest issue would be learning all of the new rules for different armies so I had a chance playing against them. I haven't played for about 6 months and already it seems like it would be really daunting to get back into 40k what with all the new codexes/supplements etc.

With Infinity I take my copy of Operation Icestorm to my friend's house. One small box, 10 minutes to set up, no rules debates, tight ruleset, rules in one place [or freely downloadable]. Games last about 30 mins. Armies are balanced. Fun times again.

Totally agree. Infinity is a much better game with beautiful models and a low model count.

Not a huge fan of the new farseer/warlock. They just don’t pop out at me. Just sorta OK-ish. I will probably end up picking one up, as I suspect I’ll want another warlock to go with a new bike squad, and it would be nice if they matched. Not sure.

I’ll pick up the codex, but will wait to fully read it before getting more minis.

I also need to see how the warlock council works now. If bike squads can buy warlocks as upgrades, why is there a separate entry? Do they still split off to join squads? Will it be worth it for me to invest in enough bikes/extras to field the new detachment? I hate waiting.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

With Infinity I take my copy of Operation Icestorm to my friend's house. One small box, 10 minutes to set up, no rules debates, tight ruleset, rules in one place [or freely downloadable]. Games last about 30 mins. Armies are balanced. Fun times again.

I have every model ever produced for Infinity -- multiples of some. The problem is, you can finish painting them all up (to an excellent standard) in a few short months, and then what? They don't have a nice release track, so essentially what you get is a boardgame with miniatures, rather than a tabletop wargame or playable collection.

And 30 minutes a game is nice, but if you set aside 5:30pm - 2am with pizza in between for a gaming night....

Warhams-77 wrote:
With Saim-Hann being one of my main armies for years I was awaiting a bit more from this release. The new Jetbikes are great, a well-done update of the 1994 model. Also the Farseer/Warlock kit looks nice. But after all these years, there is no multipart, versatile Jetbike Warlocks-Kit like the Ravenwing Bikers? No Shining Spears plastic kit (only finecast)?

With their inhouse-production they cannot make one more sprue for Jetbike-Warlocks and one for the Shining Spears and sell each in a box with the new Jetbike Guardians for eg 45 EUR? I am - at the moment - really disappointed about this. How many years until those two will get dedicated 3-model kits?

And instead of this a Clampack set? 78 EUR for 3 Warlocks? That's madness

I really love all things Eldar - I have 20k+ of them - but this is making me quite worried how long it will take GW to upgrade the entire Eldar range to plastic - if ever. The Aspect Warriors (in metal) are really good models thanks to their excellent sculpts and can stand the test of time. But the rest of the Jetbike units - being more fragile/unstable on their bases than the infantry - would have really benefitted from proper plastic kits.

It's truly a bummer...

Not those fething Scatterlasers on each Jetbike...

Just saying

I think eldar are in a tough spot because each of the aspects is so distinct from the other you cant really make a kit that covers more than one of them and they are just not going to see the sales that justify 5-6 plastic kits for each aspect. It would be nice but I dont see it happening any time soon.

As to the shining spears it will interesting to see what sort of extra bits are in the warlock/farseer kits. Cool to think about how you might be able to spread the kit and convert up a bunch of kits. Cant wait to see the sprues. Might be that there are enough bits to modify the eldar guardians to a suitable extend. There are no shortage of excellent spear bits in other ranges that could be combined with the kit to make excellent shining spears.

Either way I am waiting to see the full dex, rules and context for everything, I have hope that it is wrong but right now I am operating from a place of skepticism.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

With Infinity I take my copy of Operation Icestorm to my friend's house. One small box, 10 minutes to set up, no rules debates, tight ruleset, rules in one place [or freely downloadable]. Games last about 30 mins. Armies are balanced. Fun times again.

If you're saying "tight ruleset" in regards to Infinity, you and I have a VERY different definition of "tight ruleset".

And 30 minutes for a game? What are you guys playing, 100 points and no objectives?

True, Leth there is indeed a spare head and a spare weapon in the Farseer/Warlock clampack (I read the WD) so we can make the other option using one of the new Guardian Jetbikes and greenstuff the clothing. But it is when comparing it with let's say the excellent Slaanesh Hellstriders kit which has tons of spare bits on three sprues, containing 5 cavalry models, for less money, it's really disappointing :(

 Talys wrote:

I have every model ever produced for Infinity -- multiples of some. The problem is, you can finish painting them all up (to an excellent standard) in a few short months, and then what? They don't have a nice release track, so essentially what you get is a boardgame with miniatures, rather than a tabletop wargame or playable collection.

And 30 minutes a game is nice, but if you set aside 5:30pm - 2am with pizza in between for a gaming night....

I'm not sure what you mean by the first part. Infinity re-evaluates profiles of figs apparently every edition and they desculpt figs as well. How is that more of a board game just because they don't resell you a codex every two years? As for the last part.. do all Infinity games only last 30 minutes? I'd expect the ones from the starter box to but there isn't anything stopping you from playing more points per side to lengthen the game and allow more use of your collection. Then there is the actual pizza consumption and shooting the breeze with fellow gamers that in my experience can (enjoyably) suck up alot of that 5:30pm-2am time block.

 Talys wrote:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

With Infinity I take my copy of Operation Icestorm to my friend's house. One small box, 10 minutes to set up, no rules debates, tight ruleset, rules in one place [or freely downloadable]. Games last about 30 mins. Armies are balanced. Fun times again.

I have every model ever produced for Infinity -- multiples of some. The problem is, you can finish painting them all up (to an excellent standard) in a few short months, and then what? They don't have a nice release track, so essentially what you get is a boardgame with miniatures, rather than a tabletop wargame or playable collection.

And 30 minutes a game is nice, but if you set aside 5:30pm - 2am with pizza in between for a gaming night....

How does a slower release schedule make it less of a tabletop Wargame. (Game being the key word there)
Also, maybe they can...I don't know...play more than one game?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

With Infinity I take my copy of Operation Icestorm to my friend's house. One small box, 10 minutes to set up, no rules debates, tight ruleset, rules in one place [or freely downloadable]. Games last about 30 mins. Armies are balanced. Fun times again.

If you're saying "tight ruleset" in regards to Infinity, you and I have a VERY different definition of "tight ruleset".

And 30 minutes for a game? What are you guys playing, 100 points and no objectives?

Yeah, I wasn't going to argue the point because it's irrelevant -- games with fewer models are quicker the games with more models -- but you are right that infinity isn't s 30 minute game.

Either way, I just don't understand the draw of miniature games that don't use a lot of miniatures (and terrain). I mean, computer games are just so much more efficient if actual models aren't your thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MWHistorian wrote:

How does a slower release schedule make it less of a tabletop Wargame. (Game being the key word there)
Also, maybe they can...I don't know...play more than one game?

Slow release schedule makes it a poor collectible. Small number of available units and cardboard terrain make it closer to a boardgame than a war game.

 Talys wrote:
cardboard terrain

You are aware you can play using non-cardboard terrain correct?

Because that aspect equally applies to 40k.

Your definitions of wargame and boardgame are odd, and I doubt there are many people who agree with your definitions.

Infinity is 100% pure wargame. Your only argument so far seems to be it has a slow release pace and small-ish selection, which is hardly a defining feature of being a wargame.

 Nevelon wrote:
Not a huge fan of the new farseer/warlock. They just don’t pop out at me. Just sorta OK-ish. I will probably end up picking one up, as I suspect I’ll want another warlock to go with a new bike squad, and it would be nice if they matched. Not sure.

I’ll pick up the codex, but will wait to fully read it before getting more minis.

I also need to see how the warlock council works now. If bike squads can buy warlocks as upgrades, why is there a separate entry? Do they still split off to join squads? Will it be worth it for me to invest in enough bikes/extras to field the new detachment? I hate waiting.

Agree.
I also find it somewhat lazy to represent the warlock just by swapping the helmet and run identical monopose robes.
Its juuust not enough pop considering the wait and anticipation for this kit.


Edit: by the way, the teaser for next issue said "forgeworld". Perhaps GW plan to raise the bar a step or two, including forgeworld in the codex, etc. If that is the case, they might have thought this overpowered D stuff and jetbikes (and what else? who knows what buffs they give to serpents!) is just a first codex in super powered forgeworld codexes. ? Just speculating, trying to make sence of what I see.

Pieced together the Eldar Warhost Chart

So I was thinking about this Strength D thing for Eldar. Maybe it's not a str D weapon per se but the new Distort rule.

Meaning that when you roll a six with the new Distort rule you have to roll again for the Strength D profile. If not then you use your normal weapon profile. I think that makes it more balanced for normal 40k.

 adamsouza wrote:
Pieced together the Eldar Warhost Chart

Spoiler:

Someone already posted the full WD page 3 pages ago:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/downloadAttach/216536.page

Welp I own pretty much everything Necron so I suppose its time to vote with my wallet.

Corvus Belli I got the cash if you got the stuff.

For reals:
It just seems silly that they would put out stuff like this into the game. I've been a firm believer that GW does ranging shots to see what they can get away with. Sometimes its units that seem to cost way to much money like dire avengers or op rules and they just see how their fan base will react.

If eldar are going to be this dumb I see them being a success. Sure players will complain but they still will settle for what they get instead of demonstrating they want better. The 40k community spends too much time trying to police itself.