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nedTCM wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:


With the first three you are relying on immobile snipers, with Kroot at 24" and then there's the issue of most of them being BS3 (ratlings BS4), and being far more vulnerable at having no armor, or T2.

With Galvonic Rifles they'll still be able to move and shoot, while having vastly better protections against standard weaponry as well as being able to reliably penetrate armor at AP4, and at 15" being able to double tap.

While not exactly vast in difference, it's still quite better, they are even one point more then ratling's even.

I am not saying they are bad. They sounds pretty cool. I just don't think precision shot is that big of a deal it is just a nice added bonus. Having a decent strength AP4 long range weapon is the pretty awesome.

I see the precision shots as a "nice to have" not a "vital"

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

LordBlades wrote:
Tbh, I feel Skitarii might shake up the meta a bit, given their abundance of Precision Shots.

Squads that rely on 2-3 hard-hitting weapons hidden delivery n a mass of largely worthless bodies like SM Tacticals will struggle vs Skitarii, and a couple of Ballistari will make it difficult for any kind of Deathstars to kerp their ICs alive.

I'm curious how feasible would sniping Grimoire bearers from Daemons armies be.

So basically, it's going to punish everything except Necrons, who are laughing it up to the bank.

A few othetr armies won't care about precision shots much (not only necrons):

-Tau (apart from buffmanders)
- Eldar (unless you're running Seer Council)
- Tyranids

IoM armies would be most affected IMO.

The ballistic skill of a model with precision shots doesn't really matter when it only activates on a 6 anyway. Really, you want a low BS on a Precision Shotter so you have more chance of getting a reroll if you don't get a 6 to hit when you inevitably jimmy Twin Liked onto them.

Much like the Necrons, these guys are designed to shift the meta back towards massed infantry formations, now that everyone has bought all the Knights and Shiny Toys they'll need in the foreseeable future.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The ballistic skill of a model with precision shots doesn't really matter when it only activates on a 6 anyway. Really, you want a low BS on a Precision Shotter so you have more chance of getting a reroll if you don't get a 6 to hit when you inevitably jimmy Twin Liked onto them.

Much like the Necrons, these guys are designed to shift the meta back towards massed infantry formations, now that everyone has bought all the Knights and Shiny Toys they'll need in the foreseeable future.

Just you wait until new Tau codex comes with a Riptide strapped to the chest of a bigger battlesuit :p

I also don't think think providing a few factions with viable infantry will shift the meta as a whole toward infantry, as I see no reason for the other factions to stop fielding their MCs.

LordBlades wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

LordBlades wrote:
Tbh, I feel Skitarii might shake up the meta a bit, given their abundance of Precision Shots.

Squads that rely on 2-3 hard-hitting weapons hidden delivery n a mass of largely worthless bodies like SM Tacticals will struggle vs Skitarii, and a couple of Ballistari will make it difficult for any kind of Deathstars to kerp their ICs alive.

I'm curious how feasible would sniping Grimoire bearers from Daemons armies be.

So basically, it's going to punish everything except Necrons, who are laughing it up to the bank.

A few othetr armies won't care about precision shots much (not only necrons):

-Tau (apart from buffmanders)
- Eldar (unless you're running Seer Council)
- Tyranids

IoM armies would be most affected IMO.

And Chaos in general.

LordBlades wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

LordBlades wrote:
Tbh, I feel Skitarii might shake up the meta a bit, given their abundance of Precision Shots.

Squads that rely on 2-3 hard-hitting weapons hidden delivery n a mass of largely worthless bodies like SM Tacticals will struggle vs Skitarii, and a couple of Ballistari will make it difficult for any kind of Deathstars to kerp their ICs alive.

I'm curious how feasible would sniping Grimoire bearers from Daemons armies be.

So basically, it's going to punish everything except Necrons, who are laughing it up to the bank.

A few othetr armies won't care about precision shots much (not only necrons):

-Tau (apart from buffmanders)
- Eldar (unless you're running Seer Council)
- Tyranids

IoM armies would be most affected IMO.

Tau cares. Ethereals make our infantry work and grant VP for killing. The rangers make it suicidal to Base gun lines around them.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
The ballistic skill of a model with precision shots doesn't really matter when it only activates on a 6 anyway. Really, you want a low BS on a Precision Shotter so you have more chance of getting a reroll if you don't get a 6 to hit when you inevitably jimmy Twin Liked onto them.

Much like the Necrons, these guys are designed to shift the meta back towards massed infantry formations, now that everyone has bought all the Knights and Shiny Toys they'll need in the foreseeable future.

I dunno, Knights aren't exactly going to be push overs for the Skitarii to handle. sure you'll be able to handle em but a Knight'd proably be able to handle it's points worth of admech.


those arc rifles only have a 24 inch range, if you can't handle that with an Imperial Knight you're doing something wrong. a well played Knight Paladin will BUTCHER a squad of Skiritarii

 BoomWolf wrote:

LordBlades wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

LordBlades wrote:
Tbh, I feel Skitarii might shake up the meta a bit, given their abundance of Precision Shots.

Squads that rely on 2-3 hard-hitting weapons hidden delivery n a mass of largely worthless bodies like SM Tacticals will struggle vs Skitarii, and a couple of Ballistari will make it difficult for any kind of Deathstars to kerp their ICs alive.

I'm curious how feasible would sniping Grimoire bearers from Daemons armies be.

So basically, it's going to punish everything except Necrons, who are laughing it up to the bank.

A few othetr armies won't care about precision shots much (not only necrons):

-Tau (apart from buffmanders)
- Eldar (unless you're running Seer Council)
- Tyranids

IoM armies would be most affected IMO.

Tau cares. Ethereals make our infantry work and grant VP for killing. The rangers make it suicidal to Base gun lines around them.

How many times would you field a Tau gunline that:
-Doesn't have a Devilfish in which the Ethereal can hide
-doesn't have a Los blocking terrain nearby to hide the Ethereal behind.

 BoomWolf wrote:

LordBlades wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

LordBlades wrote:
Tbh, I feel Skitarii might shake up the meta a bit, given their abundance of Precision Shots.

Squads that rely on 2-3 hard-hitting weapons hidden delivery n a mass of largely worthless bodies like SM Tacticals will struggle vs Skitarii, and a couple of Ballistari will make it difficult for any kind of Deathstars to kerp their ICs alive.

I'm curious how feasible would sniping Grimoire bearers from Daemons armies be.

So basically, it's going to punish everything except Necrons, who are laughing it up to the bank.

A few othetr armies won't care about precision shots much (not only necrons):

-Tau (apart from buffmanders)
- Eldar (unless you're running Seer Council)
- Tyranids

IoM armies would be most affected IMO.

Tau cares. Ethereals make our infantry work and grant VP for killing. The rangers make it suicidal to Base gun lines around them.

And it's a goodbye to fireblades.

 Toofast wrote:
45-55 points that will be gone before it kills anything against a competent opponent.

Any less survivable than a landspeeder for similar points?

 Co'tor Shas wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:

LordBlades wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

LordBlades wrote:
Tbh, I feel Skitarii might shake up the meta a bit, given their abundance of Precision Shots.

Squads that rely on 2-3 hard-hitting weapons hidden delivery n a mass of largely worthless bodies like SM Tacticals will struggle vs Skitarii, and a couple of Ballistari will make it difficult for any kind of Deathstars to kerp their ICs alive.

I'm curious how feasible would sniping Grimoire bearers from Daemons armies be.

So basically, it's going to punish everything except Necrons, who are laughing it up to the bank.

A few othetr armies won't care about precision shots much (not only necrons):

-Tau (apart from buffmanders)
- Eldar (unless you're running Seer Council)
- Tyranids

IoM armies would be most affected IMO.

Tau cares. Ethereals make our infantry work and grant VP for killing. The rangers make it suicidal to Base gun lines around them.

And it's a goodbye to fireblades.

Fireblades true. Forgot about that. They're worth way less if you hide them out of LOS like ypu would with an Ethereal.

When I saw the skitarii, an image popped immediately into my head:

LordBlades wrote:



How many times would you field a Tau gunline that:
-Doesn't have a Devilfish in which the Ethereal can hide
-doesn't have a Los blocking terrain nearby to hide the Ethereal behind.

No kidding, the only time Ive seen Tau take ethereals in a competitive scene was space pope behind an bastion and my buddies ethereal that never left the devil fish and scooted around giving bonuses. Plus what competitive tau player isn't running a buffmander attached to some monstrosity of a unit? Missilesides and a buffmander are auto win against many people. Got 10 rangers? That's cool, I have 24 missiles that ignore cover, your armour and ignore your FNP and can target 4 separate units.

 Ravenous D wrote:

LordBlades wrote:



How many times would you field a Tau gunline that:
-Doesn't have a Devilfish in which the Ethereal can hide
-doesn't have a Los blocking terrain nearby to hide the Ethereal behind.

No kidding, the only time Ive seen Tau take ethereals in a competitive scene was space pope behind an bastion and my buddies ethereal that never left the devil fish and scooted around giving bonuses. Plus what competitive tau player isn't running a buffmander attached to some monstrosity of a unit? Missilesides and a buffmander are auto win against many people. Got 10 rangers? That's cool, I have 24 missiles that ignore cover, your armour and ignore your FNP and can target 4 separate units.

C'mon, Tau are no Eldar; Waveserpents kill all.

SGTPozy wrote:


C'mon, Tau are no Eldar; Waveserpents kill all.

Wave serpents are only a problem for people that are either bad at the game or refuse to step up their game. That same missileside unit + buffmander unit can trash 2 serpents a turn, or cripple 4 a turn by stunning and shaking them.

The skittari codex, even without what the ad mech codex might bring, has a lot of powerful options in it to counter various things in the current meta.

It's glaring weakness is transports from what we have seen so far.

It has the ability to reduce cover saves by up to 2 from shooting, which is fairly potent, it has a lot of ways to create units that generate extra hits/wounds to be anti horde, it has lots of options for haywire. It has lots of options for ap2/ap3 weapons.

One of the units basic weapons is 30" ap 4 precision shots. The Other is s3 but 6s auto wound anything and cause 2 wounds. So far all the things are quite inexpensive pointswise.

The 55pt walker has a gun that is twin linked 48" s7 ap4 2 shots and fires Snap shots (overwatch and against flyers) at BS2 instead of 1. an unit of 4 of these is 220pts. It puts out 8 shots, against flyers it will score on average 4 str7 hits a turn of shooting. As a standalone unit this is one of the best, if not best, anti air units that is ground based in the game- and it doesn't cost much.

The Skittarri have the ability to counter a pentyrant list rather easily, and not be really hurt for doing so, they can counter knights, hordes, just about anything depending on how they are built. They are a very powerful shooting army, but unlike tau can put up a fight in assault.

I actually see them being one of the new top tier armies when allied with a CAD of any astartes to pick up transports. many of the units can get 2 haywire weapons per 5 models, and the character can get haywire pistol/haywire melee weapons + drop pod= profit.

Of course I would wait to see if they have transport options, of if ad mech brings any other transport options.

blaktoof wrote:
and it doesn't cost much.

Tell that to the wallet

But yeah what will make or break this army is the transport. though we have quite a LOT of options so long as they are BBBFFs with the rest of the imperium.

 Desubot wrote:

blaktoof wrote:
and it doesn't cost much.

Tell that to the wallet

But yeah what will make or break this army is the transport. though we have quite a LOT of options so long as they are BBBFFs with the rest of the imperium.

yeah sorry I think the army will be top tier, but do not plan on buying any of it other than the e-codex. So was not thinking about the wallet.

The competitive builds from this list with meta counters will need ballistii walkers for anti FMC/flyer and those are not inexpen$ive. Like mek guns, they cost more in most currencies than their points.

LordBlades wrote:

Just you wait until new Tau codex comes with a Riptide strapped to the chest of a bigger battlesuit :p

LOL

C'mon GW, make it happen!

Murrdox wrote:

LordBlades wrote:

Just you wait until new Tau codex comes with a Riptide strapped to the chest of a bigger battlesuit :p

LOL

C'mon GW, make it happen!

Im waiting for the formation where you take 5 riptides that suddenly transforms into voltron

"And I'll form the head"

 Egregious wrote:
When I saw the skitarii, an image popped immediately into my head:

Spoiler:

Funny, I thought the pilot reminded me more of,

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:


Funny, I thought the pilot reminded me more of,
*Stupid Friggin South Park Picture. Deleted for all our sake.*

It's not funny. It wasn't funny the first time someone put that damn picture in reference and it wasn't funny when you did it as the twelfth person. If a joke is obvious, don't make the joke. It has been done before and it's just not funny.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:


Funny, I thought the pilot reminded me more of,
*Stupid Friggin South Park Picture. Deleted for all our sake.*

It's not funny. It wasn't funny the first time someone put that damn picture in reference and it wasn't funny when you did it as the twelfth person. If a joke is obvious, don't make the joke. It has been done before and it's just not funny.

Woooooow you must have a lot of friends...





Anyway returning to topic: I think people are seriously underestimating the utility of those fast walkers for Maelstrom missions. You can't discount the utility of really speedy walkers that are pretty much immune to most normal infantry fire.

I think all the walkers the skitt have access to are pretty amazing. They make my killa kans look like oscar the grouch in a garbage can and cost less.

They are HP2 and AV11 and yes they can get blown the f--- up, but they are cheap. You can get 3-4 of them for the cost of most vehicles. As a squadron their coherency is 4" so blasts aren't going to hit more than one most likely. Yeah someone can blow most of their army alpha striking your walkers, and they may kill many of them, but two units of four walkers is a whopping total of ~420pts. There is a good chance you can get cover for them, and the dragoon even comes with built in 5+ cover. I wouldnt bother upgrading ballista, and the dragoon I would just take a few with phosphor serpenta and keep the rest with tasers (4 WS4 S8 attacks on the charge at I6 and any 6s to hit cause 2 more hits? and if the phosphors wounded or glanced anything I can reroll charge distance and it charges 2d6+3 ? yes pls) if there is a doctrine imperative that gives them rending, armorbane, rerolls to hit, anything ontop of that- it would just be ridiculous. An unit of 4, with 2 stock and 2 with serpenta phosphor for 200pts. On the charge they will have 16 attacks, odds are you will roll 2-3 6s for 4-6 more hits. So looking at on average versus a vehicle with no WS causing 15-17 s8 hits. Sounds pretty good to me.

Just for giggles lets double the amount of dragoons and consider 1 knight as the target. If they charge =32 attacks, 16 hits of which 2-3 will be 6s so 20-22 s8 hits on a knight. SO even if for some reason all the haywire you could possibly take isn't enough to wreck a knight two squads of 4 dragoons charging a knight (9" move + 2d6+3" charge [as fast as a knight can charge something btw]) will cause on average 20-22 hits. Lets just say 21, and guess what, 1/3rd of those will hurt AV13 so you just did 9 hp on average charging a knight at I6 and the knight doesn't get to strike back. Of course Skittari will probably be better haywire knights down, but having some units that are able to completely wreck a knight in 1 charge before the knight strikes on an average roll nearby your units will make a knight think twice about advancing on you.

The average squad of melta-sternguard is 255pts with drop pod. Two of those [510pts] dropping in on 8 walkers as an 'alpha strike' would not kill all 8 on average[total 10 melta shots, 7 hits, 5 will roll a 3+ to have an effect will most likely lose 2-3 walkers if no covers saves 1,2 if 5+ cover], and will probably die horribly next round. Smoke on that while you consider your options for killing your opponents alpha strike with your vanguard/rangers and remaining walkers+ friends.

The dragoons I think are going to be great in lists ($$$ cost aside). AV 11 is actually a sweet spot as makes them immune to almost all small arms fire and requires your opponent to use dedicated anti-tank which is likley overkill. For their point cost this is a great value on the field. In combat those str.8 lances will annihilate vehicles and are super quick flankers.

Now imagine them running cover for Penitent Engines...

blaktoof wrote:
They make my killa kans look like oscar the grouch in a garbage can and cost less.

Let's put it this way. Killa kanz are hard to not be made look like garbage for their point cost.

 thegreatchimp wrote:

 Toofast wrote:
45-55 points that will be gone before it kills anything against a competent opponent.

Any less survivable than a landspeeder for similar points?

Yes, the land speeder gets a jink save. How many land speeders have you seen on top tables at GTs? I can count them on one hand.

 Toofast wrote:

 thegreatchimp wrote:

 Toofast wrote:
45-55 points that will be gone before it kills anything against a competent opponent.

Any less survivable than a landspeeder for similar points?

Yes, the land speeder gets a jink save. How many land speeders have you seen on top tables at GTs? I can count them on one hand.

And the meleestrider has a permanent 5+ cover save without needing to jink. your point?

I am sick of people coming with statements it dies therefor its useless".

EVERYTHING dies. and when something is so damn CHEAP you don't even care it dies.

The striders are decent. not WS OP that will win turnies by themselves, but good enough to be noteworthy, and be an option of what to field.

45-55 point models need not be indestructible, they need to take more effort to kill than 3-4 handful of marines, and they do. they also provide better firepower/punch. then what's the damn problem?

Dreads take more effort to kill than the equivalent points in tac marines and can put out as much firepower and they're so awful that nobody fields them any more.