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As title. What army do you think is the best at dropping flyers and FMCs? At a cursory glance it would seem that Tau are the most talked about in this regard, but SM armies having Contemptor Dreads seem like they have the capability as well.

For some reason it strikes me that most flyers (at least the ones that aren't Flyrants) are actually quite poor at dropping other Flyers as well.

Tau are indeed the best at dropping flyers. Not only because the volume of skyfire they can have, but the wargear item the gives a unit Tank Hunters or Monster hunter (I forget the name).

Most flyers are actually poor at taking out other Flyers, with a few exceptions, like the Eldar Crimson hunter, or Necron Night Scythes. Both of those flyers have the volume of high str shots to take out most other flyers.

A StormRaven may also be a good choice if equipped w/ TL-Lascannon & TL-Multimelta

sm's are superior there's a reason we don't see much flyer spam and they are that reason between the deredeo, contempts, skyhammers, and the stalker flakk gun there isn't much they can't bring down if they saw it coming. they have the largest quantity of good options for dealing with air power of any kind or quality. The tau have good quality anti air but lack the ability to bring it in bulk to the point where it would be threatening to serious hardcore flyer spam.

I would say the biggest difference between Tau anti-air and SM anti-air is that most of the Tau anti-air can be used efficently against other units.

Whereas SM anti-air units either have to resort to Forgworld, or units that I have NEVER seen in person (like the stalker). So while I agree that SM technically have more, you will see more of the Tau's anti-air on the battlefield

From memory I think Tau have more Inteceptor to actually deal with the Flyer (either destroying with TL weight of fire or causing it to Jink)

Well Tyranids can own the skies pretty handily. Tau with heavy AA can ruin their day, but no army has more AA built into a god Take All Comers list than Nids due to the Flyrant

Tau with mass interceptor can really ruin flyers.

Because with other armies, if they don't have interceptor, then the flyer will at least get a turn in to shoot.

But Tau interceptor means that the flyers don't even get a turn of shooting before they are forced to jink or are blown out of the sky. You get a few good reserve rolls and start putting your flyers on the table, the opponent rolls some dice, and you take your models off the table.

On to movement phase, sans flyers.

When it comes to shooting tau are generally going to be the best at it if they are able to prep for it. A good amount of a tau players aa is optional. Most of their TAC lists really aren't that great at aa, but give them the chance to prep for it and they will wreck you.

I agree with Luke that Tyranids have good AA with Flyrants, maybe even the best Air-based AA with TL S6 shots, Psychic Powers and high strength Vector Strikes (S8 with the Hive Crone, S10 with the Harridan)

From a grounded perspective though, my vote still goes to Tau. Broadsides w/ interceptor, HBC Riptides with ECPA, Skyrays...I think they take the cake, especially with the Ignore Cover weapons they have

One 3 suit team of broadsides with HYMP and SMS puts out - 12 TL St7 AP4 shots at 36" and 12 TL St5 Ap5 shots with ignore cover and no line of site needed at 36" for less than 200pts

So thats 24 TL shots coming at a flier in range. Granted for those points you don't have interceptor or skyfire but the volume of fire will kill everything. For very little, you give each model skyfire or interceptor.

So yeah, Tau wins the AA race.

Velocity Trackers(the support system that allows Tau units the choice go have Skyfire each time they shoot) are actually pretty pricey on a per suit basis but Early Warning Override, which gives Intetceptor, is ridiculously cheap. EWO is nearly always worth taking.

CSM actually can do it well. Between the Fire Raptor and Hell Blades, they can own the skies.
Unlike SM or Tau, they can easily bring those units in a TAC list without overcommitting to AA.

 Galef wrote:
I would say the biggest difference between Tau anti-air and SM anti-air is that most of the Tau anti-air can be used efficently against other units.

Whereas SM anti-air units either have to resort to Forgworld, or units that I have NEVER seen in person (like the stalker). So while I agree that SM technically have more, you will see more of the Tau's anti-air on the battlefield

I disagree, i think SM have excellent main codex choices for anti-air that are flexible. Stalkers can target skimmers (so good vs tau/eldar/DE as well as the dreaded flyrants), and can potentially threaten two targets. At the least if you force them to jink you're reducing their damage output (you get *8* shots in dual-targets mode... at S7!)

Stormtalons are effective anti-air (twin-linked assault cannon, skyhammer) and also have strafing run, so can really threaten ground targets. BS5 twin-linked means you rarely miss with all those lovely S6 and S7 shots.

Stormwolf is arguably the best all around flyer. I believe it is the only flyer with a turret mounted weapon, and S8 ap1 is no joke. Also sporting a twin linked lascannon and 2 twin linked multimeltas if I remember right. Its expensive, but with PotMs you can blast up quite a lot each turn.

 gwarsh41 wrote:
Stormwolf is arguably the best all around flyer. I believe it is the only flyer with a turret mounted weapon, and S8 ap1 is no joke. Also sporting a twin linked lascannon and 2 twin linked multimeltas if I remember right. Its expensive, but with PotMs you can blast up quite a lot each turn.

The Stormtalon’s chin turret is 360, and the top mount of the Stormraven is also a turret, but due to the derpy air scoop behind it, lacks all-around coverage.

Both are solid flyers, and work well for both anti-air and anti-tank work.

The absolute best unit to take down a single flyer in the game (afaik) is a sicaran with battle of sarosh. 6 bs4 tl st7 ap4 shots with; rending, ignores jink, skyfire, interceptor, tank hunter and night vision (because why not?). That will annihilate almost any flyer in one round of shooting.

Causes an average of 2.96hps of damage against any av12 flyer without an invuln. 1.48 of those hps being pen/s on average.

 Galef wrote:
Tau are indeed the best at dropping flyers. Not only because the volume of skyfire they can have, but the wargear item the gives a unit Tank Hunters or Monster hunter (I forget the name).

Most flyers are actually poor at taking out other Flyers, with a few exceptions, like the Eldar Crimson hunter, or Necron Night Scythes. Both of those flyers have the volume of high str shots to take out most other flyers.

A StormRaven may also be a good choice if equipped w/ TL-Lascannon & TL-Multimelta

Vendetta is also great at killing other flyers.

So in other words, flyers are poor at taking out flyers, except the IG flyer, the SM flyer, the Eldar flyer, and the Necron flyer?

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
So in other words, flyers are poor at taking out flyers, except the IG flyer, the SM flyer, the Eldar flyer, and the Necron flyer?

SW refrigerator doesn't seem to be worse than SM counterpart either, so...

 Galef wrote:
I would say the biggest difference between Tau anti-air and SM anti-air is that most of the Tau anti-air can be used efficently against other units.

That, I feel, is the most important part. The best AA is IMO the one that can be adequate against heavy airforce while not becoming a waste if your opponents doesn't bring one. In this regard SM FW options are pretty OK though, if a bit pricey in all regards. Somehow I feel that's the main problem about those.

Oh, and thanks FW for finally taking their time and amending Helical Targeting Array rules, they were causing a schizophrenic mess before.

Best is dependant on what it's against but the best I've played or played against are:

Ig - vendetta from codex is amazing ranged aa, vulture vs av11 is lethal particularly with vector dance to get rear ends. The avenger is also ok but no tw and crappy bs let's it down a little but all three are cheap. 170, 155 and 150


Sw are good and prob the best flyer but price limits the number in a single list

Crons are good through numbers, cheap dedicated transport flyers are the envy of many people

Tau, lots of skyfire makes me sad